Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

[Discussion] Acquiring Defensemen/ Defense prospects


Recommended Posts

Drop both Vrbata($5M) and Hamhuis($4.5M), both 2016 UFA's, total $9.5M cap hit

and then go hard after one of 2016 UFA,s RH D NYR -Yandle(28yrs) or COL- Erik Johnson(27yrs)

I'm skeptical either will actually hit free agency and if they do, we'll be in heavy competition for their services. But either of them would certainly flesh out our top 4 nicely. 

Another option would be to target contending teams looking to make a cup push at the deadline (vets) that have deep D defensive prospects but no room to play them at the NHL level in the immediate future. Teams like Washington (Bowey), NYI (Pulock), St. Louis (Schmaltz/Parayko) etc. We have Vrbata, Hamhuis and Higgins to move and could even retain salary to both help them fit under a contending teams cap as well as increase trade return value. We also have good LW and LD prospect depth to add value as well. A lot will depend on what injuries or holes those teams find themselves having towards the deadline.

Alternately, we could trade Vrbata/Hamhuis/Higgins for picks/prospects to contending teams and use those picks, prospects (and our aforementioned LW/LD depth) to target guys like Severson out of NJ who are also in more of a rebuilding phase and don't have much/any need for the vets themselves. A mix of these two options could also work (Trade Hamhuis/Higgins for picks and send those picks + Vrbata with salary retained etc to a contender for example).

Another route could be a Burke style block buster to get in to the top 2-3 and select Chychrun...though I wouldn't hold my breath.

Those last three options arguably fit our timeline better than Yandle/Johnson would (not that I'm opposed to them, they're great players, or that they're particularly old).

On a side note, I'm on record being in favour of a cheap trade at the deadline or UFA signing this summer, of Schenn as a bit of a reclamation project. He addresses two large team needs IMO. He addresses both a lack of size and depth on our right side. Even as a 6/7 guy who could slot in with injuries and perhaps when playing heavier teams he'd have value to us IMO. And if he could turn it around with a fresh start, new coaches/systems, new partner etc he'd be a FANTASTIC get.

 

 

 

 

Erik Johnson was re-signed already...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said it before, but Madison Bowey would be the perfect addition to our prospect pool. He is close to NHL ready, and honestly could probably get some games in playing for this team. He would cost a ton, but would really go on to even out our backwards depth. From there we just push forward and let Hutton and Bowey lead the defensive core. Yannick Weber is more than likely playing his last season here, which makes a right hander like Bowey, who isn't soft even more valuable to us. I think Bowey could play very well with someone like Dan Hamhuis, or even bottom 6 minutes with someone like Matt Bartkowski.

I would love to see our defensive prospect core look like

Hutton - Bowey (In the NHL now, if not soon)

Brisebois/Pedan - Subban (In the NHL in a couple of years)

 

Add that to Edler and Tanev being the homegrown Vancouver groomed veterans to lead the charge, would be fantastic.

 

I think that is actually solid enough defensive depth to build a core around. He would cost a lot, as in a solid prospect the likes of Brendan Gaunce, Cole Cassels, or Hunters Shinkaruk as a core piece, maybe even a mid-high pick on top if necessary. But we have the forward prospect depth, not to mention Horvat, McCann and Virtanen currently as NHLers. And Anton Rodin is looking to be a possible late bloomer in of himself. Sacrificing some of that forward depth for Bowey on the backend could really pay dividends. With Thatcher Demko also showing elite capabilites as well, we could have one of the most well rounded and solid young cores in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said it before, but Madison Bowey would be the perfect addition to our prospect pool. He is close to NHL ready, and honestly could probably get some games in playing for this team. He would cost a ton, but would really go on to even out our backwards depth. From there we just push forward and let Hutton and Bowey lead the defensive core. Yannick Weber is more than likely playing his last season here, which makes a right hander like Bowey, who isn't soft even more valuable to us. I think Bowey could play very well with someone like Dan Hamhuis, or even bottom 6 minutes with someone like Matt Bartkowski.

I would love to see our defensive prospect core look like

Hutton - Bowey (In the NHL now, if not soon)

Brisebois/Pedan - Subban (In the NHL in a couple of years)

 

Add that to Edler and Tanev being the homegrown Vancouver groomed veterans to lead the charge, would be fantastic.

 

I think that is actually solid enough defensive depth to build a core around. He would cost a lot, as in a solid prospect the likes of Brendan Gaunce, Cole Cassels, or Hunters Shinkaruk as a core piece, maybe even a mid-high pick on top if necessary. But we have the forward prospect depth, not to mention Horvat, McCann and Virtanen currently as NHLers. Sacrificing some of that forward depth for Bowey on the backend could really pay dividends. With Thatcher Demko also showing elite capabilites as well, we could have one of the most well rounded and solid young cores in the league.

Bowey would be a good addition but what would Caps want in return.  They are a team that's desperate for a third round playoff appearance.  They also don't have cap space to take on much so in order to improve their current line up a roster player would have to be coming back (likely Laich).  After the Forsberg trade loss, I don't see cap's taking a risk without getting future back in return.  

 

They don't really have a need for any D,

Orpik, Alzner, and Schmidt on the left side, Carlson, Niskanen, and Orlov on the right. 

Upfront

RW, Williams has really solidified his top 6 position and Oshie has been decent and Wilson is a perfect 3rd line checker

LW, Ovi, Burakovsky and Chimera,  And they are also set in the top 9 down the middle with Backstrom, Kuz and Johansson

as for future pieces

With Ovi and Burakovsky plus vrana as a high end prospect they don't have a need in the near future for a offensive LW.

With Backstrom and Kuznetzov they don't have a need in the near future for a top 6 Center

On right wing they have Oshie, Williams is 33, but Wilson and laata are both young and could move up into that top 6 role for them in the future.

What do we have to offer them?  Higgins could help somewhat fill the hole that ward left.  A versatile PK winger that can play up and down the line up, Maybe a Gaunce type,  Possibly a Vbrata or Hammer if they have injuries later in the year. But in the end I don't think capitals move their best defensive prospect either.  Orlov is RFA at the end of the year and they will keep Bowey for insurance.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bowey would be a good addition but what would Caps want in return.  They are a team that's desperate for a third round playoff appearance.  They also don't have cap space to take on much so in order to improve their current line up a roster player would have to be coming back (likely Laich).  After the Forsberg trade loss, I don't see cap's taking a risk without getting future back in return.  

 

They don't really have a need for any D,

Orpik, Alzner, and Schmidt on the left side, Carlson, Niskanen, and Orlov on the right. 

Upfront

RW, Williams has really solidified his top 6 position and Oshie has been decent and Wilson is a perfect 3rd line checker

LW, Ovi, Burakovsky and Chimera,  And they are also set in the top 9 down the middle with Backstrom, Kuz and Johansson

as for future pieces

With Ovi and Burakovsky plus vrana as a high end prospect they don't have a need in the near future for a offensive LW.

With Backstrom and Kuznetzov they don't have a need in the near future for a top 6 Center

On right wing they have Oshie, Williams is 33, but Wilson and laata are both young and could move up into that top 6 role for them in the future.

What do we have to offer them?  Higgins could help somewhat fill the hole that ward left.  A versatile PK winger that can play up and down the line up, Maybe a Gaunce type,  Possibly a Vbrata or Hammer if they have injuries later in the year. But in the end I don't think capitals move their best defensive prospect either.  Orlov is RFA at the end of the year and they will keep Bowey for insurance.   

We'd have to see what injuries etc they have towards the deadline to see if we have something they need but as you say, Higgins could be a solid addition for them. Then flip them some picks we get in return elsewhere for Vrbata/Hamhuis (EVERY team wants picks) and see where they feel they could improve their prospect depth (LD, LW...).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'd have to see what injuries etc they have towards the deadline to see if we have something they need but as you say, Higgins could be a solid addition for them. Then flip them some picks we get in return elsewhere for Vrbata/Hamhuis (EVERY team wants picks) and see where they feel they could improve their prospect depth (LD, LW...).

If they get an injury on the back end before the deadline and they get desperate, Hammer plus... maybe.  Unless Vbrata changes his season around I doubt they any desire for him.  But either way with them taking on either of them two involves a salary coming back, and for the price of Bowey, it going to be cap dump Laich, since he has another year on his deal that would be a tough waste of money to take on.  Ovi, Burakovsky, Vrana and Johansson (who does occasionally fill in on LW) really means they have little need for a offensive minded LW like Baertschi or Shinkaruk.  Gaunce or Kenins might fill a bottom 6 need for them (especially if we take back Laich). I guess we will have to wait and watch the capitals season to see if any opening appear.  But again, I can see them not interested in moving Bowey for insurance on Orlov and for the fact that outside him, they don't really have much top D depth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Bowey is untouchable. We won't be able to get him. However, with Klingberg taking over in Dallas, could Honka be somewhat available? We would still have to give up a lot, but he is a future #1 D-man, and Klingberg has taken his spot.

 

To DAL:

Hamhuis (50% retained)

Higgins

Briesbois

Jensen

Vey

2nd Round Pick 2016

3rd Round Pick 2016

2nd Round Pick (from Columbus)

 

To VAN:

Honka

Moen

 

Hamhuis will steady out their D-core, but hopefully he can pick up his level of play soon. Higgins will fill out their bottom-6. Briesbois is a good defense prospect that could somewhat replace Honka. Jensen and Vey are spare parts, but still hold some value, especially if injuries occur. Jensen would also benefit from going to a run-and-gun team like Dallas I think. The picks are thrown in for value. This is about how much we would need to give up to get him.

 

We get Moen back so Dallas can fit Hamhuis under the cap. He's on an expiring contract so we should be fine there.

 

Honka would be the future of our D-core along with Hutton.

 

Lineup after the trade:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Vrbata

Moen - Horvat - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Burrows

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Bartkowksi  -  Weber

Hutton  -  Sbisa

 

Just like any trade involving Hamhuis, a hole is left in our top-4, making our defense weaker than it already is. However, Hutton will most likely step into top-4 minutes next year. If we could also sign someone like Demers we would be completely set:

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Hutton  -  Demers

Sbisa  -  Honka

 

If Dallas really thinks they can make a run this year, I could almost see this happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they get an injury on the back end before the deadline and they get desperate, Hammer plus... maybe.  Unless Vbrata changes his season around I doubt they any desire for him.  But either way with them taking on either of them two involves a salary coming back, and for the price of Bowey, it going to be cap dump Laich, since he has another year on his deal that would be a tough waste of money to take on.  Ovi, Burakovsky, Vrana and Johansson (who does occasionally fill in on LW) really means they have little need for a offensive minded LW like Baertschi or Shinkaruk.  Gaunce or Kenins might fill a bottom 6 need for them (especially if we take back Laich). I guess we will have to wait and watch the capitals season to see if any opening appear.  But again, I can see them not interested in moving Bowey for insurance on Orlov and for the fact that outside him, they don't really have much top D depth.

We can also retain salary FWIW...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We can also retain salary FWIW...

Only up to 50%, even retaining the max amount on either Hammer or Vbrata won't fit under the capitals current space.  You have to think about it from the caps point of view.  Why would they have any interest in moving Bowey without a significant over payment that puts their current roster over the top.  We don't have any players to offer that do that, and capitals have already been down that road of trading a top prospect for a roster upgrade.   Unless they have an injury and get desperate we wont be getting Bowey... this year.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only up to 50%, even retaining the max amount on either Hammer or Vbrata won't fit under the capitals current space.  You have to think about it from the caps point of view.  Why would they have any interest in moving Bowey without a significant over payment that puts their current roster over the top.  We don't have any players to offer that do that, and capitals have already been down that road of trading a top prospect for a roster upgrade.   Unless they have an injury and get desperate we wont be getting Bowey... this year.  

You're forgetting salary gets prorated as well ;) 

As I've said numerous times though...whoever makes the best dance partner with us will depend largely on injuries etc. We wait and see. Perhaps we find someone to dance with, maybe it's Washington, maybe it's someone else...maybe it's nobody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Bowey is untouchable. We won't be able to get him. However, with Klingberg taking over in Dallas, could Honka be somewhat available? We would still have to give up a lot, but he is a future #1 D-man, and Klingberg has taken his spot.

 

To DAL:

Hamhuis (50% retained)

Higgins

Briesbois

Jensen

Vey

2nd Round Pick 2016

3rd Round Pick 2016

2nd Round Pick (from Columbus)

 

To VAN:

Honka

Moen

 

Hamhuis will steady out their D-core, but hopefully he can pick up his level of play soon. Higgins will fill out their bottom-6. Briesbois is a good defense prospect that could somewhat replace Honka. Jensen and Vey are spare parts, but still hold some value, especially if injuries occur. Jensen would also benefit from going to a run-and-gun team like Dallas I think. The picks are thrown in for value. This is about how much we would need to give up to get him.

 

We get Moen back so Dallas can fit Hamhuis under the cap. He's on an expiring contract so we should be fine there.

 

Honka would be the future of our D-core along with Hutton.

 

Lineup after the trade:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Vrbata

Moen - Horvat - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Burrows

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Bartkowksi  -  Weber

Hutton  -  Sbisa

 

Just like any trade involving Hamhuis, a hole is left in our top-4, making our defense weaker than it already is. However, Hutton will most likely step into top-4 minutes next year. If we could also sign someone like Demers we would be completely set:

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Hutton  -  Demers

Sbisa  -  Honka

 

If Dallas really thinks they can make a run this year, I could almost see this happening.

Honka is too small although very talented.  With Hutton showing his offensive capabilities, he appears to be our future PP QB, we need a bigger right handed D, with an all around ability and preferably with a big shot.  A big ask.

If we start to consider Edler as trade bait we might be able to find that player we are looking for.  We could sign Hammer to an extension and take time to develop our left handed D pool.  Pedan, Tryamkin, Brisebois 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're forgetting salary gets prorated as well ;) 

As I've said numerous times though...whoever makes the best dance partner with us will depend largely on injuries etc. We wait and see. Perhaps we find someone to dance with, maybe it's Washington, maybe it's someone else...maybe it's nobody.

as I've said, injuries,  without one, a significant one, or multiple long term with a large sum of cap, they don't have the space...  You're holding on to a pipe dream.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honka is too small although very talented.  With Hutton showing his offensive capabilities, he appears to be our future PP QB, we need a bigger right handed D, with an all around ability and preferably with a big shot.  A big ask.

If we start to consider Edler as trade bait we might be able to find that player we are looking for.  We could sign Hammer to an extension and take time to develop our left handed D pool.  Pedan, Tryamkin, Brisebois 

 

Everything is dependent on price you pay to acquire, where you can fit said player in the line up, who you can play the guy with?

From what I understand Honka is two things beyond the talent we hear about.

- A great competitor! Look how that makes size almost irrelevant with Gallagher for example.

- An explosive athlete. He's apparently very strong for his size, has great balance and low body mass which keeps him from being pushed around. It also allows him to explode to pucks before guys, and out of the way of guys trying to hit him.

This makes him different than some small D. And did we mentioned the great skills where could maintain control of the puck throughout?

I see Honka as a good target. And Dallas a team who has depth in D prospects to absorb his loss. Possibly a contender? I could see common ground for a deal!

Plus they already have Klingburg. Its one thing to have one small guy on your D core. Multiple guys another...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as I've said, injuries,  without one, a significant one, or multiple long term with a large sum of cap, they don't have the space...  You're holding on to a pipe dream.  

Retained and prorated salary means any contending, cap ceiling team will have a far easier time adding players with sending minimal salary back. That's all my point is...put down the straw.

I'm not holding on to anything...lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like Bowey is untouchable. We won't be able to get him. However, with Klingberg taking over in Dallas, could Honka be somewhat available? We would still have to give up a lot, but he is a future #1 D-man, and Klingberg has taken his spot.

 

To DAL:

Hamhuis (50% retained)

Higgins

Briesbois

Jensen

Vey

2nd Round Pick 2016

3rd Round Pick 2016

2nd Round Pick (from Columbus)

 

To VAN:

Honka

Moen

 

Hamhuis will steady out their D-core, but hopefully he can pick up his level of play soon. Higgins will fill out their bottom-6. Briesbois is a good defense prospect that could somewhat replace Honka. Jensen and Vey are spare parts, but still hold some value, especially if injuries occur. Jensen would also benefit from going to a run-and-gun team like Dallas I think. The picks are thrown in for value. This is about how much we would need to give up to get him.

 

We get Moen back so Dallas can fit Hamhuis under the cap. He's on an expiring contract so we should be fine there.

 

Honka would be the future of our D-core along with Hutton.

 

Lineup after the trade:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Vrbata

Moen - Horvat - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Burrows

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Bartkowksi  -  Weber

Hutton  -  Sbisa

 

Just like any trade involving Hamhuis, a hole is left in our top-4, making our defense weaker than it already is. However, Hutton will most likely step into top-4 minutes next year. If we could also sign someone like Demers we would be completely set:

 

Edler  -  Tanev

Hutton  -  Demers

Sbisa  -  Honka

 

If Dallas really thinks they can make a run this year, I could almost see this happening.

As above.  I really like the Honka concept. But a total; of 4 2knd and 3rd round picks (incl Brisbois), Higgins and Jensen?

Somehow I don't see, given how Benning "loves" his picks, that we can give up that package? I'd go a more classic package! 

Dallas has Klingburg and Demers on the right. Funny Demers clicking this year when he did not last? And lots of prospects (Lindell) but are still not that strong with Odouya & Goligoski as key minute men on the left side. Hamhuis could be a great deadline acquisition for them.

Hamhuis + Gaunce (they need a young LW) for Honka Moen & a first.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everything is dependent on price you pay to acquire, where you can fit said player in the line up, who you can play the guy with?

From what I understand Honka is two things beyond the talent we hear about.

- A great competitor! Look how that makes size almost irrelevant with Gallagher for example.

- An explosive athlete. He's apparently very strong for his size, has great balance and low body mass which keeps him from being pushed around. It also allows him to explode to pucks before guys, and out of the way of guys trying to hit him.

This makes him different than some small D. And did we mentioned the great skills where could maintain control of the puck throughout?

I see Honka as a good target. And Dallas a team who has depth in D prospects to absorb his loss. Possibly a contender? I could see common ground for a deal!

Plus they already have Klingburg. Its one thing to have one small guy on your D core. Multiple guys another...

We need a crease clearing D with a big shot.  I never said he was soft, I said small.  Playing against Brown, Kopitar, Lucic, Kesler Getzlaf, Perry, we need someone that can handle his own and lay the body when needed. Tanev, Hutton, and Edler of late aren't intimidating anyone, our D gets walked over.  Subban also is a really big competitor with a ton of offensive talent and a right handed shot. if were trading for the ideal player based on this teams needs, Honka isn't that guy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We need a crease clearing D with a big shot.  I never said he was soft, I said small.  Playing against Brown, Kopitar, Lucic, Kesler Getzlaf, Perry, we need someone that can handle his own and lay the body when needed. Tanev, Hutton, and Edler of late aren't intimidating anyone, our D gets walked over.  Subban also is a really big competitor with a ton of offensive talent and a right handed shot. if were trading for the ideal player based on this teams needs, Honka isn't that guy.  

I absolutely agree with that. Next year;

Edler / Tanev

Hutton / Byfuglien (Ufa)

Sbisa / Honka

Pedan / Tryamkin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...