Greenland is Melting Away - Sea Levels could rise 20ft after full melting - If it happens

[Dittohead]

It's Always a warning and/or bad news by these guys  lol...   Fear sells.

 

 

 

[CanadianLoonie]

This is over 80 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Vancouver data station...

This is almost 100 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Victoria data station...

Even with all the melting glaciers AND all the groundwater pumped up from aquifers, there isn't much of an uptrend...but if paying carbon taxes to governments will make you sleep better at night then by all means pay up!

[RWMc1]

This is over 80 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Vancouver data station...

 

 

This is almost 100 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Victoria data station...

 

Even with all the melting glaciers AND all the groundwater pumped up from aquifers, there isn't much of an uptrend...but if paying carbon taxes to governments will make you sleep better at night then by all means pay up!

I think carbon is being used as a distraction. Everyone focuses on carbon emissions and the myriad of other more harmful pollutants are pretty much ignored or minimized. It seems to be working.

 

 

[TOMapleLaughs]

This is over 80 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Vancouver data station...

This is almost 100 years worth of tide gauge readings from the last century at the Victoria data station...

Even with all the melting glaciers AND all the groundwater pumped up from aquifers, there isn't much of an uptrend...but if paying carbon taxes to governments will make you sleep better at night then by all means pay up!

You can literally see an uptrend.

But hey, instead of hitting up the public with higher taxes, how about we hit up the corporations who've done the research and purposefully hid the effects of their products on global warming for decades?  Sounds fairly free market to me.

[inane]

I still don't get the whole conspiracy thing. People are making billions off oil, why would they trump up a whole conspiracy that would endanger the constant flow of oil money?

[CanadianLoonie]

You can literally see an uptrend.

But hey, instead of hitting up the public with higher taxes, how about we hit up the corporations who've done the research and purposefully hid the effects of their products on global warming for decades?  Sounds fairly free market to me.

[Kragar]

You can literally see an uptrend.

Yep, we can.  Rising about 5cm in 100 years.  If there was some sort of hyperbolic action showing (aside from the climate change rhetoric), I would be more concerned.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Yep, we can.  Rising about 5cm in 100 years.  If there was some sort of hyperbolic action showing (aside from the climate change rhetoric), I would be more concerned.

You can also see acceleration.

I've always felt climate change deniers to be baffling.  Are they in a different environment from me?  Because over my lifetime, I've noticed it getting quite a bit warmer.  The summers are longer, definitely.  He have the odd snow storm still I guess, but even that has calmed down in the past few winters.  Last winter was barely anything.  

Considering the proven science behind global warming, proven by Exxon itself, it is certain that this trend is human-caused.  

But at what rate?  It looks to be accelerating.  

Is it reversible? We don't know.  I believe it is.  

Could we at least stop pretending it isn't happening?  Yup.

And more importantly, who's going to pay for the damage already done?  While the public is going to be targeted as we're all users, I'm not certain why the greedy ass corporations who purposely attempted mislead us on this issue for decades should get off the hook. Thinking tobacco lawsuit, but much, much larger scale.  

[Kragar]

You can also see acceleration.

I've always felt climate change deniers to be baffling.  Are they in a different environment from me?  Because over my lifetime, I've noticed it getting quite a bit warmer.  The summers are longer, definitely.  He have the odd snow storm still I guess, but even that has calmed down in the past few winters.  Last winter was barely anything.  

Considering the proven science behind global warming, proven by Exxon itself, it is certain that this trend is human-caused.  

But at what rate?  It looks to be accelerating.  

Is it reversible? We don't know.  I believe it is.  

Could we at least stop pretending it isn't happening?  Yup.

And more importantly, who's going to pay for the damage already done?  While the public is going to be targeted as we're all users, I'm not certain why the greedy ass corporations who purposely attempted mislead us on this issue for decades should get off the hook. Thinking tobacco lawsuit, but much, much larger scale.  

I don't see significant acceleration, but to be fair, the same trend I described could also be applied over the last 50-70 years as the last 100.  Still, I don't see much to worry about.  

I think we have all experienced some range of change.  Not necessarily warmer, but perhaps more moderate.  There have still been extremes, be it with temperature or precipitation, experienced in our lifetimes.  The main issues I have are the insistence that it is mostly man-made, the incredible benefit of the doubt the CC lobby allows with the models used, and the political abuse of the CC movement.  

I've read the Exxon article in your other thread.  It's sad if they were really suppressing research, but not surprising, since it would hurt their bottom line noticeably.  One thing I picked up on in there was the talk about CO2 levels, and the impact of doubling it.  How much impact does one, if not the largest contributor of CO2 have?  I'm referencing volcanic activity.  Eruptions contribute both to cooling (due to ash released) and CO2 volume, so it confuses the overall matter.  Some articles I read explain that scientists are still trying to figure out the combined impacts of nature, solar activity, and man-made contributions.  If that's truly the case, then there is still some room for debate, and man-made CC is not clearly the absolute it is made out to be.

With the models: First it's getting warmer, and the CC lobby forecasts is that it will keep getting warmer, in some cases drastically so.  Then reality hits, and temp increases taper off, and even some cooling happens.  More recently (last 10-15 years), there was talk about the drastic increase we can expect in the number and strength of hurricanes, but hurricane records haven't supported that theory yet.  If there was some consistency in the models and the communication of them, it would be easier to take seriously.  

Too many things are blamed or dismissed in the name of CC.  Just today I saw a news ticker, quoting Bernie Sanders, that the pipeline project is bad for CC.  So, does that mean it's better for the environment that oil, which will get extracted anyway, be transported by various fossil-fuel burning transport with a higher likelihood of spillage?  There are plenty of other instances like this, but all someone has to say is that some issue du jour involves climate change, and many people eat it up as gospel without taking the time to think it through.  For the record, I don't at all deny that it happens on the other side of the argument too... pisses me off when I get led down the wrong path.

Scientists need to be allowed to do their research, and debate needs to be encouraged.  What I see is too many people who are opposed to the popular view being shouted down, often by people who have nothing other than their social or political agenda to support their claims.  Contrary ideas are a good thing, even if they turn out to be mistaken, as it encourages debate, research and innovation.  To get to the bottom of this, we need more real and open discussion and research, and less interference and posturing by politicians and lobbyists.  We also need real strategies, and not half-baked feel-good policies that are the equivalent of trying to put out a house fire with a bucket.

Sorry for the essay 

[TOMapleLaughs]

These articles you're reading would be part of the denial lobby.  Volcanic activity, solar activity, etc. are the background that's been relatively steady.  So it's easy to attribute warming to man-made causes, and this is what the vast majority of scientists have agreed upon.  Exxon's own research quantified it.  There is no question.

The research phase is well over with.  The problem though is that science has been politicized, but this wasn't done by your 'cc lobby' recently.  It was done by the oil lobby decades ago and is ongoing now.

Regardless of warming, it's interesting to have the other major impact our environment, pollution, being put aside as if it's a non-factor.  Trust me.  It's a factor.  

[LaBamba]

These articles you're reading would be part of the denial lobby.  Volcanic activity, solar activity, etc. are the background that's been relatively steady.  So it's easy to attribute warming to man-made causes, and this is what the vast majority of scientists have agreed upon.  Exxon's own research quantified it.  There is no question.

The research phase is well over with.  The problem though is that science has been politicized, but this wasn't done by your 'cc lobby' recently.  It was done by the oil lobby decades ago and is ongoing now.

Regardless of warming, it's interesting to have the other major impact our environment, pollution, being put aside as if it's a non-factor.  Trust me.  It's a factor.  

Now what?

Looks like you use a computer so I will assume you don't live in the woods.

You got a car?

Ever use anything plastic? 

Complaining about global warming is pointless. Even if we completely stopped omitting carbon the damage is irreversible. 

Worry about something you can control and enjoy the ride. 

[TOMapleLaughs]

Now what?

Looks like you use a computer so I will assume you don't live in the woods.

You got a car?

Ever use anything plastic? 

Complaining about global warming is pointless. Even if we completely stopped omitting carbon the damage is irreversible. 

Worry about something you can control and enjoy the ride. 

Ah yes, the typical last resort defeatist argument.  Obviously there's more to global problem solving than individual action though.  What we do is continue to press our elected governments for change, and this is happening around the world.  

What we don't do is ostrich and pretend there's no problem. 

[TOMapleLaughs]

"Because it's 2015."

 

Catherine McKenna, Environment Minister, Says Climate Science Is Indisputable

ARIS — Canada's environment minister says the new Liberal government agrees the science is indisputable — that global warming is real and that urgent action is needed to tackle the problem.

Catherine McKenna is in Paris meeting with fellow ministers from around the world.

They're looking for common ground on key issues to set the stage for the climate summit that begins in the French capital on Nov. 30.

 

Some 80 leaders will be gathering in Paris to try to reach a binding agreement on reducing greenhouse gases.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is expected to be joined there by most of the premiers and at least some of the opposition party leaders.

McKenna said in a Twitter post on Sunday "Canada agrees the science is indisputable, and we recognize the need for urgent/greater action that is grounded in robust science," adding "Our main goal is to make sure that all human beings can fulfil a healthy, safe sustainable life."

In another tweet McKenna said "At home, we will provide national leadership and work with our provinces and territories to take real action on climate change."

The ministerial meetings will continue through Tuesday.

The Liberals didn't set an emissions reduction target in their election platform, saying that would have to follow an economic and scientific analysis.

That, however, has led to criticism from some environmental groups who say the government doesn't appear to have a substantive plan heading into the Paris meetings.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/11/09/climate-science-indisputable-environment-minister-catherine-mckenna_n_8508708.html  

[LaBamba]

Ah yes, the typical last resort defeatist argument.  Obviously there's more to global problem solving than individual action though.  What we do is continue to press our elected governments for change, and this is happening around the world.  

What we don't do is ostrich and pretend there's no problem. 

Oh trust me, I know there is a problem. I just find it entertaining when people complain about global warming yet live their lives contributing to the problem. You talk about supporting governments to make change at the same time you consume oil/gas to support energy.  

The government implementing carbon taxes and decommissioning coal power will only fractionally prolong the inevitable. 

As we lower our emissions, the developing countries ramp theirs up. There is just no way a government can make any significant change to our weather patterns on earth.

To believe the Liberals or NDP or Democrats or Republicans can change this is comical to me. 

If you really want to make a difference lock yourself in your basement and create a deadly airborne virus. Put it in a windex bottle and spray people in the face with it at the Vancouver airport. Hopefully it spreads like wildfire and eliminates 50-70% of the worlds population. This would significantly lower carbon emissions. 

 We can then rebuild society over the next 1,000 years using a greener based energy source and live in perfect harmony with the rabbits and squirrels. 

[TOMapleLaughs]

Oh trust me, I know there is a problem. I just find it entertaining when people complain about global warming yet live their lives contributing to the problem. You talk about supporting governments to make change at the same time you consume oil/gas to support energy.  

The government implementing carbon taxes and decommissioning coal power will only fractionally prolong the inevitable. 

As we lower our emissions, the developing countries ramp theirs up. There is just no way a government can make any significant change to our weather patterns on earth.

To believe the Liberals or NDP or Democrats or Republicans can change this is comical to me. 

If you really want to make a difference lock yourself in your basement and create a deadly airborne virus. Put it in a windex bottle and spray people in the face with it at the Vancouver airport. Hopefully it spreads like wildfire and eliminates 50-70% of the worlds population. This would significantly lower carbon emissions. 

 We can then rebuild society over the next 1,000 years using a greener based energy source and live in perfect harmony with the rabbits and squirrels. 

What choice do we have?  When huge lobbies essentially dictate a means of global transportation for decades, then yes, alternatives will be kept to the fringes.   I don't find it entertaining.  I find it concerning.

I have faith in our technology though, and as soon as political will is finally achieved, then these problems will be solved.

There is a group that is pro-ostriching, giving up, and condoning partial extinction as a solution.  Yeah, I'm glad these people aren't making the decisions.

[LaBamba]

What choice do we have?  When huge lobbies essentially dictate a means of global transportation for decades, then yes, alternatives will be kept to the fringes.   I don't find it entertaining.  I find it concerning.

I have faith in our technology though, and as soon as political will is finally achieved, then these problems will be solved.

There is a group that is pro-ostriching, giving up, and condoning partial extinction as a solution.  Yeah, I'm glad these people aren't making the decisions.

Even the most advanced technologies aren't going to reverse the damage already done. You also cannot control China's and India's growing appetite for fossil fuels.

We consume over 96,000,000 bbls of oil in 1 day on earth. Seriously think about what that physically looks like. Think about the amount of carbon a lake of oil burned a day looks like. 

As the world develops the daily consumption grows at roughly 1.5m bbls/ year.

How much Oil that can the world handle? 50,000,000 bbls/day? 1,000,000 bbls a day? 0? We also have mass deforestation to contend with, and coal. Whatever the formula is to reverse the effects it's impossible to achieve with this many people on the planet. 

Humans are Oil sucking parasites.

The only significant way to reduce carbon consumption is to reduce humans. It's sounds crazy but it's really the only way. 

How long would it take to replace every fuel burning device on earth with one that uses clean energy and that's affordable for all? 

Even if global oil consumption stayed flat for the next 20 years we still burn 96,000,000 bbls a day for the next 20 years. 

If you want to help with global warming kill as many people as you can

 

[TOMapleLaughs]

Even the most advanced technologies aren't going to reverse the damage already done. You also cannot control China's and India's growing appetite for fossil fuels.

We consume over 96,000,000 bbls of oil in 1 day on earth. Seriously think about what that physically looks like. Think about the amount of carbon a lake of oil burned a day looks like. 

As the world develops the daily consumption grows at roughly 1.5m bbls/ year.

How much Oil that can the world handle? 50,000,000 bbls/day? 1,000,000 bbls a day? 0? We also have mass deforestation to contend with, and coal. Whatever the formula is to reverse the effects it's impossible to achieve with this many people on the planet. 

Humans are Oil sucking parasites.

The only significant way to reduce carbon consumption is to reduce humans. It's sounds crazy but it's really the only way. 

How long would it take to replace every fuel burning device on earth with one that uses clean energy and that's affordable for all? 

Even if global oil consumption stayed flat for the next 20 years we still burn 96,000,000 bbls a day for the next 20 years. 

If you want to help with global warming kill as many people as you can

 

I don't subscribe to this.  We can and have evolved technologies and we will again.

[LaBamba]

I don't subscribe to this.  We can and have evolved technologies and we will again.

Then you are clearly out of touch. The problem is far bigger than you will ever understand. 

[TOMapleLaughs]

Then you are clearly out of touch. The problem is far bigger than you will ever understand. 

And i'm the alarmist?  lol

 

Maybe being involved in the oil life so long has led to certain illusions.  I'm glad i'm free of them and is able to see at least some potential alternatives.

[LaBamba]

And i'm the alarmist?  lol

 

Maybe being involved in the oil life so long has led to certain illusions.  I'm glad i'm free of them and is able to see at least some potential alternatives. 

 Nah, you are just as stubborn as I am when it comes to what you believe. 

But seriously, if we burn 96,000,000 bbls of oil a day, and the world is already heating up. What would it take to reverse that trend? Maintaining that trend is clearly not good enough, so what would it be?

If Canada didn't burn a single once of oil you could subtract -2.5m, USA -19m, UK -1.4m, Netherlands -1M the Nordic countries -1M, you got -24.9M Bbls. = 71,000,000 bbls/ day. 

The last time the world burned 71M bbls of oil was only in 1996!!! In only 20 years we have increased our oil consumption by the amount of all of what North America uses in 1 day. 

Now, can you see the problem? 

We are sooooo f$&@"d it's incomprehensible.

there is NO technology in existence that could both buck that trend and get us back to even 1996 oil consumption. And I'm pretty sure global warming was a problem in 1996 as well. 

I hate to be pessimistic bro, but sooner or later your just going to have to except it, and enjoy the ride.