Virtanen injured?

[mbal23]

Brutal giveaways tend to do that to most coaches.

If you'd have bothered to read the posts before yours or maybe watched the game, you'd have seen he was benched for turnovers, making your post irrelevent.

http://canucks.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2015010076

Get wrecked... oldnews coming in with the stats sheet, 0 giveaways.

[mbal23]

I think that's why they tried McCann at wing.

I think Coach GG said he hadn't been playing how they wanted him to at center so they put him on the wing to get him going and moved him back to center when he was playing better. Seems they just wanted him to be a bit more free to get some confidence before getting back to center.

[tyhee]

You actually hear this somewhere or you just talking out of your ass?

I haven't been part of this discussion but this and the post saying Virtanen was benched for turnovers made me go back tot he previously linked Province article at http://blogs.theprov...tons-best-yet/#.

It clearly says Virtanen was benched. It doesn't specificallyl say what he was benched for (turnovers not mentioned) but when Gulutzan is quoted talking about him being able to get away with things in the junior game that talking about being more careful when Thornton and Pavelski are out there pretty clearly it was about his play.

From the blog posting in the Province linked to above:

"Jake Virtanen was benched.

Virtanen didn’t play the last nine minutes of the game and he was not hurt. Uh-oh.

Off night for the Canucks prospect or sign of things to come? Virtanen is going to get NHL games. The regular season ones. Unless something unforeseen happens.

Like, for one, people start realizing McCann is better.

How many? Depends on him.

Virtanen has hit people and even scored. There have definitely been some good times. Tuesday was not among them.

He did not play well with the puck and a stacked Sharks team was more than eager to exploit it.

“He’s still learning,” Gulutzan said. “In the junior game you can get away with some things. Here, it’s about teaching them when you can try things and when you can’t.

“When Big Joe and Little Joe — Thornton and Pavelski — are out there, you got to be a little more careful.

“They’ll learn that as they go.”

When NHL coaches say junior players are playing a junior game, it is never good."

[Rey]

Why isn't anyone here telling it like it is? Jake Virtanen doesn't deserve a spot on the team and should go back to junior. If he wasn't a top pick, no one would even consider him to be in the lineup. McCaan and Gaunce deserve it over he does.

The guy that says Virtanen has nothing to learn is a idiot. Virtanen has done absolutely nothing in comparison to any prospect to prove that he's NHL ready other than the fact that he's more physical matured than most. His scoring has been lackluster and hasn't proven that he can put up big goal totals since his draft year. There's lots for Virtanen to prove. His offensive game and his defensive game needs major work. The guy is relying on his physicality and his speed to get to where he is. That is a recipe for disaster. If you don't refine his game, he may never figure it out offensively and if he doesn't. That's a 6th overall pick for a bottom six grinder. He doesn't have the hockey IQ for a McCaan, Gaunce, or a Horvat to figure it out. He didn't produce at all when he was with Utica last year. Why do people think, he's all of a sudden going to figure it out in the NHL? If you followed him in junior, Virtanen actually got demoted with the Hitman months before the season ended.

The problem is, everyone assumed Virtanen was given a roster spot even before training camp begin because Benning said it and the expectations became high. Virtanen, himself, on the other hand has done nothing to prove himself.

I, too, want to see the kid play in the NHL. This season is going to be a terrible and frustrating year and the only thing to make the Canucks entertaining are going to be the top prospects but if Virtanen makes it over the other kids Gaunce and McCaan. It's due to politics. In no way has Virtanen proven that he deserves a spot over those two. He should be the next one sent down. Virtanen should work on putting up numbers in junior like he was suppose to do last year. McCaan proved a LOT last year. His production went up, and he even played a defensive role to boot. His team went far in the OHL until his team got knocked out by McDavid's team. Gaunce should have made the canucks last year and they converted him to LW last year and he was absolutely clutch during the AHL playoffs and would fit the 4th line perfectly. Both McCaan and Gaunce are known for their high hockey IQ and right now, are both proving that they can adjust to faster pace games. McCaan is impressing even when he's a twig. It says much more about the Virtanen, who's only here based on his physicality and speed alone.

[Butters Stoch]

^

Well said. It's pretty obvious cdc is afraid of criticizing a guy we drafted with a 6th overall pick right now but lets not kid ourselves, he's still got a long way to go and we're in a rebuild so we could take our time with him.

[CanucksJay]

I liked Virtanen's game overall. He's big, skates fast and makes hits but also has the ability to snipe.

I think he needs to simplify his game if he wants to stay up with the big club. I don't know why last nights stat sheet shows 0 giveaways but I remember at least 2 giveaways where he made a low percentage cross ice pass just outside of his blue line. I think this comes from trying to generate too much and trying to be too creative. He needs to stick with meat and potatoes style north south game if he wants to stay up.

Play a mistake free game like Horvat did and make the high percentage plays and make the hits when it's there.

Horvat didn't make the team because of his offence. When he made the team, he played a very simple and positionally sound game without generating much offence. It was only in the 2nd half when he started doing more after gaining the coach's confidence. Virtanen needs to do the same. Only take what's there and every now and then, he might get a good opportunity in the offensive zone and hopefully he capitalizes on those chances but right now, for him to make the team, do the simple things right like chip the puck off the boards and out, dump it in and chase hard after it and lay a hit. Carry the puck with speed through the outside while protecting the puck with his body. So this means, don't try to make a 40 foot cross ice pass even though it's not in the danger zone. Don't try to deke through 3 defenders.

I think if he just keeps it simple, he would still be an upgrade over guys like Higgins and Hansen because he has 3 additional assets that they don't have. Shooting ability, size, ability to hit hard.

He's already ahead of Vey, Kenins, Prust, and Dorsett in my books.

[Rey]

I liked Virtanen's game overall. He's big, skates fast and makes hits but also has the ability to snipe.

I think he needs to simplify his game if he wants to stay up with the big club. I don't know why last nights stat sheet shows 0 giveaways but I remember at least 2 giveaways where he made a low percentage cross ice pass just outside of his blue line. I think this comes from trying to generate too much and trying to be too creative. He needs to stick with meat and potatoes style north south game if he wants to stay up.

Play a mistake free game like Horvat did and make the high percentage plays and make the hits when it's there.

Horvat didn't make the team because of his offence. When he made the team, he played a very simple and positionally sound game without generating much offence. It was only in the 2nd half when he started doing more after gaining the coach's confidence. Virtanen needs to do the same. Only take what's there and every now and then, he might get a good opportunity in the offensive zone and hopefully he capitalizes on those chances but right now, for him to make the team, do the simple things right like chip the puck off the boards and out, dump it in and chase hard after it and lay a hit. Carry the puck with speed through the outside while protecting the puck with his body. So this means, don't try to make a 40 foot cross ice pass even though it's not in the danger zone. Don't try to deke through 3 defenders.

I think if he just keeps it simple, he would still be an upgrade over guys like Higgins and Hansen because he has 3 additional assets that they don't have. Shooting ability, size, ability to hit hard.

He's already ahead of Vey, Kenins, Prust, and Dorsett in my books.

I like this post because this is a perfect example of a casual fan, who doesn't know how to determine whether a player is good or not. All you pay attention to, is the flash. You have no idea how defensive hockey works.

Bo Horvat had been playing a defensive style shut down role for the London Knight's since he was in junior. He was even playing a shutdown role in the WJR. The guy was always known for his reliability and always had questions about his skating and offensive game.

Virtanen is the complete opposite. He's known for his speed and physical ability. Nothing more. Virtanen doesn't know better and that's why there's a hell lot more he can learn in junior. People say he can snipe, but he didn't put the numbers up to prove it. He even played with the Twins a few games ago, and the Twins told Virtanen to play a cycle game but Virtanen only knows how to play one style. Dump and chase, and casuals don't release that he's always out of position. It's the same reason why Kenin was scratched last year despite putting up numbers. Virtanen has always scrutinized because he has low hockey IQ. He was demoted off the top line and top PP in junior because of his play style didn't mesh well for any of his teammates. Now, he's not a center so it's okay that guys like Horvat, Gaunce(Who actually is a LW now) and McCaan are miles and miles ahead in hockey IQ, but if Virtanen wants to be more than a bottom six guy, he'll have to learn and figure how to adapt like Gaunce has.

Higgins and Hansen may suck offensively but will always be in this league because of their reliability and you need that if you want to win. Dorsett and Prust, though he's been through a lot of injuries have proven in the past that they can be reliable defensively too. Virtanen and Kenins(lesser extent) are still ways away from that. Scoring is great and all but teams these days are so smart, they can single out every weak spot on the team and it just takes that one costly mistake to change the outcome of a game.

[Baggins]

He honestly hasn't shown enough to get a roster spot, but that being said i'm sure he gets his 9 games.

I don't even see him getting the nine games.

[alfstonker]

I don't even see him getting the nine games.

I agree.

We are at the sharp end of pre season now where I would imagine management are weighing up what would be gained from certain prospects getting the 9 games. Sadly in Jake's case I don't think it would be much.

For me at any rate he just doesn't yet fully understand the game. He needs to get a lot more coaching (sadly for him, it won't be from Green)

Gaunce, McCann and Hutton might get 9 games. However adding Hutton will give the Canucks real problems if he continues to excel because of the side he plays on.

Corrado hasn't impressed but I actually think he will when the season starts in earnest. Beiga looks good but he will go back to Utica to wait on being called up in an emergency. I really like his game and his tendency to to "take the body when in doubt"

[DownUndaCanuck]

He's physically ready for the NHL but he brings nothing else to the preseason games. Very little offence if any, not the best defensive game but decent back-checking at times. Throwing a big hit is simply not enough to make it full-time in the NHL, you need to bring something else, whether it be NHL-LEVEL PKing, defence or scoring, and Virtanen doesn't bring enough quite frankly.

The same can be said for McCann. While he's looked great ripping goals, his defensive and physical games aren't really up to scratch.

Meanwhile, someone more well-rounded like Gaunce would be suited far better right now. He chipped in a bit of offence this preseason but has also played like a physical bull and has been sound defensively on faceoffs when called into the dot. Gaunce brings a much more well-rounded game than McCann or Virtanen (and obviously due to his age and devleopment), and because of this he deserves Higgins' spot the most.

That being said I think McCann deserves 9 games and Virtanen needs to go back to junior and tear it up offensively. For a 6th overall pick, he simply needs to score more. Much more than a point per game in junior at least.

[tas]

He's physically ready for the NHL but he brings nothing else to the preseason games. Very little offence if any, not the best defensive game but decent back-checking at times. Throwing a big hit is simply not enough to make it full-time in the NHL, you need to bring something else, whether it be NHL-LEVEL PKing, defence or scoring, and Virtanen doesn't bring enough quite frankly.

The same can be said for McCann. While he's looked great ripping goals, his defensive and physical games aren't really up to scratch.

Meanwhile, someone more well-rounded like Gaunce would be suited far better right now. He chipped in a bit of offence this preseason but has also played like a physical bull and has been sound defensively on faceoffs when called into the dot. Gaunce brings a much more well-rounded game than McCann or Virtanen (and obviously due to his age and devleopment), and because of this he deserves Higgins' spot the most.

That being said I think McCann deserves 9 games and Virtanen needs to go back to junior and tear it up offensively. For a 6th overall pick, he simply needs to score more. Much more than a point per game in junior at least.

virtanen has scored over 14% of the canucks goals this preseason, while outscoring daniel, henrik, vrbata, burrows, baertschi and sutter (the projected top 6).

don't you think it's unreasonable to expect a 19 year old rookie to produce when the offensive leaders of the team haven't been either?

[73 Percent]

virtanen has scored over 14% of the canucks goals this preseason, while outscoring daniel, henrik, vrbata, burrows, baertschi and sutter (the projected top 6).

don't you think it's unreasonable to expect a 19 year old rookie to produce when the offensive leaders of the team haven't been either?

your right. lets put him on the top line.

Gaunce mccann virtanen.

Because pre-season.

[tas]

your right. lets put him on the top line.

Gaunce mccann virtanen.

Because pre-season.

not at all the statement i was making.

[Pickly]

virtanen has scored over 14% of the canucks goals this preseason, while outscoring daniel, henrik, vrbata, burrows, baertschi and sutter (the projected top 6).

don't you think it's unreasonable to expect a 19 year old rookie to produce when the offensive leaders of the team haven't been either?

I like Virts and think he will turn out to be a real good player but in all honesty I think he needs to go back to junior and really find that offense he's capable of. It's not at all going to hurt his development. He's got all the tools to play in the NHL this season but you don't want to rush him and have him turn out to be another Colton Gillies.

[73 Percent]

not at all the statement i was making.

your basing a lineup off preseason stats. claiming that virtanen should be on the team because he has a certain amount of goals in preseason. Are you not?

[ice orca]

He's physically ready for the NHL but he brings nothing else to the preseason games. Very little offence if any, not the best defensive game but decent back-checking at times. Throwing a big hit is simply not enough to make it full-time in the NHL, you need to bring something else, whether it be NHL-LEVEL PKing, defence or scoring, and Virtanen doesn't bring enough quite frankly.

The same can be said for McCann. While he's looked great ripping goals, his defensive and physical games aren't really up to scratch.

Meanwhile, someone more well-rounded like Gaunce would be suited far better right now. He chipped in a bit of offence this preseason but has also played like a physical bull and has been sound defensively on faceoffs when called into the dot. Gaunce brings a much more well-rounded game than McCann or Virtanen (and obviously due to his age and devleopment), and because of this he deserves Higgins' spot the most.

That being said I think McCann deserves 9 games and Virtanen needs to go back to junior and tear it up offensively. For a 6th overall pick, he simply needs to score more. Much more than a point per game in junior at least.

McCann actually has been good in all zones including the d-zone. His forecheck has been effective without trying to drive a guy through the boards.

[Baggins]

I like this post because this is a perfect example of a casual fan, who doesn't know how to determine whether a player is good or not. All you pay attention to, is the flash. You have no idea how defensive hockey works.

Bo Horvat had been playing a defensive style shut down role for the London Knight's since he was in junior. He was even playing a shutdown role in the WJR. The guy was always known for his reliability and always had questions about his skating and offensive game.

Virtanen is the complete opposite. He's known for his speed and physical ability. Nothing more. Virtanen doesn't know better and that's why there's a hell lot more he can learn in junior. People say he can snipe, but he didn't put the numbers up to prove it. He even played with the Twins a few games ago, and the Twins told Virtanen to play a cycle game but Virtanen only knows how to play one style. Dump and chase, and casuals don't release that he's always out of position. It's the same reason why Kenin was scratched last year despite putting up numbers. Virtanen has always scrutinized because he has low hockey IQ. He was demoted off the top line and top PP in junior because of his play style didn't mesh well for any of his teammates. Now, he's not a center so it's okay that guys like Horvat, Gaunce(Who actually is a LW now) and McCaan are miles and miles ahead in hockey IQ, but if Virtanen wants to be more than a bottom six guy, he'll have to learn and figure how to adapt like Gaunce has.

Higgins and Hansen may suck offensively but will always be in this league because of their reliability and you need that if you want to win. Dorsett and Prust, though he's been through a lot of injuries have proven in the past that they can be reliable defensively too. Virtanen and Kenins(lesser extent) are still ways away from that. Scoring is great and all but teams these days are so smart, they can single out every weak spot on the team and it just takes that one costly mistake to change the outcome of a game.

I agree with much of what you say except that Higgins and Hansen suck offensively. Higgins' 36 points in 77 games last year puts him right about average production for a second line forward. The average second liner was 38 points. Hansen's 33 points in 81 games is excellent for a third line forward and he spent a good number of games on the fourth line with Horvat.

People need to set their production expectations a tad lower. Last year there were only 5 players in the entire league that hit 80+ points and only 14 others hit the 70+ mark. Nobody hit the 90 point mark for the first time in almost 50 years (excluding lockout shortened seasons). During the "dead puck era" the worst Art Ross winner had 96 points. The days of 100 point 1st liners and 70 point 2nd liners are a thing of the past the way the game is currently played and reffed.

[jdatb]

your right. lets put him on the top line.

Gaunce mccann virtanen.

Because pre-season.

sounds good to me

[tas]

your basing a lineup off preseason stats. claiming that virtanen should be on the team because he has a certain amount of goals in preseason. Are you not?

not in the slightest.

[73 Percent]

not in the slightest.

yeah. Actually misread your post. My bad. Morning eyes.