2nd Line Forechecker?

[Nuxfanabroad]

I've only seen the two reg season tilts.

Concerned about the 4th line, defensively..can Prust keep up? They're three hardworking, gritty guys, but in WD's(roll'em) system, I think it's gonna need a critical look.

No matter how well Virt does, can only imagine 1 of the 2 kids staying, for both lineup & contractual(ELC-stagger)reasons.

By the quarter-pole we should have some clarity..anticipating Gaunce is up with the show.

Daniel - Henrik - Vrbata

Burrows - Bo - Virtanen

Higgins - Sutter - Hansen

Gaunce - Cracker - Dorsett

Baer/ Prust?

Goals are gonna be hard to come by. If we stay healthy, we'll probably need to deal away 1 or 2 fwds, preferably for picks/young D.

In terms of O, think this season will sadly play out like the Torts-season(Sahara-dry). We'll have an Oct-surge perhaps, but reality will be following up.

Organizationally, they've got to blend in some exp'd youth(Gaunce, Grenier, Biega), & continue to flip some of our older core for more teen faces/picks.

[duc_evo]

Sedan with Virtanen on the first.

Keninis Horvat Vrbata on the second line.

Burrows Sutter Hansen

Dorsett McCann Prust

I don't like Sven. I don't know why because stats won't tell you everything about a player but I just don't like the guy. I think is he will demoted soon enough and Keninis or Shinkaruk with flank Horvat's left side to be more affective overall in the middle of this season hopefully.

[aGENT]

J.R.'s original post said in part:

With Baer and Vrbata on Horvat's wings, that line (while skilled) seems to lack a forechecking/board battle presence

to which Crabcakes responded in part:

... I think that Horvat is providing the gristle as it is presently constructed. On the rush, it's probably better for the forechecker to arrive first which is difficult for centres to do.

...

Since they are heading to play the big teams in California, do we see McCann sitting next game? It might be beneficial for him to watch and reflect anyways. This may open the door for the following line up:

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Baertschi Horvat Vrbata

Dorsett Sutter Virtanen

Prust Cracknell Hansen......or some other combination of these players

...

________________________________

(finished quoting now-for some reason the quote button didn't work for me this post)

It strikes me that most are ignoring the word "board" from the original post. The whole point, as I understood it, of J.R.'s post is that Horvat's production can be improved by adding a 2nd forechecker to the line, having two including Horvat. The winger would be checking along the boards more than the center.

Perhaps I've been unfair in quoting crabcakes' response as he pretty clearly understands the idea while some other posters don't seem to be able to see parts of the original post. (J.R.'s multiple times asking if people had read his post are amusing entertainment.)

Another of the things J.R. mentioned that I'm not sure some posters paid attention to (or maybe they just disagreed with it) was Vrbata being too good to put on the 3rd line. Imo that is probably true for reasons that don't have much to do with line chemistry. One of those is that if the management of the Canucks is giving any thought to trading Vrbata by the trade deadline, an idea we see expressed often on this forum, moving him to a less productive 3rd line isn't going to enhance either his trade value or his enthusiasm for the game.

Baertschi is a playmaker who can also score, McCann appears so far to be good at shooting and almost as good playmaking. I don't see any reason to think that Baertschi, who seems so far to fit well with Horvat, wouldn't also fit with McCann.

The original post seemed to make a lot of sense as something to try some time.

You nailed it broski

[Mr.53]

We all know injuries are bound to happen, and bound to happen soon. Soon we won't be talking about a crowded lineup and where does Virtanen fit. We'll be talking about how we wished we had more healthy guys on the roster. Injuries are real. Even if Virtanen is 13th forward, I expect him to gets lots of games. 65+.

However though, I agree Virtanen would be a great fit for the second line. But he would be a great fit for pretty much anywhere in the lineup. We have real depth on this team.

[Crabcakes]

How about we don't send McCann anywhere. We need his skill, speed, and grit. I like Vrbata with Horvat.

McCann is great. He has met every challenge along the way and succeeded. Willie knows this but he takes it day by day. I think that McCann may soon overtake Virtanen as the top prospect. I think that he'll stick but time will tell.

[CanucksJay]

This seems to be an ongoing topic of discussion in numerous threads so I though it might merit it's own.

With Baer and Vrbata on Horvat's wings, that line (while skilled) seems to lack a forechecking/board battle presence. It's making Horvat especially IMO less effective and hence the line/team less effective.

WD needs to get a forechecker on the second line IMO. While everyone's clamoring for the 'kid line' we saw in the preseason to be reunited, I actually think we're better off tweaking that and making a different 'kid line' (or possibly 'kid pair' plus Hansen).

Sedin, Sedin, Sutter

Burrows, Horvat, Vrbata

Baer, McCann, Hansen/Virtanen

Dorsett, Cracknell, Virtanen/Hansen

*Sub in Prust for injuries, if Virt needs a game off, playing a bruising team etc.

IMO, putting a forechecker in Burrows with Horvat/Vrbata will do wonders.

Same with McCann and Hansen/Virtanen. Either pair of those three (McCann/Hansen/Virtanen) will give space to Baer to make plays and they all have good-great shots and great speed. Baer would also likely benefit from the likely lesser QOC he'd face on the third line which IMO would help him get his footing and gain more confidence.

I like it! Good outside of the box thinking.

However, I would be worried about the 3rd line if Virtanen is on it as it might be defensively weak.

Baerstchi is weak along the boards and not so great defensively , McCann is still young and not strong enough on the boards while Virtanen is said to lack hockey IQ.

If anything, I would put Hansen on 3rd and put Virtanen on 4th.

[Honky Cat]

I like the way you think OP. I think this is a variation on the old Sniper-Playmaker-Forechecker line construction concept.

If we're isolating on the 2nd line, I think that Horvat is providing the gristle as it is presently constructed. On the rush, it's probably better for the forechecker to arrive first which is difficult for centres to do.

There are lots of good, possible line combinations and judging from Willies pressers, he thinks in these terms too. There are lots of goals one might have in setting a line up and I think that the present one is a bit of an experiment designed to fit McCann in to see how he will react to regular season play. Vrbata should clearly be top 6 and I agree with the idea to put him on the 2nd line to spread the offense out. He has yet to score a goal but it is early days still. The line has produced. I think that I'd rather shelter McCann with some skilled veterans for the short term.

Longer term, like trade deadline, I wouldn't be surprised to see Vrbata moved for picks which would leave that line open for Baertchi Horvat Virtanen which worked in pre-season and given some seasoning, could work well for the future and fits your model.

Since they are heading to play the big teams in California, do we see McCann sitting next game? It might be beneficial for him to watch and reflect anyways. This may open the door for the following line up:

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Baertschi Horvat Vrbata

Dorsett Sutter Virtanen

Prust Cracknell Hansen......or some other combination of these players

They have a nice problem as it sits now because I think that they have 14 legit forward starters.

Agreed,...I think it would be a good idea to sit McCann for a game on the California trip (its not a demotion,but a learning process)....Get Virtanen in the lineup,and change up the line combinations..

[Bruce Boudreau]

I would never put Dorse or Prusty together. Don't have enough skill to do anything but crash and bang. Cracks and Hanse at least try to make plays.

Need to get Virt in there see what this rookie can do.

Sedin-Sedin-Sutter

Burrows-Horvat-Vrbata

Bear-McCan-Virtanen

Prusty/Dorse, Cracks,Hanse

[Honky Cat]

I would never put Dorse or Prusty together. Don't have enough skill to do anything but crash and bang. Cracks and Hanse at least try to make plays.

Need to get Virt in there see what this rookie can do.

Sedin-Sedin-Sutter

Burrows-Horvat-Vrbata

Bear-McCan-Virtanen

Prusty/Dorse, Cracks,Hanse

That 3rd line looks pretty green..

[Nino]

Agreed,...I think it would be a good idea to sit McCann for a game on the California trip (its not a demotion,but a learning process)....Get Virtanen in the lineup,and change up the line combinations..

I don't think so, not now anyway. Sutter has been playing well with the twins and I'd like to see a little more from them. The second is the problem and will force a mix up on the third as well but I don't see McCann as being the guy who sits to make room for virt in the lineup. One plays wing and one center, they just ate not interchangeable parts and to sit McCann it's changing every line one the team.

[Bruce Boudreau]

That 3rd line looks pretty green..

It is but what a great test to prove they can play. They would get LA and Anahiem's third pair while the vets carry the weight.

Each guy on the kid line has blazing speed as well as a blazing shot Canucks fans and even teammates would be exciting to see if they have some chemistry.

Horvat had chemistry with Baer and Virt in preseason.

So why can't McCann also have chemistry though?

He is responsible enough defensively and can win draws.

At the very least these guys should be on the second unit power play if not 5 on 5.

[aGENT]

I like it! Good outside of the box thinking.

However, I would be worried about the 3rd line if Virtanen is on it as it might be defensively weak.

Baerstchi is weak along the boards and not so great defensively , McCann is still young and not strong enough on the boards while Virtanen is said to lack hockey IQ.

If anything, I would put Hansen on 3rd and put Virtanen on 4th.

That would be why I had Hansen 1st on the 3rd line (Hansen/Virtanen) and Virtanen 1st on the 4th line (Virtanen/Hansen)

And FWIW, Virtanen doesn't lack IQ IMO. I mean nobody is going to mistake him for a Sedin but he's quite competent within his own skill set. I'd have him on the 4th though just to minimize any pressure/expectations.

[aGENT]

Seems the coaches where thinking the same thing I was. Hope they stick with it next game and let those new lines form some chemistry. Maybe insert Virtanen for Prust. Though that 4th line is playing well.

[xereau]

I have been calling for Burrows with Horvat since training camp, 2014.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

JR you make a good point. The current set up of on the second line is lacking that aggressive fore-check. Both Baertschi and Vbrata play a passive game and try to use their high hockey sense to read the play to cause a turn over.(that doesn't mean they are soft) The problem with that is without the strong fore-check it gives time for the opposing team to make the right plays. It’s probably best to not have two of the same type of player on the same line. At the end of the game WD switched Burr and Sven and it really made a difference. Hansen on the third line is that constant attack. His pressure allowed sven the opportunity to read the play and create those turn overs. I don’t know if the lines at the end of last game were perfect but there does need to be a strong fore-check on the other side of Vbrata and Sven.

Virtanen could be an answer for the kid line but, we could also expect a ton of mistakes. With Higgins back in the lineup next month WD is really going to have to find some chemistry soon. I’m assuming that’s why McCann is getting most games early as when Higgins comes back he pushes Burr back with the twins and Sutter down to third/second (whatever you want to call it) line center.

[Gaudette Celly]

...just because I wouldn't want McCann with Baertschi. Only has 9 games and it'd be best for him to be lined up alongside veteran players to help him. Horvat is mature enough where he can play with Baertschi. Vrbata would give McCann a scorer to work with who plays a great 2way game as well.

I get the sense that McCann is here to stay. His game is pro-ready and we can use (and need) what he brings to the lineup. He makes mistakes but ones that come with experience, same as Bo last year.

[Gaudette Celly]

JR you make a good point. The current set up of on the second line is lacking that aggressive fore-check. Both Baertschi and Vbrata play a passive game and try to use their high hockey sense to read the play to cause a turn over.(that doesn't mean they are soft) The problem with that is without the strong fore-check it gives time for the opposing team to make the right plays.

It's frustrating to see Bo in first on the forecheck and the only one really in there fighting for the puck against often two other players while Baertschi and Vrbata stand at a distance waiting for a loose puck.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

It's frustrating to see Bo in first on the forecheck and the only one really in there fighting for the puck against often two other players while Baertschi and Vrbata stand at a distance waiting for a loose puck.

I agree, I actually like seeing Baertschi and Horvat together, they seem to have some chemistry. If Virtanen is a no go, I wouldn't mind seeing Hansen play RW with them two.

[aGENT]

Man they need to re-jig that 2nd line. They just have no chemistry and for whatever reason Vrbata is just not burying gift wrapped chances right now.

Even if it's not my suggested lineup, they need to separate Baer and Vrbata and get some forechecking presence on that line. Hopefully with another forechecker Vrbata and Horvat look a little better together, otherwise split them up too. If Horvat/Vrbata can't play nice I'd be just as happy when Higgins gets back with:

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows

Higgins, Sutter, Vrbata

Baer, Horvat, Hansen

Prust/Dorsett, Cracknell, Dorsett/Virtanen

But man Vrbata's proving an ill fit this season.. Skilled guy and all but I'd almost prefer him traded if he can't play with Horvat.

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows

Higgins, Sutter, Hansen

Baer, Horvat, Virtanen/Dorsett

Prust, Cracknell, Virtanen/Dorsett

[Nino]

Man they need to re-jig that 2nd line. They just have no chemistry and for whatever reason Vrbata is just not burying gift wrapped chances right now.

Even if it's not my suggested lineup, they need to separate Baer and Vrbata and get some forechecking presence on that line. Hopefully with another forechecker Vrbata and Horvat look a little better together, otherwise split them up too. If Horvat/Vrbata can't play nice I'd be just as happy when Higgins gets back with:

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows

Higgins, Sutter, Vrbata

Baer, Horvat, Hansen

Prust/Dorsett, Cracknell, Dorsett/Virtanen

But man Vrbata's proving an ill fit this season.. Skilled guy and all but I'd almost prefer him traded if he can't play with Horvat.

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows

Higgins, Sutter, Hansen

Baer, Horvat, Virtanen/Dorsett

Prust, Cracknell, Virtanen/Dorsett

I'm more in favor of moving higgy and going with more youth, we've played well without him and even if he were to help us in the shots term I think it's better to move him.