TU90 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yes he can...he's just a semi-disaster with the puck. I was sticking up for him a lot last season. But he has at least 1 awful decision with the puck every game - it's getting ridiculous. I could say the same about Edler too, but he brings other positives. Hoping the coaching can get Sbisa to settle down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazzyHankBo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 #POSPLAYERGP GA P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S% 22LDANIEL SEDIN1026836000395.1021CBRANDON SUTTER10347301112213.60seriously? oh wow I didn't look at the stats after yesterdayyou must be alot of fun at parties buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The problem is Horvat has learned how to have success with plugs so the mentality of pucks in deep or pucks on net is ingrained in him. His line often gets burned because guys like Baertschi and Vrbata love to carry the puck in because they're good at it and it works. More often than not Horvat ends up dumping it in and being the sole guy chasing it down low. He's being employed in a top six role now so he needs to learn the top six game. Puck possession baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sbisa is playing much improved hockey - very promising imo.Playing him off Horvat though won't serve your purpose - I see no point. I think Horvat is playing better than you suggest, and having to carry a necessarily sheltered rookie winger at times (Baertschi) and it's probably not helping.But regarding Sbisa - will repost what I had to say in the PGT. Sbisa has had a great start to the season.Very few turnovers - in fact only 1 giveaway after 10 games - outstanding improvement in puck movement. Even 0 turnover differential.Better than a block and a hit a game.A couple points, an even 0 plus minus, and respectable underlying numbers.Just under 18 minutes a game with the lowest offensive zone starts on the blueline at 41.8% - almost exclusively playing with a rookie or newcomer to the blueline.If he continues to improve at anywhere near this rate, he'll be precisely what GMJB hoped he'd be when he acquired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 He clearly sucks, he needs to traded for a 5th round pick with Virtanen, who will never be NHL ready.It's that or people need to calm the f down and let him play his game. He is getting tough assignments and he is going to be just fine. As will Virt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Teams' still adjusting and changing lines. Lots of new players which creates uncertainty and system changes.Meanwhile, they are playing much better than expected and working hard. Loosing in the 3rd to StL and Dal is more about playing teams that are significantly better.Gotta expect mistakes and headaches during the teams' growing period. Still a couple of years away from contending.Sbisa is not as bad as people like to chime in about. Bo is taking a bigger role this year and will need time to settle in (just as he did last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NazzyHankBo Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Sbisa is playing much improved hockey - very promising imo.Playing him off Horvat though won't serve your purpose - I see no point. I think Horvat is playing better than you suggest, and having to carry a necessarily sheltered rookie winger at times (Baertschi) and it's probably not helping.But regarding Sbisa - will repost what I had to say in the PGT. Sbisa has had a great start to the season.Very few turnovers - in fact only 1 giveaway after 10 games - outstanding improvement in puck movement. Even 0 turnover differential.Better than a block and a hit a game.A couple points, an even 0 plus minus, and respectable underlying numbers.Just under 18 minutes a game with the lowest offensive zone starts on the blueline at 41.8% - almost exclusively playing with a rookie or newcomer to the blueline.If he continues to improve at anywhere near this rate, he'll be precisely what GMJB hoped he'd be when he acquired him.Isn't it funny how stats can completely destroy people's inherent biases and show how they lack objectivity in their assessment of players?Excellent post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Mark my words, Lucas Sbisa is a player a team can never win with. He will cost this team big games, playoff series, and if this team ever makes it to the finals hell he will even cost them a stanely cup! There's a reason Hawks played with a shortened defence against Tampa. Joel Quenville would of waived Sbisa by now, I really don't see anything in his game that gives him a roster spot. It's Bennings big blunder that will cost this team for years to come.See my sig. Notice that even Buffalo waived Bobby's sorry ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersexual Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 When does the 'Time to trade Horvat' threads pop up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Correction - Sbisa had his 2nd giveaway this season last night.Now there's only 492 players with as many or more....http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/player-giveaways-statistic/2015/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 When does the 'Time to trade Horvat' threads pop up?If it happens, I bet the thread title would be 'Horvat, do we really need him?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Playing him off Horvat though won't serve your purpose - I see no point. I think Horvat is playing better than you suggest, and having to carry a necessarily sheltered rookie winger at times (Baertschi) and it's probably not helping.Irony is fun!It's also fun to indirectly blame Horvat's +/- on Baertschi, who has only been on the ice for 1 goal against all season (the first GA from the first game, in Calgary). Last night Baer was on the ice for our first 2 GF, and none against, and was generally carrying play. So OBVIOUSLY the right call is to bench him from the 9:30 mark of the 3rd period on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I want to like Sbisa. I really do. He just can't play defense. That's why Hutton is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Irony is fun!It's also fun to indirectly blame Horvat's +/- on Baertschi, who has only been on the ice for 1 goal against all season (the first GA from the first game, in Calgary). Last night Baer was on the ice for our first 2 GF, and none against, and was generally carrying play. So OBVIOUSLY the right call is to bench him from the 9:30 mark of the 3rd period on.Yeah, nice pick up D-Mo. but the 'indirectly' thing is a stretch - my point wasn't to "blame" Horvat's plus/minus on Baertshi (I honestly couldn't care less about plus/minus - it's a useless statistic when cherry picked - nor could I care less to lay "blame"). I think it's more than fair to point out the objective fact that Baetschi is the most sheltered forward on the team - weakest quality of competition and 2nd to only Virtanen in ozone starts. Horvat on the other hand, when he's not with Baertshi, faces very strong qualcomp and high dzone starts - so reality is that Horvat (ironically, as a sophomore) is sheltering the older Baertschi, who hasn't really shown he can handle a lot of 5 on 5 situations.Sbisa and Horvat though - really not much to correlate there - and Horvat's +/-, if we're going to waste time assigning meaning to it - should be kept in the context of his hard minutes and sheltering of a green linemate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fair enough.But I don't think Baertschi needs to be sheltered as much as he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Fair enough.But I don't think Baertschi needs to be sheltered as much as he is.That may be true, but I'm all for making the young guys earn it - and I think he's been getting outplayed by Virtanen and McCann, who has scored 4 goals playing bottom six minutes with much stronger qualcomp and under 50% ozone starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Horvat is playing well, but has had his defensive responsibilities increase by quite a bit, and he's had to adjust to that. Classic sophomore jinx scenario.McCann is currently getting the role Horvat had last year, and predictably everyone is really, really excited about McCann.It's no wonder we're in love with our 4th lines here. They get by far the easiest assignments. Coaching and management have some tough calls to make. Do we send the kids down and scrape away at games with vets? Or do we tinker with a kid-filled lineup all season long to promote some NHL development? I think this year it might be the latter, but we'll see. The trouble is people are not happy with Willie bringing them in gradually (as he did with Bo) There are too many idiots expecting the rookies to go from junior to 15 mins a night in 8 games. The whole lot of them. They have no idea what playing so many rookies for big minutes has on the performance of the the vets and the team itself. Not to mention the pathetic badgering Willie gets from the media jackals who are supposed to know something about the game.It is hard enough maintaining a success level blooding one rookie but to try to keep a team winning with 4 and a sophomore rookie in Horvat would test any coach, let alone a coach in only his 2nd season in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That may be true, but I'm all for making the young guys earn it - and I think he's been getting outplayed by Virtanen and McCann, who has scored 4 goals playing bottom six minutes with much stronger qualcomp and under 50% ozone starts.Outside of the odd monster hit, I think Baertschi >> Virtanen at this point.Of course, he's got a lot of years and professional experience, so he should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumerman77 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Plus/Minus is a garbage stat that isn't even worth a glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 The trouble is people are not happy with Willie bringing them in gradually (as he did with Bo) There are too many idiots expecting the rookies to go from junior to 15 mins a night in 8 games. The whole lot of them. They have no idea what playing so many rookies for big minutes has on the performance of the the vets and the team itself. Not to mention the pathetic badgering Willie gets from the media jackals who are supposed to know something about the game.It is hard enough maintaining a success level blooding one rookie but to try to keep a team winning with 4 and a sophomore rookie in Horvat would test any coach, let alone a coach in only his 2nd season in the NHL.Unhappy fans and a badgering media are constants. The variables are what the team should be concerned about, and I believe they are. I don't think anyone expects a cup right now, so this season should be an investment. How they go about the investing is tbd. It should be interesting to see what plans unfold.We're not in a special scenario anyway. Arizona 4-5 rooks. Chicago has 4-5. St. Louis 3-4. Detroit 2-3. etc.They don't seem to have an issue giving kids time despite having some established vets. In a league where shrimps like Gaudreau and Max Domi can now succeed, it would seem that the level of protection being necessary has diminished. The league has become really, really wussy.It makes you wonder why a supposedly super-skilled player like Bartchi so far has underwhelmed. (Too slow.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.