theminister Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 6 minutes ago, J.R. said: We actually have pretty good future 4-8 prospect depth, particularly on the left. What we lack is top 4 and ESPECIALLY top 2 capable depth. We have a couple of promising "maybes" but very little in the way of what one would consider "blue chip". Yes but we don't know yet how the development curve of all those players will go. We might not have 'out of the gate' top 2 potential but it doesn't mean there won't be some. Hutton, Tryamkin, Brisebois could all reach that level. Chemistry in a D pairing could go a long way. Sometimes players bring out the best of each other. Even with Pedan it's not unthinkable. He might continue to improve into a solid #2 support D. It's a far reaching expectation, which I don't have, but it shouldn't be ruled out. Muzzin, for example, isn't what you'd call a #2 from a skills perspective but that's where he plays, and he was unsigned by Pitts. Granted, he has Doughty to play with but that's a different story. There are lots of top 2 guys across the league in that mold, who you wouldn't call top pairing potential. Pedan needs reps at the NHL level, like every young d-man, for the most part. It will take him a season or two of playing regularly to adjust completely and I hope he is given the chance. The package is too much to ignore, especially in conjunction with a Tryamkin and Sbisa on the roster too. Clearly the D needs an overhaul but I think that process is well underway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I can see pedan maybe becominga 6-7 D he has time to develop and he seems to be playing a little more relaxed. He's looking around now rather than chasing. Plus he has that other asset he can throw them and maybe do some PK. I don't think Nolan will ask for a rematch after last night. Tryamkin not so sure his feet seem suspect ( unlike or not as noticable as Pedan for instance ) so I'd put pedan ahead of Tryamkin is development but the one that stands out IMO is Hutton, ice in his vein ( which is remarable for a rookie) and can skate himself out of trouble. I'd like to think he's a 3-4 D next year or maybe the year after he might be better. IMO he has the best uoward mobility of all the prospects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 4 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I can see pedan maybe becominga 6-7 D he has time to develop and he seems to be playing a little more relaxed. He's looking around now rather than chasing. Plus he has that other asset he can throw them and maybe do some PK. I don't think Nolan will ask for a rematch after last night. Tryamkin not so sure his feet seem suspect ( unlike or not as noticable as Pedan for instance ) so I'd put pedan ahead of Tryamkin is development but the one that stands out IMO is Hutton, ice in his vein ( which is remarable for a rookie) and can skate himself out of trouble. I'd like to think he's a 3-4 D next year or maybe the year after he might be better. IMO he has the best uoward mobility of all the prospects Have you watched Tryamkin play before? For a guy that huge, he skates amazing. It's one of his best assets. He is developing fine in Russia. And his upside is huge. He would be above Pedan if in NA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 30 minutes ago, theminister said: Yes but we don't know yet how the development curve of all those players will go. We might not have 'out of the gate' top 2 potential but it doesn't mean there won't be some. Hutton, Tryamkin, Brisebois could all reach that level. Chemistry in a D pairing could go a long way. Sometimes players bring out the best of each other. Even with Pedan it's not unthinkable. He might continue to improve into a solid #2 support D. It's a far reaching expectation, which I don't have, but it shouldn't be ruled out. Muzzin, for example, isn't what you'd call a #2 from a skills perspective but that's where he plays, and he was unsigned by Pitts. Granted, he has Doughty to play with but that's a different story. There are lots of top 2 guys across the league in that mold, who you wouldn't call top pairing potential. Pedan needs reps at the NHL level, like every young d-man, for the most part. It will take him a season or two of playing regularly to adjust completely and I hope he is given the chance. The package is too much to ignore, especially in conjunction with a Tryamkin and Sbisa on the roster too. Clearly the D needs an overhaul but I think that process is well underway This in spades. Anyone of the prospects the Canucks have in the system could develop into a top 4. Consider that both Shea Weber and Duncan Keith were selected 49th overall (2003) and 54th overall (2002). Both were second rounders who through hard work and perseverance have become dominant true top pairing defensemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 13 minutes ago, drummerboy said: Have you watched Tryamkin play before? For a guy that huge, he skates amazing. It's one of his best assets. He is developing fine in Russia. And his upside is huge. He would be above Pedan if in NA I've only see him in the Spengler Cup which or should be below AHL and KHL standard. They're playing against opposition from the Mannheim DEL and Davos Swiss "A" league etc. frankly I had expected more but who's to say some good coaching might help him. I think the deciding factor is salary. He likely will get paid more than his value in the KHL ( with the drop in the ruble I'd think NA players will be less next season ) so Russian home grown plkayers will be worth more. Why come over to the AHL and make peanuts with no gurantees. I hope he does at the end of the Russain season and maybe gets some games in Utica and THAT'S when we'll get a true read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 1 hour ago, theminister said: Yes but we don't know yet how the development curve of all those players will go. We might not have 'out of the gate' top 2 potential but it doesn't mean there won't be some. Hutton, Tryamkin, Brisebois could all reach that level. Chemistry in a D pairing could go a long way. Sometimes players bring out the best of each other. Even with Pedan it's not unthinkable. He might continue to improve into a solid #2 support D. It's a far reaching expectation, which I don't have, but it shouldn't be ruled out. Muzzin, for example, isn't what you'd call a #2 from a skills perspective but that's where he plays, and he was unsigned by Pitts. Granted, he has Doughty to play with but that's a different story. There are lots of top 2 guys across the league in that mold, who you wouldn't call top pairing potential. Pedan needs reps at the NHL level, like every young d-man, for the most part. It will take him a season or two of playing regularly to adjust completely and I hope he is given the chance. The package is too much to ignore, especially in conjunction with a Tryamkin and Sbisa on the roster too. Clearly the D needs an overhaul but I think that process is well underway Absolutely guys can and do exceed expectations and I totally agree with the chemistry possibility as well. Hence why I said "promising maybes". But as I said, we don't have any blue chip, sure thing, top 2 projecting D. Sure could useasily even one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 3 minutes ago, J.R. said: Absolutely guys can and do exceed expectations and I totally agree with the chemistry possibility as well. Hence why I said "promising maybes". But as I said, we don't have any blue chip, sure thing, top 2 projecting D. Sure could useasily even one. Of course. I'd take them at any position. I suppose the relevant question is "How many top pairing guys were top pairing prospects at the time they were drafted?" I'd guess less than half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 23 hours ago, Fred65 said: I can see pedan maybe becominga 6-7 D he has time to develop and he seems to be playing a little more relaxed. He's looking around now rather than chasing. Plus he has that other asset he can throw them and maybe do some PK. I don't think Nolan will ask for a rematch after last night. Tryamkin not so sure his feet seem suspect ( unlike or not as noticable as Pedan for instance ) so I'd put pedan ahead of Tryamkin is development but the one that stands out IMO is Hutton, ice in his vein ( which is remarable for a rookie) and can skate himself out of trouble. I'd like to think he's a 3-4 D next year or maybe the year after he might be better. IMO he has the best uoward mobility of all the prospects But how is he with live grenades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: But how is he with live grenades? LMAO!! ... what ever happened to that guy ? (Meanwhile, deep in the cellar of CDC, the faint jingle of empty beer bottles could be heard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, SilentSam said: LMAO!! ... what ever happened to that guy ? (Meanwhile, deep in the cellar of CDC, the faint jingle of empty beer bottles could be heard) That's who I was asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I was just re-reading the Pedan trade thread and was amused by the posters taking exception to my suggestion he was 'almost NHL ready.' Its always enlightening to go back and read comments from a year ago. I won't necro it but here's the link. Good times. http://forum.canucks.com/topic/365395-trade-van-alexandre-mallet-pick-nyi-andrey-pedan/#comment-12460586 It's too bad we don't have the old Pedan thread also. There was lots of gold in there too. Does anyone still hold that we overpaid for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 5 minutes ago, theminister said: It's too bad we don't have the old Pedan thread also. There was lots of gold in there too. Guys like BanTSN repeatedly calling him "nothing but a goon." Was really looking forward to quoting those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: Guys like BanTSN repeatedly calling him "nothing but a goon." Was really looking forward to quoting those. Yeah, grizz...but that's what certain posters live to do....find the downside in any situation and then claim they are 'realists' when they are actually just being pessimistic. It is the guys who say they don't know a player and then crap on the move that bugs me. That's why there is still a perception out there that JB throws away picks. I mean...excuse me? I'm not even trying to toot my own horn...I really just want to point out how wrong certain posters habitually are rather than how right I and others were. Would anyone like to flip Pedan for a 2016 3rd now? Or was JB correct in evaluating that we need a player like this, at this development stage, in our system more than a pick? It seems pretty obvious, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said: But how is he with live grenades? LOL But think what i said was confirmed in the WD interview. He said at training camp he simply didn't rate Pedan as an option. But is surprised at how much better he's become. Greene should take a bow and JB should send him a thank you card, He's clearly taken big strides since Spetember and good for him, Green and the Canucks. He's no longer the guy that Garth Snow basically gave away. Every ones a winner except Snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 47 minutes ago, theminister said: I was just re-reading the Pedan trade thread and was amused by the posters taking exception to my suggestion he was 'almost NHL ready.' Its always enlightening to go back and read comments from a year ago. I won't necro it but here's the link. Good times. http://forum.canucks.com/topic/365395-trade-van-alexandre-mallet-pick-nyi-andrey-pedan/#comment-12460586 It's too bad we don't have the old Pedan thread also. There was lots of gold in there too. Does anyone still hold that we overpaid for him? ... I liked the trade from the get-go.. Anything that starts the height and strength chart climbing is a definite improvement.. 19 minutes ago, Fred65 said: LOL But think what i said was confirmed in the WD interview. He said at training camp he simply didn't rate Pedan as an option. But is surprised at how much better he's become. Greene should take a bow and JB should send him a thank you card, He's clearly taken big strides since Spetember and good for him, Green and the Canucks. He's no longer the guy that Garth Snow basically gave away. Every ones a winner except Snow Travis Greene is a gifted coach and mentor.. Kept the Portland Winterhawks strong for many years.. and if we had the kaleidoscope to look into the future of Canucks Coaching.. hmmmm. Pedan will blossom next season, maybe sooner if he is given the opportunity to fail, overcome, succeed and excel. He does move well once he gets ice time to warm up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 41 minutes ago, Fred65 said: LOL But think what i said was confirmed in the WD interview. He said at training camp he simply didn't rate Pedan as an option. But is surprised at how much better he's become. Greene should take a bow and JB should send him a thank you card, He's clearly taken big strides since Spetember and good for him, Green and the Canucks. He's no longer the guy that Garth Snow basically gave away. Every ones a winner except Snow Tried to tell ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 We've had a long run here of D-men that, frankly, didn't intimidate anyone. Sure, some of them, especially Willie Mitchell, could keep the crease fairly clear, but not really scare anyone. I look forward to Pedan's progression next year. I know we need him here, but as soon as possible I would like to see him back in Utica, and keep learning from Greene. Let him come in next year with some confidence that he can play at this level, and having learned just a little more about positioning, and I believe we have a legit 5-6 Dman next year that can keep a few people honest. I would really just love to see Pedan crush Marchand in a corner; the dude reminds me a less talented Ken Linseman, nothing but a rat scurrying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 20 minutes ago, SilentSam said: ... I liked the trade from the get-go.. Anything that starts the height and strength chart climbing is a definite improvement.. Travis Greene is a gifted coach and mentor.. Kept the Portland Winterhawks strong for many years.. and if we had the kaleidoscope to look into the future of Canucks Coaching.. hmmmm. Pedan will blossom next season, maybe sooner if he is given the opportunity to fail, overcome, succeed and excel. He does move well once he gets ice time to warm up. He would really excel with a very talented puck mover for a partner. I think he would do really well with Weber. Weber plays soft, and Padan would certainly make him feel safer out there. Then, in time, Padan can do the same for Suban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 3 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: Tried to tell ya... Hey it's JB & WD that you need to convince. The fact is he wasn't very good at the start of the year and any one who could see through or past that qualifies as being some sort of swami or maybe has a crystal ball. He's improved a lot since that time Pedan then and now are different players. Every one wants him to succeed and every one can see we're missing that element he brings. I still doubt he rises above a 5-6 slot but that's OK. I remember Murzyn, certainly not fleet of foot but pure meaness in the game. No one wanted to play against him...ruthless. But paired with Lumme they were a good NHL pair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 1 hour ago, Fred65 said: Hey it's JB & WD that you need to convince. The fact is he wasn't very good at the start of the year and any one who could see through or past that qualifies as being some sort of swami or maybe has a crystal ball. He's improved a lot since that time Pedan then and now are different players. Every one wants him to succeed and every one can see we're missing that element he brings. I still doubt he rises above a 5-6 slot but that's OK. I remember Murzyn, certainly not fleet of foot but pure meaness in the game. No one wanted to play against him...ruthless. But paired with Lumme they were a good NHL pair No Carnac required. Those of us who've been following him know the great progress he made LAST year. All you saw was 2 or 3 shifts in the first period of his only exhibition game, and made your judgement based solely on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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