[Discussion] Do Benning and Linden have what it takes to move the Sedins on time?

[soshified]

Out in the first round of the playoffs. Your point?

I don't think that the Sedins should be traded. From a legacy and lineage perspective, they should retire Canucks. But I am not going to piss in the wind and call it Dom Perignon either.

Without them, no playoffs in the first place. 

You want the kids to succeed. But how can they when they're not even ready?  

[BlackRedYellow]

The title is just bad in this topic. It's got nothing to do with if JB+TL has what it takes to move the Sedin's. It's all about cap and I can't see any team in the whole league wanting to pay 14M for two older guys. Especially since none of them's a pure sniper. 

Iginla was a sniper and to pay a little less (he didn't have the same wage problem) for a proven sniper is one thing. To pay 14M for two very old guys is just not realistic. So JB+TL is stuck with what they've got, and trying to do the best out of it. 

In my opinion, that is to use them for two things; mentoring the kids and stay competitive a couple of more seasons. After that, please let them retire here in VanCity! 

[hearditall]

Give it up PLEASE.

We trade them we immediately become the BOTTOM team in the NHL. That's a fact!

[Goat James]

Canadians vastly overestimate the lure and mystique of The CUP to European born players. The twins have an Olympic gold (Hank has 2) - which they grew up fantasizing about - and Hank also has a worlds gold.  I don't doubt that they would like to win for the city's sake, and their teams, but I bet when they were pre-teens skating on the frozen ponds in Ornskoldsvik, and shooting at the net, it was never for Lord Stanley.

They are Canuck lifers.

How does Henrik have two Olympic golds? Sweden has won the Hockey gold twice, in 2006 when Daniel and Henrik both were on the team, and in 1994 when Henrik was 13 years old. 

Also, Daniel also has a Worlds gold that he won along with Henrik in 2013. 

[Adamth]

the past doesnt really tell the full story of how a player changes 4 the better or worse in the future. Frankly i said this many times Sedins are better politions or hospital supporters then hockey players ...unless they go 4 scoring conditioning - offense will always be a problem from those vets.

 

[Googlie]

How does Henrik have two Olympic golds? Sweden has won the Hockey gold twice, in 2006 when Daniel and Henrik both were on the team, and in 1994 when Henrik was 13 years old. 

 

LOL - I misread Wiki profile - it said re Henrik "double Olympian" which I misinferred as gold.... he was precocious as a teenager, but ,,,,, :D

[Alflives]

Give it up PLEASE.

We trade them we immediately become the BOTTOM team in the NHL. That's a fact!

we are not trading the Twins.  However, what if Columbus would give us Ryan Johanson?  Would we do that trade?

[Nucksfansince91]

Sedins will retire in a Canucks uniform. With knowing that, Sedins will not be first line material in the next few years. We will need to put them to 2nd line and we need our youngsters to step into that first line scoring roles. 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

I get the sentimentalism about trading the Sedins. But what if a package (not saying it's realistic) of: Ryan Johansen, David Savard, 1st round pick and Clarkson for cap relief was offered for the Sedins and a pick? Would you take it then? 

Is the main reason because it seems like the Canucks wouldn't get enough value for them? Would you decline all trades no matter how much value or just most trades?

 

[Alflives]

I get the sentimentalism about trading the Sedins. But what if a package (not saying it's realistic) of: Ryan Johansen, David Savard, 1st round pick and Clarkson for cap relief was offered for the Sedins and a pick? Would you take it then? 

Is the main reason because it seems like the Canucks wouldn't get enough value for them? Would you decline all trades no matter how much value or just most trades?

 

I would take that trade, providing we did some proper vetting on RJ.  Torts has already called him out for lack of fitness, and sat him a game too.  I would check into his character BIG TIME.

[grumpworsley]

They will finish off their contract here, enter free agency and  go to a cup contender for one last kick. Or maybe they will buy a car dealership in Richmond and sell Volvo's "They are boxy but good"

[Gollumpus]

Not looking to pick a fight here, however....

If people want to discuss hypothetical trades involving the Sedins, why don't you start with this: explain why the Sedins would want to waive in order to move to this other team? If the thought is that they would like to get a Cup, then why would they go to a bottom feeder in order to achieve this goal? And then, please go on to explain why it would make sense for the other team to offer such a trade, in which they trade their future for limited short term gain? A fairly common cry around here is that people do not want the Canucks to trade the team's future for aging vets. 

After that, I'm all in favour of discussing why Edmonton should agree to trade McDavid, Hall, Nurse, their 2016 1st and Purcell to the Canucks for the Sedins (with salary retained), a 2016 2nd and Weber.

 

Otherwise, I expect that the Sedins do not move unless they want to be moved. It has nothing to do with sentimentality on my part, the team's part, or even if it makes great sense from a team building perspective. It has everything to do with them having NTC's and how they view their place in the NHL.

Someone will insert a comment about how "NTC's don't mean you can't/won't be traded" here and provide examples. You're missing the point and you should read the entirety of the line, "It has everything to do with them having NTC's and how they view their place in the NHL."

I believe that the Sedins will choose not to waive, ever. This being said, should they decide to agree to leave Vancouver while still under their current contracts, I believe that there is a great likelihood that they would go the Mats Sundin route, and want to be traded in the off season, rather than become rentals for the playoffs.

What does the above mean? It means that the other team would have to find $14 million in cap space at the start of a season, which is less likely than a team being able to accept the Sedins contracts at the end of a season. This has been pointed out by others, and some just chose to ignore it to the detriment of their argument. 

 

So, I would be interested in seeing which teams some posters believe would want to take the Sedins (as players to fill a top-6 role), which could also afford their contracts (for the start of the 2016 or 2017 season), and what they would be willing to give up in order to acquire the Sedins? I'd also be curious as to the reasons they feel the picks/prospects/players are expendable for the short term gain of getting the Sedins? Example: they give prospect A, and they do so because they like prospect B more, or they are willing to give a 2016 1st because they believe the 2017 draft will be deeper.. 

But don't forget to start off with why the Sedins would be willing to waive their NTC's to go to this other team.

                                                     regards,                                                                                                                                                                                               G.

[C.Schneider]

Naslund isn't the same calibre player as the sedins. End of story. 

Yeah as 2 Sedins.  

Compare them 1 to 1, neither of the twins have a fraction of prime Naslund's skill set.

[higgyfan]

The only way the Sedins are traded is at the trade deadline during their contract year.  They may like the idea of being traded to a contender and then resigning with the Nucks the following year.

With their huge cap hit, the Nucks would have to retain a large portion, with the expectation that they would be rewarded with a decent return.

I can't see a team like Columbus taking on two huge contracts.  They don't spend to the cap and their still pretty far off from becoming contenders.

 

 

[Alflives]

Not looking to pick a fight here, however....

If people want to discuss hypothetical trades involving the Sedins, why don't you start with this: explain why the Sedins would want to waive in order to move to this other team? If the thought is that they would like to get a Cup, then why would they go to a bottom feeder in order to achieve this goal? And then, please go on to explain why it would make sense for the other team to offer such a trade, in which they trade their future for limited short term gain? A fairly common cry around here is that people do not want the Canucks to trade the team's future for aging vets. 

After that, I'm all in favour of discussing why Edmonton should agree to trade McDavid, Hall, Nurse, their 2016 1st and Purcell to the Canucks for the Sedins (with salary retained), a 2016 2nd and Weber.

 

Otherwise, I expect that the Sedins do not move unless they want to be moved. It has nothing to do with sentimentality on my part, the team's part, or even if it makes great sense from a team building perspective. It has everything to do with them having NTC's and how they view their place in the NHL.

Someone will insert a comment about how "NTC's don't mean you can't/won't be traded" here and provide examples. You're missing the point and you should read the entirety of the line, "It has everything to do with them having NTC's and how they view their place in the NHL."

I believe that the Sedins will choose not to waive, ever. This being said, should they decide to agree to leave Vancouver while still under their current contracts, I believe that there is a great likelihood that they would go the Mats Sundin route, and want to be traded in the off season, rather than become rentals for the playoffs.

What does the above mean? It means that the other team would have to find $14 million in cap space at the start of a season, which is less likely than a team being able to accept the Sedins contracts at the end of a season. This has been pointed out by others, and some just chose to ignore it to the detriment of their argument. 

 

So, I would be interested in seeing which teams some posters believe would want to take the Sedins (as players to fill a top-6 role), which could also afford their contracts (for the start of the 2016 or 2017 season), and what they would be willing to give up in order to acquire the Sedins? I'd also be curious as to the reasons they feel the picks/prospects/players are expendable for the short term gain of getting the Sedins? Example: they give prospect A, and they do so because they like prospect B more, or they are willing to give a 2016 1st because they believe the 2017 draft will be deeper.. 

But don't forget to start off with why the Sedins would be willing to waive their NTC's to go to this other team.

                                                     regards,                                                                                                                                                                                               G.

it's hard to debate, when the premis proposed begins with the idiocy of the Edmonton players offered.

[Carl's Jn]

sedins are here for life get use to it. we would never be able to trade for them as every team out there would try and screw with the canucks...they would offer up garbage to the canucks and tell them there old, they are 2 or even 3rd line players on other teams...they just wouldn't get the respect they deserve just as any other cancuck we hold dear to us.... they are here for life !

[MeanSeanBean]

the past doesnt really tell the full story of how a player changes 4 the better or worse in the future. Frankly i said this many times Sedins are better politions or hospital supporters then hockey players ...unless they go 4 scoring conditioning - offense will always be a problem from those vets.

 

Really? They have consistently been top scorers in the league for years. last year went 10/11, ahead of Malkin, Giroux, Tarasenko, Nash, and a few points behind Crosby, wildly accepted the best player in the NHL. This year not only do they play our first line, but night in and night out are the most dangerous players on our entire hockey team, and will lead the canucks in scoring again this year. They wear the pride of the canucks on their chest, mentor our young kids, and this year have shown they are willing to stick up for themselves, finally. But thanks for also pointing out how much these guys do for our community off the ice, because that's the only thing you got right.

[billabong]

We need them to lead the young guys and insulate them when needed BUT it'll be interesting to see how people feel about the sedins in 2-3 years time when they are 40-50 point guys and kinda just getting in the way of possible power play ice time for younger guys

 

my bet they jump on them like wild dogs, like what happened with nazzy

[Carl's Jn]

for those who believe the twins would like to leave for a contenter  they believe the canucks will be contenders in a couple of years... they would even welcome the option moving to the 2 or 3 line even and letting the youngsters develop....

[RUPERTKBD]

 

Putting the Sedins into a category with Sakic and Yzerman is more ridiculous then talking about them as potential tradeable players. 

Sakic and Yzerman are two of the best to ever lace-up.  

What's ridiculous is that you interpreted that post to mean that RR thinks the Sedins are on par with Yzerman and Sakic as players.

The point was that even at the end of their careers with the two as declining assets, their respective teams didn't attempt to trade either for what would likely have been a monumental return, one that would have pretty much immediately retooled the franchises.

Every once in a long while, certain players, through many years of exemplary service, earn the right to play their entire careers with one franchise, if they so choose. Whether certain elements of the Canucks' fan base like it or not, Daniel and Henrik are two of those players. IMO, Naslund, Bure and Linden and good as they were for the franchise, don't fall into that category.

FTR: I was in favor of a complete rebuild before the start of last season. I didn't like the Miller or Vrbata signings and I still maintain that position. That being said, I've never advocated moving the twins and never would, unless it was their choice.