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[INQUIRY] BUF - trade partner for a Center?


ABNuck

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Buffalo seems to have created a log jam for themselves at Center (ROR signed longterm, Eichel, Reinhart, Girgensons...4 players who will all want the top 3 spots). Let's assume ROR and Eichel are the current/future top 2 C-men...this leaves Reinhart and Ziggy fighting for icetime at #3. I don't think either player swapping in/out at wing is a good longterm solution for them...so is one of them (or both) available sometime soon (TD day or D-day)? I am positive Reinhart will be a future 1C, not so sure about Ziggy but it's possible. So the question is:

1/ Is it worth pursuing either of them?

2/ What would it take to land one?

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How are we different?

1-2 years.

H. Sedin, Horvat, Sutter, McCann, Cassels?

Good point...but I'd rather have a top prospect like that in OUR stables instead of theirs. And the idea is, who will replace Hank at 1C? A trade would make 1 of ours expendable, trade for a top D prospect?

Bottom line is: would you rather have Sam Reinhart or stick with McCann and Cassels? Given the shot, I think I'd take Reinhart.

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Good point...but I'd rather have a top prospect like that in OUR stables instead of theirs. And the idea is, who will replace Hank at 1C? A trade would make 1 of ours expendable, trade for a top D prospect?

Bottom line is: would you rather have Sam Reinhart or stick with McCann and Cassels? Given the shot, I think I'd take Reinhart.

What reason do you have to believe that McCann or Horvat can't be that 1C besides the idea that 'drafted higher' automatically means 'higher potential'.

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Right now, Girgensons has a shot to be 1C/2C in the long term but his potential is still unknown. The way I see it, it'll be Eichel, Reinhart, ROR down the middle for years to come, leaving Girgs to either play the wing or traded. I would trade Girgs for a goalie of the future if possible.

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Right now, Girgensons has a shot to be 1C/2C in the long term but his potential is still unknown. The way I see it, it'll be Eichel, Reinhart, ROR down the middle for years to come, leaving Girgs to either play the wing or traded. I would trade Girgs for a goalie of the future if possible.

nope.  Demko, if traded, is going for an elite D, or sure fire number one C.  Don't want some guy who might be something one day.  

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Right now, Girgensons has a shot to be 1C/2C in the long term but his potential is still unknown. The way I see it, it'll be Eichel, Reinhart, ROR down the middle for years to come, leaving Girgs to either play the wing or traded. I would trade Girgs for a goalie of the future if possible.

This outlines exactly what I'm getting at...out of Eichel, Reinhart and ROR who is 3rd?

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Good point...but I'd rather have a top prospect like that in OUR stables instead of theirs. And the idea is, who will replace Hank at 1C? A trade would make 1 of ours expendable, trade for a top D prospect?

Bottom line is: would you rather have Sam Reinhart or stick with McCann and Cassels? Given the shot, I think I'd take Reinhart.

he's not as good as McCann.  I'll keep McCann.  That was easy.  

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This outlines exactly what I'm getting at...out of Eichel, Reinhart and ROR who is 3rd?

Who's the 3rd C? ROR. In that particular order, if everyone plays to their potential, that's the order it'll be in.

nope.  Demko, if traded, is going for an elite D, or sure fire number one C.  Don't want some guy who might be something one day.  

I didn't say we should go after Girgensons. I'm saying what Buffalo should do in their situation. How did that even change to us trading for Girgs?

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This outlines exactly what I'm getting at...out of Eichel, Reinhart and ROR who is 3rd?

ROR in my mind is the 3rd but easily interchanges up an down the line up depending on what game an team is on the docket. but truely he is 3rd but could be 2 or 1  on alot of teams in the league right now his type is rare which makes hime even more valuable.

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Who's the 3rd C? ROR. In that particular order, if everyone plays to their potential, that's the order it'll be in.

I didn't say we should go after Girgensons. I'm saying what Buffalo should do in their situation. How did that even change to us trading for Girgs?

maybe because this furry assed dumb alien is still learning to read English?;)  

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No way Jack (young stud center) or O'Reilly (isn't he their #1 while the kids develop?) leaves.

Even Girgensons and Reinhart are still very young, and it wouldn't make sense for them to try and fill a need by trading them now when there's so much potential (especially in Sam's case, which was why he was a top prospect).  Look, they're on the upswing after a retool and they have one of the smartest GM's in the league (Tim Murray, who bought low on Kane and Bogo with Myers and other guys, got Lehner for the future and stockpiled youth) so he most likely won't just trade a young-and-improving guy for the now.  Reinhart and O'Reilly have also played on the wing during their careers (R.O.R. during his Avalanche days) and who's to say that we won't see a Hull and Oates-type pairing with Eichel and Reinhart, with O'Reilly as #2 and Girg as #3?  Regardless, doubt they'll move any of them unless it helps them moving forward.      

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So a couple of ya'll are saying ROR is 3rd? Again this just reinforces my point. They acquired ROR and contracted him to an average salary cap hit of 6.2mil (and actually paying him 11mil in salary next year)...do you really think he'll be OK with 3rd line minutes? Is 11 million dollars a good investment for a 3rd line Center? I can think of cheaper options which would free up a ton of cash to improve the team even further.

Also as suggested ROR could be moved to wing...haven't they already done this with Ennis? And they went out and acquired Kane and Moulson as top 6 wingers, so as stated before...starting to look like a bit of a logjam.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good position for them to be in, but it's also one that they may be able to take advantage of...so what can they do that 1/ relieves the logjam and 2/ adds depth to the organization so that they can compete sooner rather than later. This is also a good position for other teams as well...they have something others want, and well, others want one of them. Makes it a WIN-WIN.

As for Center depth this year they also have Legwand (UFA) and McCormick (both bottom 6 guys). Again, somebody has to move to wing...you typically don't play 7 natural Centermen at Center in one game. (ROR, Eichel, Ennis, Reinhart, Girgensons, Legwand and McCormick).

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So then after analyzing all this I think I have a proposal for them that they might bite on (a place to start negotiating):

McCann, Higgins and 2016 3rd for Reinhart

Reasons:

1/ McCann may be enough of a good prospect that when coupled with a 3rd may be considered a replacement for Reinhart.

2/ Higgins secures the deal by giving them a natural winger.

3/ we get to free up 2.5mil now plus the mil we have equals 3.5mil (go after a trade for a Top 4 D?).

4/ Frees up our own logjam at winger (once Prust is back).

Seems like WIN-WIN to me!

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McCann, Higgins and 2016 3rd for Reinhart

Reasons:

1/ McCann may be enough of a good prospect that when coupled with a 3rd may be considered a replacement for Reinhart.

2/ Higgins secures the deal by giving them a natural winger.

3/ we get to free up 2.5mil now plus the mil we have equals 3.5mil (go after a trade for a Top 4 D?).

4/ Frees up our own logjam at winger (once Prust is back).

Seems like WIN-WIN to me!

I'd say pass.  McCann alone is already a very solid prospect with #1 C potential.  Considering that he's already gotten 5 goals (tied for the Canucks team lead and 2nd behind Eichel on the Sabres) with no power-play time and only 4th line minutes, I'm not hoping to see him get traded since there's probably more offense to come from him with bigger minutes and more responsibility. At this point this trade is both a step back (by comparison, what has Reinhart proven in the NHL?) and a gamble based on his family pedigree and perceived future potential which may or may not come to fruition.  

Now if that deal was for Ristolainen I'd reconsider (not saying the Sabres would do that but it'd help us tremendously).   

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I'd say pass.  McCann alone is already a very solid prospect with #1 C potential.  Considering that he's already gotten 5 goals (tied for the Canucks team lead and 2nd behind Eichel on the Sabres) with no power-play time and only 4th line minutes, I'm not hoping to see him get traded since there's probably more offense to come from him with bigger minutes and more responsibility. At this point this trade is both a step back (by comparison, what has Reinhart proven in the NHL?) and a gamble based on his family pedigree and perceived future potential which may or may not come to fruition.  
Now if that deal was for Ristolainen I'd reconsider (not saying the Sabres would do that but it'd help us tremendously).   

I dunno...a bunch of experts smarter than anyone on CDC all seem to agree that Reinhart has a much higher upside (both higher ceiling and potential to reach it) than Jared. He's slightly bigger which is a plus down the middle in today's NHL. My assessment is that Sam is a future 1C and Jared's ceiling is a 2C on a strong team (maybe a 1C on a weaker team).

I'm going to reiterate a point that I made in another thread: we need to think about replacements for the Sedins NOW...secure their replacements rather than "hoping" for a replacement. At this point I'd say Sam IS a replacement next year whereas Jared is a MAYBE replacement...I just can't see him replacing Hank anytime soon (maybe a 3 to 5 year project?)

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So a couple of ya'll are saying ROR is 3rd? Again this just reinforces my point. They acquired ROR and contracted him to an average salary cap hit of 6.2mil (and actually paying him 11mil in salary next year)...do you really think he'll be OK with 3rd line minutes? Is 11 million dollars a good investment for a 3rd line Center? I can think of cheaper options which would free up a ton of cash to improve the team even further.

Also as suggested ROR could be moved to wing...haven't they already done this with Ennis? And they went out and acquired Kane and Moulson as top 6 wingers, so as stated before...starting to look like a bit of a logjam.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good position for them to be in, but it's also one that they may be able to take advantage of...so what can they do that 1/ relieves the logjam and 2/ adds depth to the organization so that they can compete sooner rather than later. This is also a good position for other teams as well...they have something others want, and well, others want one of them. Makes it a WIN-WIN.

As for Center depth this year they also have Legwand (UFA) and McCormick (both bottom 6 guys). Again, somebody has to move to wing...you typically don't play 7 natural Centermen at Center in one game. (ROR, Eichel, Ennis, Reinhart, Girgensons, Legwand and McCormick).

ROR obviously isnt a 3rd line centre but I was only talking about where he sits on the depth chart once Eichel and Reinhart fulfill their potential. Doesn't mean he'll line up as 3rd line C. Besides, even if he is slotted in as 3rd C, with his talents, he'd probably be getting more ice time and play top 6 minutes even though he's 3C on the lineup.

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ROR obviously isnt a 3rd line centre but I was only talking about where he sits on the depth chart once Eichel and Reinhart fulfill their potential. Doesn't mean he'll line up as 3rd line C. Besides, even if he is slotted in as 3rd C, with his talents, he'd probably be getting more ice time and play top 6 minutes even though he's 3C on the lineup.

And here-in lies the problem...there's only 60 minutes in a game. So every minute you roll your 3rd line is a minute you take away from your top 2. If ROR truly is slated (talent-wise) behind Eichel and Reinhart, then why wouldn't you want your more talented 2 guys on the ice MORE not LESS.

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Horvat+ Higgins for Reinhart gives us our future 1st line center with McCann as our 2nd and Sutter as 3rd. I love Horvat but Reinhart is a incredibly gifted player. I think Benning wanted to trade up in that draft to get Reinhart if Florida took him at first overall.

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