Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

[Discussion] Acquiring Defensemen/ Defense prospects


Recommended Posts

Another option would be to target contending teams looking to make a cup push at the deadline (vets) that have deep D defensive prospects but no room to play them at the NHL level in the immediate future. Teams like Washington (Bowey), NYI (Pulock), St. Louis (Schmaltz/Parayko) etc. .

Alternately, we could trade Vrbata/Hamhuis/Higgins for picks/prospects to contending teams and use those picks, prospects (and our aforementioned LW/LD depth) to target guys like Severson out of NJ who are also in more of a rebuilding phase and don't have much/any need for the vets themselves. A mix of these two options could also work (Trade Hamhuis/Higgins for picks and send those picks + Vrbata with salary retained etc to a contender for example).

Another route could be a Burke style block buster to get in to the top 2-3 and select Chychrun...though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Those last three options arguably fit our timeline better than Yandle/Johnson would (not that I'm opposed to them, they're great players, or that they're particularly old).

On a side note, I'm on record being in favour of a cheap trade at the deadline or UFA signing this summer, of Schenn as a bit of a reclamation project. He addresses two large team needs IMO. He addresses both a lack of size and depth on our right side. Even as a 6/7 guy who could slot in with injuries and perhaps when playing heavier teams he'd have value to us IMO. And if he could turn it around with a fresh start, new coaches/systems, new partner etc he'd be a FANTASTIC get.

I would have to think St Louis does not plan to let Shattenkirk walk at the end of next year? And Parayko has been too good to consider moving.

All that could change if they flame out in the play off's again. Shat would get them some great re-tooling pieces without tearing up the team.

But it still probably adds up to Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk AND Parayko ahead of Schmaltz who is an otherwise exciting prospect. By memory (?) muscleman Bortuzzo is also right handed.

Point > Schmaltz could be our right handed Hutton? St Lou could also use Hamhuis in a big way to load up the left side of their D for a cup run. If not they should be! They also should be interested in a LW prospect such as Baertschi, Shinkaruk or Gaunce in a hockey trade for Schmaltz as well...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have to think St Louis does not plan to let Shattenkirk walk at the end of next year? And Parayko has been too good to consider moving.

All that could change if they flame out in the play off's again. Shat would get them some great re-tooling pieces without tearing up the team.

But it still probably adds up to Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk AND Parayko ahead of Schmaltz who is an otherwise exciting prospect. By memory (?) muscleman Bortuzzo is also right handed.

Point > Schmaltz could be our right handed Hutton? St Lou could also use Hamhuis in a big way to load up the left side of their D for a cup run. If not they should be! They also should be interested in a LW prospect such as Baertschi, Shinkaruk or Gaunce in a hockey trade for Schmaltz as well...

The problem with moving a shinkaruk or Sven is that Canucks really don't have top 6 depth to replace Daniel sedin in 3 years.  If sedins were 3 years younger I'd say yes let's go for it but we're not in a position like the ducks or Hawks where our core is going to be strong for 5+ years and have time to draft and develop new prospects.  

Trading youth for youth in a deal is always so risky as you still have so many unknowns. We could trade hunter only to have Sven fall off the map and be left with zero top 6 lw replacements.  Or we can have schmaltz never make an impact in the NHL. While the player we trade goes on to be a star. (Naslund trade). Unless Canucks are extremely confident on a d prospect becoming a NHL impact player why not continue as we are and spend the next 4 years scouting, drafting and developing our own d prospects. As I pointed out early. We have three top 4 locked up for the next 5+ years. In 5 years horvat,McCann Virtanen will still be under 25. And we will still have tanev and Hutton in their primes. In that time if we still weren't able to pick get a defensement. We will still have 5 more years of a built of prospect pool that can be leveraged as assets. 

Im all up for getting young d or d prospects. Just not at the cost of our current top prospects. If we can get a top 4 player at the price of our expendable older player lets do it. The problem is we aren't likely going to get a full package top 2 guy. Three players possibly in our price range that I have mentioned before that could fit our bill is gudbranson, Ellis, schenn. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem with moving a shinkaruk or Sven is that Canucks really don't have top 6 depth to replace Daniel sedin in 3 years.  If sedins were 3 years younger I'd say yes let's go for it but we're not in a position like the ducks or Hawks where our core is going to be strong for 5+ years and have time to draft and develop new prospects.  

Trading youth for youth in a deal is always so risky as you still have so many unknowns. We could trade hunter only to have Sven fall off the map and be left with zero top 6 lw replacements.  Or we can have schmaltz never make an impact in the NHL. While the player we trade goes on to be a star. (Naslund trade). Unless Canucks are extremely confident on a d prospect becoming a NHL impact player why not continue as we are and spend the next 4 years scouting, drafting and developing our own d prospects. As I pointed out early. We have three top 4 locked up for the next 5+ years. In 5 years horvat,McCann Virtanen will still be under 25. And we will still have tanev and Hutton in their primes. In that time if we still weren't able to pick get a defensement. We will still have 5 more years of a built of prospect pool that can be leveraged as assets. 

Im all up for getting young d or d prospects. Just not at the cost of our current top prospects. If we can get a top 4 player at the price of our expendable older player lets do it. The problem is we aren't likely going to get a full package top 2 guy. Three players possibly in our price range that I have mentioned before that could fit our bill is gudbranson, Ellis, schenn. 

Its a fair point you make.

The counter is that Sven, Shinkaruk and Gaunce are all significantly more advanced than, say, Subban? Plus there is three of them. And Jensen... Plus we don't have a "Daniel Sedin" calibre of player of any sort on the right side of our D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And wingers are a LOT easier to acquire and faster to develop. 

Hamhuis for Jordan Schmaltz at deadline. Vrbata for a pick. Higgins for a late 2knd / 3rd?

Draft Sean Day, Puljujarvi ( ::D token forward) and righty Dante Fabbro, no particular order, in the first two rounds. (highly realistic this part :rolleyes: ).

Sign Big Buff for 4 years.

Edler  Tanev

Hutton Byfuglien

Sbisa Schmaltz

Pedan

In system

Tryamkin Fabbro

Day  Subban

Brisbois  Neil

Sauntner

Cedarholme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its a fair point you make.

The counter is that Sven, Shinkaruk and Gaunce are all significantly more advanced than, say, Subban? Plus there is three of them. And Jensen... Plus we don't have a "Daniel Sedin" calibre of player of any sort on the right side of our D.

that's true and I won't deny that our right side d is our weakest prospect pool, left side we are actually ok. But just because there's more doesn't mean they are all going to turn out. Imagine the out cry is we traded away shinkaruk and he went on to become a 6 time 30 goal scorer surpacing the 40 goal mark 3 times.  

My point is what's the rush to add d propects at a high risk cost when there are other cheaper alternatives. Trading away propects that we don't have an abundance of (we need two top 6 lw after Daniel). Unless it's a no brained like a jones (which we can't afford) it's not worth the risk. 

Think about which senecio has more risk. 

Trading hunter or Sven for schmaltz (who's got a long way to go to be a impact nhler) and hope the player we keep & acquires turn out

or

picking up a stop gap or a young alternative (like the 3 I mentioned) and let our prospects develop for 3-4 more years. At that time not only will we have a better idea on what types of player we got in Sven and hunter but also will have 3-4 more years of new prospects. By that time we could have our own exciting d prospects or we could use the "now" abundance of prospects to acquire that young d. Our new young core (Virtanen, McCann, horvat) will still all be under 24.

Until we have the new core take over we can't afford to be giving up prospects even if it is for other prospects. Take ducks for example. They can afford to trade away young players smith-pelly, etem and even a Theodore because there core is locked up for the next 5+ years. they can take risks. If it doesn't turn out, not a huge deal since they have enough time to draft and develop new prospects. Canucks don't have the time. Our core is older and we need to find new core replacements soon. It we make a wrong move it will set back our transition. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that's true and I won't deny that our right side d is our weakest prospect pool, left side we are actually ok. But just because there's more doesn't mean they are all going to turn out. Imagine the out cry is we traded away shinkaruk and he went on to become a 6 time 30 goal scorer surpacing the 40 goal mark 3 times.  

My point is what's the rush to add d propects at a high risk cost when there are other cheaper alternatives. Trading away propects that we don't have an abundance of (we need two top 6 lw after Daniel). Unless it's a no brained like a jones (which we can't afford) it's not worth the risk. 

Think about which senecio has more risk. 

Trading hunter or Sven for schmaltz (who's got a long way to go to be a impact nhler) and hope the player we keep & acquires turn out

or

picking up a stop gap or a young alternative (like the 3 I mentioned) and let our prospects develop for 3-4 more years. At that time not only will we have a better idea on what types of player we got in Sven and hunter but also will have 3-4 more years of new prospects. By that time we could have our own exciting d prospects or we could use the "now" abundance of prospects to acquire that young d. Our new young core (Virtanen, McCann, horvat) will still all be under 24.

Until we have the new core take over we can't afford to be giving up prospects even if it is for other prospects. Take ducks for example. They can afford to trade away young players smith-pelly, etem and even a Theodore because there core is locked up for the next 5+ years. they can take risks. If it doesn't turn out, not a huge deal since they have enough time to draft and develop new prospects. Canucks don't have the time. Our core is older and we need to find new core replacements soon. It we make a wrong move it will set back our transition. 

I would stop short of calling my suggestion a proposal; just a suggestion. Or concept? For experts to tweak.

But it should not be too far out. Schmaltz is a 6'2'' PMD with 6 points in 10 AHL games this year. Its very equivalent performance, or at least awfully close to forward Shinkaruk's PPG. He was a 25th overall pick. Its a similar pedigree as Hunter was 23rd I think? And if Schmaltz turned out I would be very happy for Hunter to do so as well. I would leave an actual decision on such a deal to guys who had coached and scouted them. Have a real feel for how each will turn out, whether they will make it?

I would call Hamhuis for Schmaltz a proposal!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Addressing your suggestion of 3.

I see Schenn as a reclamation project. Last year I was against trading for Bartkowski. But was happy to pick him up UFA under $2 mill. Same, same! But I'm not offering any assets, save a token one, if Philly will offer him up as a simple cap dump? I'll wait till July 1 before I make any real move on Luke Schenn.

I am very much in favour of a hockey trade for Erik Gudbranson. Think he would be an ideal compliment on a 2knd pair to Hutton. Would probably take over first pair over time? Big, right handed shot, can skate, clear the crease, good with the puck. He's also a viable target. Flo has man beast Ekblad who can do what Gudbranson can, but better. And Petrovic who is similar and not horribly far off Erik. They still have righty Campbell on the roster as well. The window might be this year, and if they are in a play off position. Petro is at least a capable alternative with a bit less mobility and puck skills to offer. He would not be a bad pick up at all BTW. He's also a mean bastard with no fear. An ideal 3rd pair right D for lower cost. Much better than Schenn! Gudbranson is going to cost you Gaunce plus something substantial though. Are you prepared for the cost? I am guessing it would cost Gaunce and a first.They could use him! If we get a spare pick from a Vrbata trade I would do it. I would even toss in Jensen.

In reality Pertovic is the reasonable get.

I'm not in to Ellis. Not for us anyway. Not unless we can afford to play him with Edler. Hutton with Tanev. That might not be a bad plan. But logically we could sign a Kris Russell UFA (I like that in a big way BTW) to be a 3rd pairing specialty offensive player. Rather than spend considerable good assets on Ellis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Addressing your suggestion of 3.

I see Schenn as a reclamation project. Last year I was against trading for Bartkowski. But was happy to pick him up UFA under $2 mill. Same, same! But I'm not offering any assets, save a token one, if Philly will offer him up as a simple cap dump? I'll wait till July 1 before I make any real move on Luke Schenn.

I am very much in favour of a hockey trade for Erik Gudbranson. Think he would be an ideal compliment on a 2knd pair to Hutton. Would probably take over first pair over time? Big, right handed shot, can skate, clear the crease, good with the puck. He's also a viable target. Flo has man beast Ekblad who can do what Gudbranson can, but better. And Petrovic who is similar and not horribly far off Erik. They still have righty Campbell on the roster as well. The window might be this year, and if they are in a play off position. Petro is at least a capable alternative with a bit less mobility and puck skills to offer. He would not be a bad pick up at all BTW. He's also a mean bastard with no fear. An ideal 3rd pair right D for lower cost. Much better than Schenn! Gudbranson is going to cost you Gaunce plus something substantial though. Are you prepared for the cost? I am guessing it would cost Gaunce and a first.They could use him! If we get a spare pick from a Vrbata trade I would do it. I would even toss in Jensen.

In reality Pertovic is the reasonable get.

I'm not in to Ellis. Not for us anyway. Not unless we can afford to play him with Edler. Hutton with Tanev. That might not be a bad plan. But logically we could sign a Kris Russell UFA (I like that in a big way BTW) to be a 3rd pairing specialty offensive player. Rather than spend considerable good assets on Ellis.

schenn would be more depth. But his value is low enough that he would cost next to nothing. He's not a top 4 but would help Canucks fill a hole an allow Canucks to also go after Ellis, who fills another hole. I like the combination of both of them being aquired. 

 

Nsh would like a veteran left handed top four d. Hamhuis could be the center piece. And a conditional pick (depending on if he resigns) helps reduce risk on NSH side. I actually wouldn't be against a hammer and vbrata retained salary deal with Ellis + being involved in the package coming back. 

gubranson is going to cost more. Mitchell and Campbell are aging past there dates. Hammer would be a solid vet fill in. It would cost more than hammer, like a prospect (maybe a kenins) but It wouldn't be shinkaruk/baertschi value. Not if we include a Conditional pick. . Again vbrata plus hammer retained salary is an option as fla is desperate to make playoffs and give their fans something to cheer about.

Fla and NSH are also two teams I can see hammer waiving too  NSH as hammer has alway said how much he enjoyed playing their and fla for luongo reasons  

The one thing I want is atleast 3-5 picks in the first 3 rounds. I see a ton of solid d prospects in the upcoming draft. If we can nab two of them we could change our d pool overnight. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

schenn would be more depth. But his value is low enough that he would cost next to nothing. He's not a top 4 but would help Canucks fill a hole an allow Canucks to also go after Ellis, who fills another hole. I like the combination of both of them being aquired. 

 

Nsh would like a veteran left handed top four d. Hamhuis could be the center piece. And a conditional pick (depending on if he resigns) helps reduce risk on NSH side. I actually wouldn't be against a hammer and vbrata retained salary deal with Ellis + being involved in the package coming back. 

gubranson is going to cost more. Mitchell and Campbell are aging past there dates. Hammer would be a solid vet fill in. It would cost more than hammer, like a prospect (maybe a kenins) but It wouldn't be shinkaruk/baertschi value. Not if we include a Conditional pick. . Again vbrata plus hammer retained salary is an option as fla is desperate to make playoffs and give their fans something to cheer about.

Fla and NSH are also two teams I can see hammer waiving too  NSH as hammer has alway said how much he enjoyed playing their and fla for luongo reasons  

The one thing I want is atleast 3-5 picks in the first 3 rounds. I see a ton of solid d prospects in the upcoming draft. If we can nab two of them we could change our d pool overnight. 

What left handed D is Hamhuis going to knock out of the top 4 in Nashville, Elkholm?

Who is 6'4'' & had 36 points last year...

Josi who had 62 points???

 

I agree with Florida, depending on positioning at the deadline. They'll want to win their first play off series in, what 15 years? Great target. Cant see Nashville. Just my opinion.

Piitsburgh could sure use Hammer...

Who mentioned the Isles? Vrbata would be a nice skill compliment to Okposo & Bailey on their right side. Steve Bernier played 2rw last game I watched...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would it take to have a stab at one of the many star shutdown defencemen in New York? They've got Yandle, Klein, McDonaugh and Girardi all on the right hand side.

Obviously McDonaugh would be the best, youngest guy to go for but Klein and Giardi are only in their early 30s. I'd love to have Girardi as our 2nd pairing right handed shutdown veteran to play with Hutton for the next couple of seasons.

Vbrata + 2nd round pick for Girardi

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Girardi

Hamhuis - Sbisa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What left handed D is Hamhuis going to knock out of the top 4 in Nashville, Elkholm?

Who is 6'4'' & had 36 points last year...

Josi who had 62 points???

 

I agree with Florida, depending on positioning at the deadline. They'll want to win their first play off series in, what 15 years? Great target. Cant see Nashville. Just my opinion.

Piitsburgh could sure use Hammer...

Who mentioned the Isles? Vrbata would be a nice skill compliment to Okposo & Bailey on their right side. Steve Bernier played 2rw last game I watched...

 

Agreed on Nashville. 

I mentioned the NYI (and Washington, ST Louis etc). Florida and NYR are other fairly obvious targets to as some of you have mentioned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What would it take to have a stab at one of the many star shutdown defencemen in New York? They've got Yandle, Klein, McDonaugh and Girardi all on the right hand side.

Obviously McDonaugh would be the best, youngest guy to go for but Klein and Giardi are only in their early 30s. I'd love to have Girardi as our 2nd pairing right handed shutdown veteran to play with Hutton for the next couple of seasons.

Vbrata + 2nd round pick for Girardi

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Girardi

Hamhuis - Sbisa

The Rangers are 13-2-2 > On an 8 game win streak. Tied for first overall in the league.

Do you have any reason to suggest they should breakup the top 4 on their D?

:unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Ryan Pulock out of New York would be our best target.

 

The Islanders have plenty of talent and depth in their prospect cupboard. What they need are some parts to help them stay alive longer in the playoffs. Their D-core is missing one top-4 defenseman on the left side. They need to fill that void before they can take another step forward. Someone to help with their secondary scoring behind Tavares would be something they consider as well. I think taking Pulock out of New York would be much easier than some of the other teams and targets. They have a decent amount of cap space, a great prospect pool that we wouldn't have to bolster and they're out East so we wouldn't have to play them very often, which is sometimes a factor in making trades.

 

Pulock is a smooth skating, big, right-handed defenseman with a laser for a shot. I think he would be the perfect partner for Hutton. Pulock would free up time and space for Hutton to make plays with the puck in the defensive zone, and they both can create offensive in the offensive zone. I see the possibility of a Kieth - Seabrook pairing here. The difference being we get a better Seabrook (Pulock) but a not as good Kieth (because while Hutton is good, Kieth is on another level).

Depending on how ready the Islanders feel to make a push this year, I would offer them something like this:

 

To NYI:

Hamhuis (30% retained)

Vrbata (40% retained)

 

To VAN:

Pulock

2nd Round Pick 2016

 

We would need to retain salary on both of these players to fit them under New York's cap. Hamhuis is the guy that would fill out their top-4. He would be a great partner for Hamonic and that pair can start to take the load off of Leddy and Boychuck. He would be the prime candidate to resign as well with Okposo looking like he will walk.

 

Vrbata would be the secondary scoring behind Tavares. I think playing in the Eastern Conference will really help him, especially in the playoffs.

 

I think both of them would at least consider waiving their NTC's. New York is a team that's 1-2 years away from making a Cup run. They are a team that would also probably look to resign at least one of them (probably Hamhuis), and they have the cap space to do it.

 

Our lineup for this year would have some holes in it, especially in our already weak defense, but I think we could fix those problems in Free Agency. Making a deal like this depends on where we are in the standings when we make this trade. If we continue to play like we have this past week, we could very well be on the outside looking in. But we are still in a good spot in our division, especially if the Coyotes fall out of it (like they probably will).

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Burrows

Higgins - Horvat - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Dorsett

 

Edler - Tanev

Bartkowski - Weber

Hutton - Sbisa

 

In Free Agency, I think we could make Jason Demers a pretty good offer. He would get to play top-4 minutes in a hockey market. We could offer him something like 3 years, 12 million to make sure he comes over, but I think we might be able to get away with less. If we could get him, that would be a big help, along with Pulock probably ready to step into bottom-pair minutes. With McCann and Virtanen having played a full year in the NHL, they could probably shoulder a bigger workload, even just slightly. Combine that with Shinkaurik, Gaunce and maybe even Cassels looking ready next year, and our roster looks like it could take care of itself:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Shinkaurik/Baertschi - Horvat - Burrows

Higgins - McCann - Sutter

Prust - Cracknell/Cassels - Dorsett

 

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Demers

Sbisa - Pulock

 

That look pretty solid to me.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Ryan Pulock out of New York would be our best target.

 

The Islanders have plenty of talent and depth in their prospect cupboard. What they need are some parts to help them stay alive longer in the playoffs. Their D-core is missing one top-4 defenseman on the left side. They need to fill that void before they can take another step forward. Someone to help with their secondary scoring behind Tavares would be something they consider as well. I think taking Pulock out of New York would be much easier than some of the other teams and targets. They have a decent amount of cap space, a great prospect pool that we wouldn't have to bolster and they're out East so we wouldn't have to play them very often, which is sometimes a factor in making trades.

 

Pulock is a smooth skating, big, right-handed defenseman with a laser for a shot. I think he would be the perfect partner for Hutton. Pulock would free up time and space for Hutton to make plays with the puck in the defensive zone, and they both can create offensive in the offensive zone. I see the possibility of a Kieth - Seabrook pairing here. The difference being we get a better Seabrook (Pulock) but a not as good Kieth (because while Hutton is good, Kieth is on another level).

Depending on how ready the Islanders feel to make a push this year, I would offer them something like this:

 

To NYI:

Hamhuis (30% retained)

Vrbata (40% retained)

 

To VAN:

Pulock

2nd Round Pick 2016

 

We would need to retain salary on both of these players to fit them under New York's cap. Hamhuis is the guy that would fill out their top-4. He would be a great partner for Hamonic and that pair can start to take the load off of Leddy and Boychuck. He would be the prime candidate to resign as well with Okposo looking like he will walk.

 

Vrbata would be the secondary scoring behind Tavares. I think playing in the Eastern Conference will really help him, especially in the playoffs.

 

I think both of them would at least consider waiving their NTC's. New York is a team that's 1-2 years away from making a Cup run. They are a team that would also probably look to resign at least one of them (probably Hamhuis), and they have the cap space to do it.

 

Our lineup for this year would have some holes in it, especially in our already weak defense, but I think we could fix those problems in Free Agency. Making a deal like this depends on where we are in the standings when we make this trade. If we continue to play like we have this past week, we could very well be on the outside looking in. But we are still in a good spot in our division, especially if the Coyotes fall out of it (like they probably will).

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Burrows

Higgins - Horvat - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Dorsett

 

Edler - Tanev

Bartkowski - Weber

Hutton - Sbisa

 

In Free Agency, I think we could make Jason Demers a pretty good offer. He would get to play top-4 minutes in a hockey market. We could offer him something like 3 years, 12 million to make sure he comes over, but I think we might be able to get away with less. If we could get him, that would be a big help, along with Pulock probably ready to step into bottom-pair minutes. With McCann and Virtanen having played a full year in the NHL, they could probably shoulder a bigger workload, even just slightly. Combine that with Shinkaurik, Gaunce and maybe even Cassels looking ready next year, and our roster looks like it could take care of itself:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Shinkaurik/Baertschi - Horvat - Burrows

Higgins - McCann - Sutter

Prust - Cracknell/Cassels - Dorsett

 

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - Demers

Sbisa - Pulock

 

That look pretty solid to me.

 

I'd rather try and get Hamonic from the Islanders. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...