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Veterans & Rookies Overall Play


coolboarder

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I think the Rookies are doing what they are supposed too and Willie is doing a real good job of developing them. Having said that it has come at the cost of the vets some how. Not sure how it is affecting them, maybe they are getting less coaching, but they are worse for sure. Burr and Hansen are exceptions to me. Both playing really hard every game. 

I'd like to see Virtanen and McCann sent to the WJC though. We can get them development time there, and in turn bring up a couple guys that need to get NHL looks before they could be exposed to waivers next year. Mainly Grenier, and Jensen, but Pedan as well will need some NHL game action before the year is out. If we drop Vrbata at the deadline we can slot either Grenier or Jensen into the roster no problem. We loose a lot of shot volume, but who knows if either of those two can do a good job. 

I'm inclined to run out

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Burr Sutter Virtanen

Baer Horvat Grenier

Higgi McCann Dorsett

Jensen slotting in whenever possible.

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It's another close game that could have gone either way.  That means minor adjustments are needed, not major ones.

Major changes take time anyway.  It's not like GM's are knocking down Benning's door to give him all their good players.

The season has been entertaining so far, the team is in the playoff hunt, and they're also getting some new young players to watch.  Things are on track.

Wut da?  I'm plussing a BanTSN comment.  The world is officially ending.

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not all teams are Edmonton.  Look at the Hawks and Kings.  That's the last five Cups.  Would Macdavid have looked good on our team, or Chychrun next year?  Top picks do make a difference, unless it's the Oilers.

We really have the "lets tank" doofus parade coming out again?  Really?

Hey... let me break it to you again with facts.  Sucking isn't an effective path to being good.  Most teams that have been at the bottom of the league since the salary cap came in continue to be at the bottom of the league.  Those are measurable facts... go talk to Toronto.

No team who finished last in the league in any year since the salary cap has won the Cup.  Most of them have missed the playoffs every year.

Chicago got lucky and won the draft lottery, moving up to pick 1st overall in a year that they picked up Kane .  Most of the productive players on their Cup winning teams were picked up MUCH later and in mid rounds or acquired outside the draft.  You don't have to suck to do that.

LA managed to turn late picks into players who they could then trade for assets.

How many cups have Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida, NYI, St. Louis won since they managed to be worst in the league?  How many years of missed playoffs have most of those team had.

Good teams stay good in this league and bad teams stay bad.  Your plan is to somehow magically become one of the very few exceptions to that rule?  You can't even take being 2nd in the division without having a freak out... just think about a decade of complete futility without a sniff at the playoffs. 

In the cap world you have to either get incredibly lucky or just draft well regardless of the position.  Players can get similar money whichever team they play for nowadays, so they decide to play for teams which give them a chance to win.  Being a sucky team means no UFAs unless you dramatically overpay.

You also have to somehow magically get better before your young players start coming off their ELC's because they will have had enough of losing that they will demand to be overpaid or demand out.  That turns into a revolving door where you lose players at the same pace you draft them.

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One thing I noticed... the Sedins looks tired.  They are starting to remind me of the 04-07 Sedins.... where they put up points, but not as dynamic as the Art Ross years.  Obviously they're getting older, same with Burrows, but maybe they need a shake up? 

When was the last time you see either twins driving the net?  Henrik doesn't do as many cross-ice passes as before.  They were never speedsters, but they have lots a step or two.

 

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The Sedins haven't been fantastic defensively and look really sloppy at times.

Vbrata has been absolutely terrible. He needs to go.

Sutter has been dependable and we've gotten what we expected from him, can't complain.

Burrows has been brilliant and is proving a really valuable role-model for the young guys.

Hansen has played dependable all season long if not better than usual. He's the only consistent, given player who you know what you're getting every single season.

Horvat has been TERRIBLE this season. At times he's shown some good signs of offensive and defensive play but for the most part his defence has been terrible and he's not getting called out on it. I think we need to change something here to help him out.

Dorsett and Prust have been better than I expected.

Higgins is getting his game going really quickly and fits nicely with McCann. Hard to say we need to trade him when he's one of our best players right now.

McCann has been out of this world, hopefully that Larsson hit doesn't have him out too long. Defensive and offensive machine for us so far.

Virtanen has shown some good and bad so far, but like McCann we need to play him more than 9 minutes a game or play someone else who can bring more to the table.

Baertschi hasn't been great defensively but has shown amazing skill in the offensive zone and great vision, I think we need to coach him better and find a way to tap into that potential more because he's got some elite-level offensive skill. Benching him in the press-box isn't going to help, we need to play him with skilled guys.

Edler has been pretty good so far, brutal last couple of games defensively but you know what you're getting from him.

Tanev has been our rock, you can see how bad our defence is without him. He is IMO our defensive MVP. Edler's game turns to crap without him.

Hamhuis has been stable so far, nothing flashy but like Tanev, we need him to stick around or we'll fall apart with too many AHLers.

Sbisa has been pretty good for us considering how bad he's played in the past, he's been physical, putting up points and defensively not as bad as he could be.

Weber has been a surprise so far early in the season but the more he plays, the more mistakes he makes.

Hutton has been a typical rookie - flashes of absolute brilliance followed by rookie mistakes and brain farts. I'd rather he learned the game in the AHL before making those mistakes in the big league but we don't have much of a choice with the thin defence JB has put together here.

Bartkowski has been pretty bad defensively so far, doesn't play very physically but is a smooth skater.

Miller is getting fatigued, and running him into the ground so early in the season is just stupid. We've seen our backup can play games, he should at least get the back-to-backs against terrible Eastern conference teams. Miller can't play 70+ games and then do well in the playoffs, that simply just doesn't happen anymore

 

TL;DR - Sedins and Vbrata have been bad defensively, our defence ideally needs one more top-4 guy, the kids have been alright but their mistakes cost us at times.

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The Sedins haven't been fantastic defensively and look really sloppy at times.

Vbrata has been absolutely terrible. He needs to go.

Sutter has been dependable and we've gotten what we expected from him, can't complain.

Burrows has been brilliant and is proving a really valuable role-model for the young guys.

Hansen has played dependable all season long if not better than usual. He's the only consistent, given player who you know what you're getting every single season.

Horvat has been TERRIBLE this season. At times he's shown some good signs of offensive and defensive play but for the most part his defence has been terrible and he's not getting called out on it. I think we need to change something here to help him out.

Dorsett and Prust have been better than I expected.

Higgins is getting his game going really quickly and fits nicely with McCann. Hard to say we need to trade him when he's one of our best players right now.

McCann has been out of this world, hopefully that Larsson hit doesn't have him out too long. Defensive and offensive machine for us so far.

Virtanen has shown some good and bad so far, but like McCann we need to play him more than 9 minutes a game or play someone else who can bring more to the table.

Baertschi hasn't been great defensively but has shown amazing skill in the offensive zone and great vision, I think we need to coach him better and find a way to tap into that potential more because he's got some elite-level offensive skill. Benching him in the press-box isn't going to help, we need to play him with skilled guys.

Edler has been pretty good so far, brutal last couple of games defensively but you know what you're getting from him.

Tanev has been our rock, you can see how bad our defence is without him. He is IMO our defensive MVP. Edler's game turns to crap without him.

Hamhuis has been stable so far, nothing flashy but like Tanev, we need him to stick around or we'll fall apart with too many AHLers.

Sbisa has been pretty good for us considering how bad he's played in the past, he's been physical, putting up points and defensively not as bad as he could be.

Weber has been a surprise so far early in the season but the more he plays, the more mistakes he makes.

Hutton has been a typical rookie - flashes of absolute brilliance followed by rookie mistakes and brain farts. I'd rather he learned the game in the AHL before making those mistakes in the big league but we don't have much of a choice with the thin defence JB has put together here.

Bartkowski has been pretty bad defensively so far, doesn't play very physically but is a smooth skater.

Miller is getting fatigued, and running him into the ground so early in the season is just stupid. We've seen our backup can play games, he should at least get the back-to-backs against terrible Eastern conference teams. Miller can't play 70+ games and then do well in the playoffs, that simply just doesn't happen anymore

 

TL;DR - Sedins and Vbrata have been bad defensively, our defence ideally needs one more top-4 guy, the kids have been alright but their mistakes cost us at times.

Pretty decent analysis Down Unda...Although,I would say that Vrbata has been more unlucky than terrible...As for Hutton,he just oozes poise and confidence (of course he going to make mistakes,this being his NHL rookie year),but why on earth would you send him to the AHL..?

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and we will get a top pick!  I'm just pissed we will end up in the middle again.  I know we got McCann at 24, but that was fluke luck that the other teams were just stupid.  We need to be good or bad, but not this middle stuff.

Let's be Edmonton for the next decade or so. That sounds fun.

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Let's be Edmonton for the next decade or so. That sounds fun.

Why is this always the standard comeback when anyone suggests that losing and getting a top draft pick would not be the end of the world?

You do realize that just like drafting a top player doesn't guarantee future Stanley cups, losing for a few seasons doesn't guarantee losing for a decade.

Being a one round playoff team that barely squeaked in is the absolute worst place to be for several years straight. Unless the 2 games of playoff revenue are important to the owners and the fickle fans who fear losing don't buy tickets if we don't give the appearance that we have a playoff chance (even though this roster of vets has clearly proven they no longer give us a real chance). The real problem is that many fans won't buy tickets unless we are a middling team at worst so the owners are likely concerned that turning the corner on this core will lead to less revenue.

I know I would rather take a bigger chance on kids and get rid of more vets to hopefully change the culture of this team. Even if they add a few other vets to the mix. Just something different and fresh. They play like they deserve to win without showing up or actually putting the work in, especially against weak teams. 

The young players are the only exciting thing about this team right now. The vets are not and neither is the coach. Serviceable at best but just more of the same we have seen here since 2011.

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Vrbata's been "out of sorts" from day one, had chemistry with Bonino last year, is having a hard time finding where he fits in this year, I think McCann is the answer.

Higgins-McCann-Vrbata

Until we get this worked out I think it's messing with our team chemistry somewhat.

 

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We really have the "lets tank" doofus parade coming out again?  Really?

Hey... let me break it to you again with facts.  Sucking isn't an effective path to being good.  Most teams that have been at the bottom of the league since the salary cap came in continue to be at the bottom of the league.  Those are measurable facts... go talk to Toronto.

No team who finished last in the league in any year since the salary cap has won the Cup.  Most of them have missed the playoffs every year.

Chicago got lucky and won the draft lottery, moving up to pick 1st overall in a year that they picked up Kane .  Most of the productive players on their Cup winning teams were picked up MUCH later and in mid rounds or acquired outside the draft.  You don't have to suck to do that.

LA managed to turn late picks into players who they could then trade for assets.

How many cups have Edmonton, Buffalo, Florida, NYI, St. Louis won since they managed to be worst in the league?  How many years of missed playoffs have most of those team had.

Good teams stay good in this league and bad teams stay bad.  Your plan is to somehow magically become one of the very few exceptions to that rule?  You can't even take being 2nd in the division without having a freak out... just think about a decade of complete futility without a sniff at the playoffs. 

In the cap world you have to either get incredibly lucky or just draft well regardless of the position.  Players can get similar money whichever team they play for nowadays, so they decide to play for teams which give them a chance to win.  Being a sucky team means no UFAs unless you dramatically overpay.

You also have to somehow magically get better before your young players start coming off their ELC's because they will have had enough of losing that they will demand to be overpaid or demand out.  That turns into a revolving door where you lose players at the same pace you draft them.

I hear what you're saying, and it's a good argument.  Whether it's by the draft or trade, it's the young guys who become our future core that I see as the most important part of our team.  The question will be: is our core better than the other Cup contending teams' cores?  If they are, then we can have a chance to win every year.  If they aren't then we get stuck like we have been - in the middle, and having a lucky run once in a blue moon - like 2011, 1994, 1982.  I would rather dip now, and get top picks - prospects - who are so darned good as a core we are Cup contenders during their cycle.  People keep bringing up the Redwings as the model.  I disagree.  They are a middle of the road team, with middle of the road talent.  They are not a true Cup contender, and will need to bottom out and get top picks to truly contend. 

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It's another close game that could have gone either way.  That means minor adjustments are needed, not major ones.

Major changes take time anyway.  It's not like GM's are knocking down Benning's door to give him all their good players.

The season has been entertaining so far, the team is in the playoff hunt, and they're also getting some new young players to watch.  Things are on track.

If on track means to a top three pick, then I'm happy.

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Why is this always the standard comeback when anyone suggests that losing and getting a top draft pick would not be the end of the world?

You do realize that just like drafting a top player doesn't guarantee future Stanley cups, losing for a few seasons doesn't guarantee losing for a decade.

Being a one round playoff team that barely squeaked in is the absolute worst place to be for several years straight. Unless the 2 games of playoff revenue are important to the owners and the fickle fans who fear losing don't buy tickets if we don't give the appearance that we have a playoff chance (even though this roster of vets has clearly proven they no longer give us a real chance). The real problem is that many fans won't buy tickets unless we are a middling team at worst so the owners are likely concerned that turning the corner on this core will lead to less revenue.

I know I would rather take a bigger chance on kids and get rid of more vets to hopefully change the culture of this team. Even if they add a few other vets to the mix. Just something different and fresh. They play like they deserve to win without showing up or actually putting the work in, especially against weak teams. 

The young players are the only exciting thing about this team right now. The vets are not and neither is the coach. Serviceable at best but just more of the same we have seen here since 2011.

It's in your head and your attitude.

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Why is this always the standard comeback when anyone suggests that losing and getting a top draft pick would not be the end of the world?

You do realize that just like drafting a top player doesn't guarantee future Stanley cups, losing for a few seasons doesn't guarantee losing for a decade.

Being a one round playoff team that barely squeaked in is the absolute worst place to be for several years straight. Unless the 2 games of playoff revenue are important to the owners and the fickle fans who fear losing don't buy tickets if we don't give the appearance that we have a playoff chance (even though this roster of vets has clearly proven they no longer give us a real chance). The real problem is that many fans won't buy tickets unless we are a middling team at worst so the owners are likely concerned that turning the corner on this core will lead to less revenue.

I know I would rather take a bigger chance on kids and get rid of more vets to hopefully change the culture of this team. Even if they add a few other vets to the mix. Just something different and fresh. They play like they deserve to win without showing up or actually putting the work in, especially against weak teams. 

The young players are the only exciting thing about this team right now. The vets are not and neither is the coach. Serviceable at best but just more of the same we have seen here since 2011.

That is your opinion. Others have a different one.

I have enjoyed Sutter, Burr, Prust Hansen, Dorsett, Tanev, Sbisa, Bartowski and last night Biega and Higgin's play. The kids have been fine, Hutton outstanding but I don't watch them with rose tinted goggles like you obviously do. 

As for the insidious chipping away at the coaches reputation it wreaks of immaturity imo, but hey, we drove away an outstanding coach in AV, why not another one. Anything to help the attention span challenged.

We are 14 games into the season if you can only get excited by young players I suggest you go watch the juniors.

As for Willie, he has nothing he needs to prove at this stage of the season after his success, despite last year's injury ravaged nightmare.

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It's in your head and your attitude.

That is convenient but false. The results speak for themselves. This team got destroyed in the first round by one of if not the worst puck possession team. They got a lead in the last game against Calgary and once again $&!# the bed by not playing like they had to work to win. Same as this year. They only play with urgency in spurts. And Desjardins rewards the vets for playing terribly. Even his comments about McCann show where he really is - saying he doesn't know if McCann makes the pp better. Can he possibly make it worse?

I have watched the Canucks for decades and there haven't been too many periods of time where my interest level in them was lower. I have seen the same movie for several years. Play well enough to draft outside the top 10 but not able to actually compete in the playoffs. I as one fan would prefer to take more chance on the kids whatever the end result is. I realize not all fans feel that way. But at least it would be exciting to watch and something different to look forward to. I already know how the current rerun ends.

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Our owner a penny pincher? He's paying severance to 2 coaches, a former GM, a few assistant GM's and scouts that were let go this year... I think even the trainer was replaced. He's even paid for sleep doctors and a star chef to do catering at games. The owner is a younger version of Mr. Burns.

Oh, and don't forget the Italian "mental man" Demichelis that Aqua was going to have build the "mind room" for the team lol. 

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