(Discussion)..Take on a Contract 'Dog'?

[Phil_314]

In offering a contract, prospect and non-1st pick, the players they receive better fill some need on the team for them to even consider moving that blue-chip young guy when he's cost-controlled and will likely develop into a stud shortly.  Even with the inclusion of the bad contract it's hardly incentive to move a blue-chip guy, whereas they may move a prospect with lower upside to get rid of him but not a young gun.  Blue-chip guys are normally only moved for roster guys in their prime who can fill needs right away (e.g. Brayden Schenn for Richards as 2nd C, Eakin and 2nd for Ribeiro who became 2nd C)

Instead, in discussing about us and Philly, maybe we can replace the blue-chipper with their 1st?

For instance, 1st and Luke Schenn (pending UFA) for Hamhuis (pending UFA) plus contract player to meet a need, and maybe middling prospect/ pick to even things out might work as an alternative.  Interesting suggestion, taking their bad contract to get an asset. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Stands to reason, the worse contract you take back, the better young asset included(acquired for less return).

EG: Andy McDonald(5y x 5 mill left/guy even got demoted!), Provorov, or Sanheim

we send Sbisa, Baerstchi & a later pick(4th or 5th, say)

They MIGHT attach great value to dumping that contract. If they don't want Sbisa's 10 mill/3 yrs, send Higgy & Bart + Baer(2 UFA contracts off books next summer).

If Philly worked a couple of these sorta deals, they could get out from their cap fiasco, MUCH more quickly.

[ice orca]

sounds great, but what are the chances we get their top D prospect in return?  Think of it this way: the league shares revenue, so we are actually keeping those poor teams afloat financially, thus allowing them to afford their bad contracts, and making your point moot.  Nice eh?  Ticket prices in some of those cities are less than 10 bucks.  Hahaha.  Their owners laugh at us.

The Flyers aren't poor tho, one of the richest teams in the NHL. Their owner could buy the Canucks with his pocket change. Look at the Yotes, one of the poorest teams in the NHL and they will not part with any youth or will any other team in this tight cap era today.

[Alflives]

The Flyers aren't poor tho, one of the richest teams in the NHL. Their owner could buy the Canucks with his pocket change. Look at the Yotes, one of the poorest teams in the NHL and they will not part with any youth or will any other team in this tight cap era today.

I'm too slow on the uptake.  I still don't see why - if the Flyers are so rich - they wouldn't go the buy out route and keep their prospects?  

[Toews]

I'm too slow on the uptake.  I still don't see why - if the Flyers are so rich - they wouldn't go the buy out route and keep their prospects?  

Buyouts cost cap space as well. For example buying out AMac would have cost Philly 3.33M over the next 10 years if he was bought out in July. In a league where cap management is imperative towards icing a contendercontender, that contract is an absolute anchor. 

Nuxfan you are absolutely right, that would be a fair asking price but I personally don't think the Flyers will give up the assets in order to make that trade. You have to wonder if Benning will be one to consider such a trade as well. It is simply not practical to take on such a contract if your goal is to win in the present. 5 years is a long time to wait for that contract to end and that 4M or so you are paying for player not on your roster is crippling. The Canucks are already playing long term for Luongo, no sense adding to that number. IMO it would make much more sense drafting your own D prospect.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Buyouts cost cap space as well. For example buying out AMac would have cost Philly 3.33M over the next 10 years if he was bought out in July. In a league where cap management is imperative towards icing a contendercontender, that contract is an absolute anchor. 

Nuxfan you are absolutely right, that would be a fair asking price but I personally don't think the Flyers will give up the assets in order to make that trade. You have to wonder if Benning will be one to consider such a trade as well. It is simply not practical to take on such a contract if your goal is to win in the present. 5 years is a long time to wait for that contract to end and that 4M or so you are paying for player not on your roster is crippling. The Canucks are already playing long term for Luongo, no sense adding to that number. IMO it would make much more sense drafting your own D prospect.

Appreciate your insights here, Toews. We've got 30 examples(franchises) to go by, in a league that's become 'Orwellian' by nature.."All animals are equal; but some are more equal than others."

Some teams state their cap ceiling/budget is lower-due to their market. To me, that's automatically accepting your team will have 10~20% less depth than your biggest rivals. Would stick in my craw, if I were say, a Sens-backer.

Now if you accept a 66 mill cap for a few yrs(with 5 mill buried in a dud player), but in turn, receive one or two key young assets(towards a future championship) then it starts to make sense.

If a guy like McDonald is lousy, then Miller EARNS his 6 mill(the hard way!), & this should enhance the odds towards a higher pick the next couple yrs. Also gives the fans the guy they always need to bit** about. Allow a guy like Hammer to move on to a winner, & get another 1st there.

Burrows & the twins coming off the books is nearly 20 mill in itself. Should we just chase around after UFA auctions? Silly expenditure for overpriced, (sometimes unmotivated)crap.  It's a question that will become increasingly important. If the general economy tanks & cap flatlines, then cap space will become quite valuable, league-wide.

Lastly, in our team's stable, I see the young fwds & 'tenders-we're almost set there. Obviously the scarcity lies on the blueline. Drafting it today takes almost too long to develop. We need to acquire a couple gems in the 20~22 age group, to match up with our current youth-transition, & it may be the most difficult asset to pry away..45 yrs of looking must have revealed this truth, by NOW, I'd hope.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I see on HFBoards suggestions to package LeCav with Simmonds, to get out from their cap-constraints. Desperation that would depreciate one of their best(cost considered) assets?

Requires a team accepting almost 9 mill, AAV(Simmonds & Vinny combined). Of course, something would be coming back in dollars.

Then they just waived Gagner..appears the market might finally be waking up(Kass deal, etc...); been slow on the trade-front lately. Next yr, Philly has Voracek's massive deal kicking in..I think they really want to create some space.

We NEED D. To get Sanheim or Provorov, I suggest taking on Andy McDonald's lousy contract.

Something like: McDonald, Provorov(him & Tryamkin might help encourage Zaitsev; go with a Russkie blueline), & a 2nd or 3rd.

We send: Higgins, Shinkaruk, 4th or 5th(?)

After Higgy's deal ends, they wipe 5 mill clean, off their books.

Concurrent to this deal, send Edler out east(Ottawa, Detroit?) for a 1st & accompanying prospect.

5 MILLION Smackers..

Use it to splurge on some summer FA, or as in this example, absorb a lousy contract, in order to obtain a young star D-prospect.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Hamhuis (retained Salary) + Gaunce/Kenins + conditional draft pick (2nd or 3rd based in if caps make it past the 2nd round)

Laich + Bowey

 

WSH need cap space, that's why a rental player like Hamhuis is a good fit for them. Next year caps have to give raises for Johansen, Wilson, Laata and Orlov. Kuz is up for a big raise in two years.  Removing Laichs 4.5 cap hit next year helps them find the space.  Hamhuis being a UFA gives the Captials the option to let him walk at the end of the year if they wish. But at the same time he is an upgrade on the left side over Chorney and Schmidt.  Last year they went out and got Gleason as a rental to upgrade there D.  Currently the caps sit right next to the cap ceiling so in order to improve their roster space will need to be made.

Caps are a team loaded with young skill, Kuznetsov, Burakowsky and Vrana, so players like Shinkaruk and Baertschi don't really have much value.  The one spot they could use is help is a bottom 6 left handed shot, that's where Gaunce and Kenins come in.  

Ovi hasn't made it past the second round ever and the caps and their fans (including me) are desperate for them to string something together.  If the capitals make it to the ECF then the pick becomes a 3rd round pick.  If they get knocked out prior the pick is a 2nd round pick.

Bowey is a top prospect and caps are not going to want to give up on him. I'd suspect that they'd rather move their 1st this year than Bowey.  But without moving some cap (laich) they risk end up losing another asset due to not enough cap space. But caps also have a log jam on their defence right side.  Carlson, Niskanen, and Orlov are all ahead of Bowey on the depth chart.  I'd suspect that caps would prefer to resign orlov prior to dealing Bowey but they're also going to want to go in for a playoff run.  

Well there's my logic....Would a deal like that actually go through though?  Who knows but I'm excited to see what JB does on TD.

[Crabcakes]

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 7:38 PM, Ryan Strome said:

No no Alf its the discussion of the thread. They need cap space/room to add talent and be successful. So sure they lose on the trade but gain coveted cap space for what could be a very decent free agency. Unless of course they choose to rebuild then they wouldn't consider this however Philadelphia has a history of making big signings and trades rather then rip it all up and rebuild. They can't make big signings or trades without dumping a bad contract.

Cap space is the new holy grail in the nhl

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Hamhuis (retained Salary) + Gaunce/Kenins + conditional draft pick (2nd or 3rd based in if caps make it past the 2nd round)

Laich + Bowey

 

WSH need cap space, that's why a rental player like Hamhuis is a good fit for them. Next year caps have to give raises for Johansen, Wilson, Laata and Orlov. Kuz is up for a big raise in two years.  Removing Laichs 4.5 cap hit next year helps them find the space.  Hamhuis being a UFA gives the Captials the option to let him walk at the end of the year if they wish. But at the same time he is an upgrade on the left side over Chorney and Schmidt.  Last year they went out and got Gleason as a rental to upgrade there D.  Currently the caps sit right next to the cap ceiling so in order to improve their roster space will need to be made.

Caps are a team loaded with young skill, Kuznetsov, Burakowsky and Vrana, so players like Shinkaruk and Baertschi don't really have much value.  The one spot they could use is help is a bottom 6 left handed shot, that's where Gaunce and Kenins come in.  

Ovi hasn't made it past the second round ever and the caps and their fans (including me) are desperate for them to string something together.  If the capitals make it to the ECF then the pick becomes a 3rd round pick.  If they get knocked out prior the pick is a 2nd round pick.

Bowey is a top prospect and caps are not going to want to give up on him. I'd suspect that they'd rather move their 1st this year than Bowey.  But without moving some cap (laich) they risk end up losing another asset due to not enough cap space. But caps also have a log jam on their defence right side.  Carlson, Niskanen, and Orlov are all ahead of Bowey on the depth chart.  I'd suspect that caps would prefer to resign orlov prior to dealing Bowey but they're also going to want to go in for a playoff run.  

Well there's my logic....Would a deal like that actually go through though?  Who knows but I'm excited to see what JB does on TD.

I like it, FTG..this is the kind of deal we should leverage through available cap.

[Nuxfanabroad]

To Philly: Tanev & Sbisa(8 mill cap-hit)

 

To Van: A MacDonald(ugly contract)

Raffl

Konecny

2017 3rd rounder

 

Both packages come in just over 8 mill/per yr, cap-hit.

 

Incentive for Philly is gain exp'd, mobile vet RH-D. & dump MacDonald's contract.

 

I don't know if the return is enough, but hear this Konecny kid is pretty darn good.(also Bo's cousin, isn't he?)

[terrible.dee]

D-man???!??!?!

 

Are you watching these games at all?!?!?!

 

What's next? You want to solidify our goaltending? Get a PK Specialist? How about a true heavyweight scrapper?

 

WE NEED A STAR CENTER