TOMapleLaughs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's because Miller has been on his head. But I never said Sbisa was a world beater… but 4th/5th on the line (like stats) show seem relevant to his stature right now. My point is both are young and developing and quite frankly Sbisa isn't as bad as most say. Not worse than Bieksa.Considering the fact that before last night Horvat was a -8, putting into the consideration that Miller has been playing elite, I think it stands.The point isn't really being made well though, at least not based on +/-. And Miller's performance impacts all the d equally, one would think.I have no huge problem with Sbisa, but his upside is meh. Horvat's upside is much, much higher. But yup, there will be growing pains with this team's new core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I think Bo is playing injured. The hate for Sbisa hasn't been that bad this year, but he gets it because when he does make the mistakes, they are glaring mistakes that end up being high-end scoring chances for the opposing team. I have found Sbisa fairly tolerable this season, but his past will haunt him for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 ...the one with the balls... +/- is a flawed stat and becomes even worse when looking at small sample sizes. Your 'reasoning' clearly shows you're trying to find a direct correlation without understanding why they might have those stats./thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sbisa and Bartkowski btw should never be a pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Zamboni Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Bo Knows that I like Pizza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedin Brothers Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 ...the one with the balls... +/- is a flawed stat and becomes even worse when looking at small sample sizes. Your 'reasoning' clearly shows you're trying to find a direct correlation without understanding why they might have those stats./thread So you're totally dismissing Horvat getting scored on a lot (enough to be a -6) and not really showing much offensive production because "dis stat is flawddddd"So just so we're clear, getting scored on is okay as long as you understand "why" they got scored on. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sbisa, as usual, has been a solid dman for the Canucks. He plays physical, is good in his own end and doesn't give up the puck much. Many on CDC, as usual, have no eyes for how the game is actually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiboynux4lifee******* Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sbisa, as usual, has been a solid dman for the Canucks. He plays physical, is good in his own end and doesn't give up the puck much. Many on CDC, as usual, have no eyes for how the game is actually played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiboynux4lifee******* Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Coming from you, I'll take that as a complimentMark my words, Lucas Sbisa is a player a team can never win with. He will cost this team big games, playoff series, and if this team ever makes it to the finals hell he will even cost them a stanely cup! There's a reason Hawks played with a shortened defence against Tampa. Joel Quenville would of waived Sbisa by now, I really don't see anything in his game that gives him a roster spot. It's Bennings big blunder that will cost this team for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Everyone seems to be looking at Horvat through rose-coloured glasses this year. I'm a big Horvat fan, one of my favourite players, I have his jersey, and I believe he'll be the top line centre and next captain in a few years. BUT, he hasn't played well this year. I've barely noticed him. He's tied with Sbisa, Bartkowski, Hamhuis and Tanev in pts (2) - all D. In fact, Bartkowski and Hamhuis have played fewer games than Horvat. Not good enough. IMO, Horvat's lack of production isn't getting much awareness, because the focus has been on McCann, Hutton, Virtanen and Gaunce. Call it like it is, so far Horvat isn't producing like he should, regardless of his defensive responsibilities. Hope that changes soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Mark my words, Lucas Sbisa is a player a team can never win with. He will cost this team big games, playoff series, and if this team ever makes it to the finals hell he will even cost them a stanely cup! There's a reason Hawks played with a shortened defence against Tampa. Joel Quenville would of waived Sbisa by now, I really don't see anything in his game that gives him a roster spot. It's Bennings big blunder that will cost this team for years to come.Just like Bobby Sanguinetti was going to make us regret letting him go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Everyone seems to be looking at Horvat through rose-coloured glasses this year. I'm a big Horvat fan, one of my favourite players, I have his jersey, and I believe he'll be the top line centre and next captain in a few years. BUT, he hasn't played well this year. I've barely noticed him. He's tied with Sbisa, Bartkowski, Hamhuis and Tanev in pts (2) - all D. In fact, Bartkowski and Hamhuis have played fewer games than Horvat. Not good enough. IMO, Horvat's lack of production isn't getting much awareness, because the focus has been on McCann, Hutton, Virtanen and Gaunce. Call it like it is, so far Horvat isn't producing like he should, regardless of his defensive responsibilities. Hope that changes soon.at least 2 goals were a direct result of him screening in front of the net, but he got no credit.he's playing against top linesit's early in the season, even vrbata is -4 with only 4 points, and 2 were flukes and he's had top pp and sedin timethe fact he's going up against kopitar and getzlaf at 20 and not being out of place is legit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I want to like Sbisa. I really do. He just can't play defense. hate to hear your opinion on weber then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazzyHankBo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I know I'm going to be hated, but I'm going to be the one with balls and bring this up. Yet all I see is this warranted, but way over the top hate on Sbisa. News flash guys, Sbisa is not the reason we are losing these games. He's definitely a turnover machine, but not the sole reason. But I will say that Horvat going through this sophomore slump is definitely not helping. I think we're in good shape as of now, but I find it interesting that we get threads like "Vrbata holding Horvat down" or "we're losing cause of D" - well D also includes a supposed great two-way center that's not doing very well defensively.I love Horvat and think he can get 20 goals on the year, but if he can't keep it up, I think he should go as the 3 center for the year. He's not playing good.I think Horvat should be our number 3 right now regardless. Sutter is playing very well and has settled in. I think a few were worried in the preseason about him, but Benning made a solid trade. He's not going to light it up offensively (even though he's currently leading the team in points - I don't suspect that will last), but he clearly has some offensive talent, is a fast, hard checking 2c - Kesler lite I'd say. He is more than adequate in that 2c spot and with Burr and Virtanen (who hopefully settles in offensively once he's here for good) it makes a decent 2nd line.My view is Baerschi is dragging Bo down. Baer is playing a very perimeter, soft game right now. He's also not creating anything, just seems to be somewhat floating. Bo knows this, Bo is attempting to play the defensive and offensive role of 2 players right now, and sorry but only Gretz and Lemieux were that good (offensively and well they didn't have to worry about defense bc they always had the puck!)....I think we need to drop Baer to the 4th line to 'teach' him how to play with some energy and intensity. Bo needs to be playing with a full line if we want his offense to come out. I have played very competitive hockey and was a center. I have personally played with guys who aren't really doing their job and this is exactly what happens, the center tries to cover for it, and in the end his play and the line suffers. It's basically like playing shorthanded the entire game, very hard and eventually extremely frustrating.Move Baer to the 4th or sit him when Higgins returns (the most likely outcome anyways).Sedin Sedin VrbataBurrows Sutter VirtanenDorsett Horvat Hansen (great chemistry last year)Higgins McCann PrustCrack/Baer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Fig Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I want to like Sbisa. I really do. He just can't play defense. Yes he can...he's just a semi-disaster with the puck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milk and honey Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Horvat plays against the top line of the other team most games. If anyone could find some kind of stat that would put what % of his ice time is defensive vs in the other team zone. That would give a better perspective. Horvat should be doing better but we need to let him develop properly. His line mates have changed a bit now and they are not helping him much offensively. Even Stamkos had a tough start to his 2nd season iirc. Avalanche had issues last year. Sbisa hate on this forum is loud and clear. I agree he isn't top4 and is slighty overpaid but he has been much better then last year. Horvat should go to 3C and sutter 2C sedins burrowsvrbata sutter virtanenhiggins horvat hansenprust mccann dorsett whats gonna happen with sven once higgins return? higgins/hansen trade? Sven waived/ 13th man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazzyHankBo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yes he can...he's just a semi-disaster with the puck. And that will be coached out of him. Just needs to simplify his decisionsI think most here have to agree, if being objective, he has already improved that relative to last year. He's certainly not where we need him to be yet but there has been improvement in his puck decisions vis a vis last season.He will continue to improve, he's not as bad as many of the panickers here like to claim. He's solid defensively, a good skater, has shown and ability to jump into the rush and is tough (similar to Bieksa), just needs to minimize his errors and keep his game simple - which as I said, I have seen an improvement in this year.He'll be fine in a few years as a solid 5/6 -he's only 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sutter is playing very well and has settled in. I think a few were worried in the preseason about him, but Benning made a solid trade. He's not going to light it up offensively (even though he's currently leading the team in points - I don't suspect that will last),#POSPLAYERGP GA P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S% 22LDANIEL SEDIN1026836000395.1021CBRANDON SUTTER10347301112213.60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 This thread reminds me of a guy in a boat, moving at 2 knots, with a fishing line in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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