[Proposal] Trading our forwards for a top defenceman

[aGENT]

There is a youngish, RH, defensive defenseman rumoured to be available. His name is Luke Schenn. He could be available for a spare winger.

The time to go after Larsson was last year, when his game was in flux.

 

Schenn shouldn't cost us one of our top young wingers. His value right now is low. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

There is a youngish, RH, defensive defenseman rumoured to be available. His name is Luke Schenn. He could be available for a spare winger.

The time to go after Larsson was last year, when his game was in flux.

 

I agree last year was the perfect time to go after Larsson and I pushed pretty hard for it, but we missed the boat thinking Clendening and Corrado would step up to the plate. This team has gone from losing Ehrhoff and Salo on the right hand side (two of our best) to losing Bieksa, Clendening and Corrado without replacing any of them.

Schenn's having a surprisingly decent year but he's just not defensively sound enough in my books. Great physical force but he can be sloppy at times defensively, a bit similar to Sbisa.

While last year was Larsson's down year, perhaps this year is Severson's down year? He's racking up assists but is only being used as a 3rd pairing, sub-20 minute defenceman most of the time this season. I know he's not as strong defensively as Larsson, but if he could be had for cheaper or Larsson is untouchable then we could go after him?

[VanNuck]

Agreed, they should acquire a defenseman. Schenn sound intruiging, but he's too one-dimensional in my opinion. Hamhuis already has that job as the shutdown guy. Should find someone who has more offensive ability, plus a winning resume.

[aGENT]

Agreed, they should acquire a defenseman. Schenn sound intruiging, but he's too one-dimensional in my opinion. Hamhuis already has that job as the shutdown guy. Should find someone who has more offensive ability, plus a winning resume.

Hamhuis won't likely be here after ~February. He's also not particularly large or mean. Nor does he play the right side. 

I'm WAY on board with picking up Schenn for next to nothing as some decent right side, NHL depth with size/reclamation project. But we still need a young righty D capable of a top 4 role soon' ish.

[D-Money]

Schenn shouldn't cost us one of our top young wingers. His value right now is low. 

I wasn't thinking "top young winger", just winger. Higgins?

[aGENT]

I wasn't thinking "top young winger", just winger. Higgins?

I doubt he even costs that. He'd be largely a cap dump at this point. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Hamhuis won't likely be here after ~February. He's also not particularly large or mean. Nor does he play the right side. 

I'm WAY on board with picking up Schenn for next to nothing as some decent right side, NHL depth with size/reclamation project. But we still need a young righty D capable of a top 4 role soon' ish.

I would do Higgins + 3rd or 4th round pick for Schenn and have Schenn as our 3rd pairing right handed defenceman. We need depth guys who are capable of playing 20+ minutes in the event of a top-4 injury. Weber and Bartkowski are really in the realm of 7th defenceman who can play 15 minutes in case of 1 injury. A good defence doesn't have these guys in their top-4 unless half the defence is injured at once.

I wonder if Philadelphia would be willing to trade Schenn for one of our few 2nd round picks even? A 2nd round pick at the least, Higgins + 2nd or 3rd at the most.

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - top-4 D (eg. Larsson)

Hamhuis (cheap re-sign) - Schenn

Bartkowski

 

Suddenly there's a deep defence, and it'd only really cost us Higgins (+/- a 2nd rounder), Shinkaruk, Sbisa and maybe some other pieces depending on the top-4 defenceman.

[Hairy Kneel]

For the first time in years were trading out of need not desperation (Stanley Cup desperation that is) JB has Xmas unofficial deadline and then up to the actual trading deadline. I think teams have been trying to wait us out but this year I think the price will go up for Vrbata and Hamuis. (also Higgins and Prust possibly). 

As long as we don't get fleeced and maximize our draft picks we'll be fine.

[falcon45ca]

Hamhuis won't likely be here after ~February. He's also not particularly large or mean. Nor does he play the right side. 

I'm WAY on board with picking up Schenn for next to nothing as some decent right side, NHL depth with size/reclamation project. But we still need a young righty D capable of a top 4 role soon' ish.

You don't think Schenn looks like a rental player? He's gonna cost more than Hammer when he becomes a UFA this summer, & if Biega stays he's due a raise, ditto Bartkowski & Weber. 

[Ghostsof1915]

For the first time in years were trading out of need not desperation (Stanley Cup desperation that is) JB has Xmas unofficial deadline and then up to the actual trading deadline. I think teams have been trying to wait us out but this year I think the price will go up for Vrbata and Hamuis. (also Higgins and Prust possibly). 

As long as we don't get fleeced and maximize our draft picks we'll be fine.

When you put up artificial deadlines, you will get fleeced. We're not going to part with McCann, Virtanen, Shink, etc. So that leaves you with Vrbata, Hamhuis, and Higgins. All might attract interest at the trade deadline. But I we'd probably get draft picks instead of young d-men. I think the best chance is to find two outstanding d-men as college free agents (especially if one is right handed) and sign them. I'm doubtful we can get a trade that helps us now unless Jensen starts lighting it up in the AHL. Maybe Utica should move Mackenzie Stewart back to a defensemen? 

[The Lock]

I wouldn't go calling Shinkaruk a scrap. 1st round pick, goal-per-game scorer in his second AHL year, that's about as valuable an asset as we have. Shinkaruk and Sbisa are both young and the Devils desperately need a future top-6 scoring forward.

You're missing the point. In order to get a top player, you generally need to give up a top player. Not prospect (unless if they're top prospects). Not random players on the team.

Your proposal likely would not work as we'd most likely be asked to give up someone like Horvat or Virtanen to get Larsson....

[aGENT]

You don't think Schenn looks like a rental player? He's gonna cost more than Hammer when he becomes a UFA this summer, & if Biega stays he's due a raise, ditto Bartkowski & Weber. 

Schenn is a reclamation project. You basically hope a new team, new coaches, a new partner and system can get him back on track with the promise he once showed. He'd also be right side depth and size we're SEVERELY lacking both of. 

Schenn is in no place to be demanding an increase in pay. He's basically down to a 6th/7th D in Philly. He'll be lucky to get what he's making now. 

Biega is a comet other than call ups. At least one of Weber / Bartowski will not be re-signed. 

We also have millions coming off the books this summer. Hamhuis and Vrbata alone are almost10m. 

[Alflives]

Schenn is a reclamation project. You basically hope a new team, new coaches, a new partner and system can get him back on track with the promise he once showed. He'd also be right side depth and size we're SEVERELY lacking both of. 

Schenn is in no place to be demanding an increase in pay. He's basically down to a 6th/7th D in Philly. He'll be lucky to get what he's making now. 

Biega is a comet other than call ups. At least one of Weber / Bartowski will not be re-signed. 

We also have millions coming off the books this summer. Hamhuis and Vrbata alone are almost10m. 

Schenn might be a really good partner for Hutton: Big, tough, and a physical guy?

[Blömqvist]

While last year was Larsson's down year, perhaps this year is Severson's down year? He's racking up assists but is only being used as a 3rd pairing, sub-20 minute defenceman most of the time this season. I know he's not as strong defensively as Larsson, but if he could be had for cheaper or Larsson is untouchable then we could go after him?

Severson could be had for cheaper. He played outstanding last season but because Larrson is in their top pair they won't consider trading him unless it's an overpayment; Larsson is just too valuable to them righ now, much like how Tanev is just too valuable to us here.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

They don't have enough defencemen to completely fill a 24 minute void on their blueline, that's why Sbisa helps, so it's certainly not just Shinkaruk for Larsson straight up.

If we were going that route I'd offer Virtanen for Larsson straight up, which I would do instantly and I'm sure the Devils would too IF they believed their other young defencemen are capable enough of filling Larsson's shoes by themselves. If not, they'd probably prefer Shinkaruk + Sbisa.

I'd do Virtanen for Larsson straight up too but I wonder if NJ would.  The longer Virtanen kicks around in and out of the press box, the less likely it seems to me.  At this stage, Larsson is clearly headed the right way in his development whereas with Virtanen there are more questions, despite the obvious potential and tools.

[Canuck Surfer]

We can all see the log-jam here in Vancouver up front, with Gaunce and Shinkaruk playing amazingly in Utica and still nowhere near cracking the roster. Virtanen and McCann are staying around, and the veterans are playing well, so we've just got a lot of value at wing which is being wasted. Meanwhile, we've got a gaping hole on defence which is even more apparent with injuries to Sbisa and Tanev.

The New Jersey Devils are the opposite - they have a plethora of strong young defencemen but their forwards are ageing and they could desperately use offensive help, especially young guys. In the past I've said we should target Severson but now our main hole is a physical, shutdown right handed defenceman to play with Edler or Hutton in our top-4 in the future as well as now.

I say we go after Adam Larsson, and go after him hard. We just saw what he's capable of first hand, he's not flashy but he's a dependable, consistent right handed shutdown defenceman with great size. Right now all our righties are tiny (in particular Biega, Weber and Bartkowski when he plays on the right) and no one really plays well defensively aside from Tanev and Hamhuis. Larsson is the type of defenceman who can play 20 minutes this season but at only 22 years old, he'll be on this blueline for another decade in our top-4. Subban is up and coming but still a long way away from the NHL physically, and I believe Larsson would be the ideal partner for Hutton. Of course, he could also play with fellow Swede Edler and leave Tanev and Hutton as a great duo. Suddenly we have two shutdown defencemen (Tanev and Larsson) and two puck movers (Edler and Hutton) who will be on this defence for a long time to come.

Obviously taking their top pairing defenceman won't be easy and I think we'd have to pay them back with a defenceman.

TO NJD: Luca Sbisa or Bartkowski + one of Jensen, Shinkaruk, Baertschi or Gaunce

TO VAN: Adam Larsson

Depending on how much they want, I'd be willing to part with Shinkaruk and Sbisa at the very most, or Jensen and Sbisa at the least (maybe they throw in a pick as well). Shinkaruk is a fantastic future top-6 forward so I'd rather hold on to him. I don't believe Shinkaruk alone would fetch us Larsson and they'd need some sort of defensive compensation. Essentially we're upgrading a bottom pairing defenceman with the value of a top AHL scorer into a top-4 defenceman.

At the most, Sbisa + Shinkaruk, at the least, Bartkowski + Jensen + maybe a pick, but I'd be willing to do any combination of those to land Larsson.

This season:

Edler - Tanev

Hamhuis - Larsson

Hutton - Sbisa/Bartkowski (whoever's left)

 

Next season:

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Larsson

Hamhuis (cheap) - UFA

I applaud the suggestion of Larsson as he fills a need in a pretty big way from our standpoint.

But he fills the same need for Jersey. He's 22, they are a rebuilding team and he's starting to look like a sure thing. He's also a 4th overall pick with his early scouting reports pegging him as a much more dynamic Edler type player because he has similar size, he hits, a shot but better agility, mobility, athleticism, puck skills, speed...

I doubt they consider any deal short of a large overpayment considering their rebuilding walk in life. And the offer is just not up to the value of Larsson. Nor do they need Sbisa. They have Green, Moore, Gelinas and Merrill on the left side of their D. Hell even Schlemko as a depth guy. You need to have both a solid needs filled proposal and produce compelling value.

There is a marginally better chance we get Severson. But marginally better than nearly zero. He's their second best right handed D, and overall best puck moving guy. And he's also young on a rebuilding team. Pop Virtanen or McCann in and fill a bigger need still with a young guy and maybe they talk. But I'm not going there.

You targeted Bowey out of Washington in another thread. That would be a much more viable concept. Funny enough, even though Bowey is an unestablished 2knd round pick, ergo not as valuable as an established 4th overall guy in Larsson, there you suggested a much bigger package of Hamuis and Shinkaruk? In any case win now Washinton who has NIskanen & Norris candidate John Carlson as RHD locked up long term. Your odds of getting a conversation started are much better!

There is a youngish, RH, defensive defenseman rumoured to be available. His name is Luke Schenn. He could be available for a spare winger.

The time to go after Larsson was last year, when his game was in flux.

 

Schenn would probably be a serviceable 3rd pairing guy. Slash reclamation project. Maybe he can recover and be slightly more? But I would be cautious in suggesting that? He has speed and mobility issues at the heart of reasons why he has not lived up to expectations. Something we are gearing away from.

In any case that makes him at best perhaps next years depth UFA D signing at under $2 mill. Not a trade target.

Not unless he is the throw in or cap balancer in a larger deal.