3 on 3 obviously is not suiting us

[alt kilgore]

13 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Stubbornness has cost us points. Why does he keep going back to the Sedins? This isn't pre-season anymore where they scored against the lowly oilers.

Like the PK, the Sedins are not suited for 3 on 3. They're by far our best offensive players but the coach needs to realize that you have to use certain personnel in certain situations.

I'm surprised Baertschi hasn't been given a shot. Actually, I'm not.

Higgins-Weber-Hamhuis LOL.

 

Yeah, I remember that game.  That was when everyone, I guess including Willie D, thought that 3 on 3 was a godsend for the Sedins. They made it look so easy with their stellar passing skills. It was a beauty of a goal.

Unfortunately Willie D used that one preseason game to nail down his starting lineup for overtime. One problem is of course the fact that they cannot get back quickly after a turn over. They at least need a speedster with them.

But the second reason was pointed out by (I think) Tomlinson. The Sedins game is one drawing players to them on the boards and out skilling them and looking for their brother to pass to.   Their game is small ice. They have forgotten their Euro roots and all that big ice. USE THE SPACE!  And USE YOUR THIRD MAN!.

[mll]

The Blues had a clip where they discussed their OT strategy.  One of their comments was that OT ends 80% off the rush and that they might as well go all in and use 3F (don't think they have so far).  Canucks on the other hand think that goals get scored by using a line of Hamhuis, Weber and Higgins - wasn't the first time they used 2D+1F.  

By the way the Blues used Ty Rattie's speed in OT before sending him back to the AHL - he set up Backes for the game winner against the Wild.  Speaking of the WIld, Vanek who is their leading goal scorer barely sees a shift in OT simply because he doesn't have the footspeed (didn't take a shift in the last two OT games) same for Pominville who is much like Vrbata totally snake bitten so not much of a help in OT.

[chickenman92]

3 on 3, not really a concern of mine - I'm sure the law of averages will balance that out. besides, if the Sedins, Vrbata, Hamhuis, etc... are making the big money, you've got to 'ride or die' with them. It's a lot easier to explain to your boss a loss when you put out your big guys, then one where you played the cheap talent. 

But like I said, not a concern - my concern is all the leads that are being blown in the third period. I believe all the games that have made it to 3 on 3 have been because the team can't finish anyone off. That's on the players - where's the killer instinct?  

[chickenman92]

59 minutes ago, mll said:

The Blues had a clip where they discussed their OT strategy.  One of their comments was that OT ends 80% off the rush and that they might as well go all in and use 3F (don't think they have so far).  Canucks on the other hand think that goals get scored by using a line of Hamhuis, Weber and Higgins - wasn't the first time they used 2D+1F.  

By the way the Blues used Ty Rattie's speed in OT before sending him back to the AHL - he set up Backes for the game winner against the Wild.  Speaking of the WIld, Vanek who is their leading goal scorer barely sees a shift in OT simply because he doesn't have the footspeed (didn't take a shift in the last two OT games) same for Pominville who is much like Vrbata totally snake bitten so not much of a help in OT.

They talked about OT here in Calgary a little, the Flames believe your strategy is based on your team's strength. The Flames have five defenceman that can skate and have high skill levels, so they have no problem going 1 forward and 2 defenceman - not saying they do that all the time, but they are fine with that. 

I believe the thinking is their D are just as skilled as a lot of their forwards and having two D on the ice almost guarantees they have a D back for any 2-on-1 chances. 

Canucks on the other hand, the only 2 D I'd use are Hutton and Tanev with two forwards.  

[Tortorella's Rant]

The nice thing about 3 on 3 is that when we get there, I can stop watching and go do something else.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, mll said:

The Blues had a clip where they discussed their OT strategy.  One of their comments was that OT ends 80% off the rush and that they might as well go all in and use 3F (don't think they have so far). 

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Something along this ^^^. If they're going to put the Sedins out there 3on 3 they need to put them with a D that has wheels. Hell, I'd almost consider keeping them with Hansen and no D-man. He's one of our faster and best defensive players.

Past them, they need to play other guys with wheels, rookies or not. Sutter, McCann, Virtanen, Baer, Bartowski etc...all guys with speed. Pair the more creative guys like Baer with less creative guys like Sutter/Bartowski etc.

 

[TheGuardian_]

For some reason my post was locked out, don't know what I did but.....

 

Well for the Nucks, as they are going right now, it is just extra skating practice.

SO,

The team already has the pity point,

why not put the kids out there with one mandate only, show us those offensive skills that got you drafted. 
It gives them extra icetime that as it stands isn't costing the team the point they already have.
Does anyone remember that Virtanen is supposed to be really fast, have a good shot and can drive the net and is not JUST a superior third line hitter?

How about Baertschi is supposed to be really fast and be a goal scorer, with not much hitting in the OT he might flourish.

Ditto for Shinkruk, McCann and whichever draft pick they choose.

I am not saying to put all three out at the same time but with Markstrom's passing ability, maybe two with a good defensive vet?

Send them out there with no more instruction than "score a goal"

IMHO this accomplishes, resting the older vets, possibly helps the "kids" confidence in scoring, definitely gets them extra icetime.

Just brainstorming since they appear to be playing, for the most part, worrying more about the defensive game than scoring, might loosen them up a bit.

 

“There are 3 kinds of men. The ones that learn by readin’. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.”

[Lancaster]

The Canucks are lacking a pure offensive defenseman.  Hutton may someday become one, but as of now, the options are either Tanev... who has no offensive ability, or Edler, who nowadays seems like a deer in the headlights. 

The Sedins are very slow, so they need a speedy defenseman with some offensive skills to be with them.  Maybe Weber might be the better option now. 

Of course, I'd rather the Sedins not be on the ice... McCann, Baertschi, Horvat, Virtanen should be the ones on the ice.  Everyone always say that the lack of time and space is what younger players have most difficulty in adjusting to the NHL game.... 3-on-3, lots of time and space for those youngsters. 

[DeNiro]

Jason Botchford ‏@botchford  34m34 minutes ago

Speed killing Canucks in overtime. Benning agrees it's maybe time to play the kids (more)

[Crabcakes]

Iain MacIntyre in a rather annoying interview on the Sekeres show today gave an interesting perspective on 3 on 3 play.  He said that it's all about defense.  This is why Willie doesn't want to play guys like Virtanen, Baertschi, Shikaruk etc.  He says that once a play is made that puts one of our players on the wrong side of one of their players and we lose control of the puck, there is an odd man rush going against us.  So MacIntyre thinks that the key to 3 on 3 is that when you take your shots on goal, either all 3 players have to be on the defensive side of the opposition players or the goalie must be forced to freeze the puck (or you score).  Otherwise you make yourself vulnerable.  Thoughts?

Here's the link http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/macintyre-canucks-need-to-figure-out-overtime-quickly-1.395302

[Jack Fig]

3on3 may not be suiting us, but far more importantly, it's not suiting me. Can't stand it.

Please NHL, do the right thing, think of me.

[Mcfly]

Is this not just beating a dead horse. After all, there are a multitude of things this roster needs to correct, and unfortunately it might not just be one season of experience that fixes it.

With any luck, we'll get a surprise of a season in the next few, that puts us into the playoffs again soon, but if it's not this season, then you won't find me crying about losing. There are many reasons to lose. If they can win a few and give us some good consitant hockey, I'll be pleased. Dump this third period bad luck garbage already.

[PONCHE]

From a forward standpoint I'd like to see more of:

Baer, Hansen, McCann, Virt, Sutter and mostly Burrows

And a whole heck of a lot less of Vrbata (too lazy if something goes wrong),

 

D-men during OT

WEBER! Gorramit, stop using Weber for anything important!

Tanev is ideal (not a liability offensively, decent speed in getting back defensively),

Edler is ok (I'd prefer him to be a bit more conservative personally),

Hutton is surprisingly more uncertain than I had expected, still a decent option,

Bartkowski is fine (Speeeeeed)

Sbisa I would be fine with as well, but ideally he, Bart, and Weber would be riding pine for OT

[Guest]

.

[cproy]

Agree that fresh talent should be put out on the ice... my suggestion would be to see if Hovat/Virtanen/Hutton would work some north/south hockey!

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

I think this 3 on 3 is stupid actually, not a fan of it at all, not because canucks suck at it, just in general. I liked the 4 on 4 much more, seemed more like hockey, 3 on 3 just doesn't feel right.

[duc_evo]

1.H.Sedin McCann Hutton

If we break up the Sedins, their lack of speed won't be a problem for us in the future. I think McCann finish with Hank's sauce passes, that would be deadly.

2.Baerstchi D. Sedin Tanev

I'm not a fan of Sven but he does have ("NHL Speed" Benning) and  tries to make smart plays so Danny would gel well him

3.Horvat Virtanen Bartkowski

Horvat needs someone to create space which Virtanen can create. They should be a interesting duo.

[fanfor42]

On Mon Nov 16 2015 21:20:28 GMT-0800, DeNiro said:

We're 0-6 because of our  coach. There's really no other excuse.

He still doesn't understand the strength and weaknesses of his players. Or maybe it's just stubborness.

To put out two d-men in 3-on-3 just shows how little he understands this format. Instead of going for it, he's trying to play D until he can get the Sedins out again. You can't play D in 3-on-3!

Meanwhile he refuses to put out our speedy skilled players like Baertschi, Virtanen, and Shinkaruk. He needs to look around the league and see that smaller skilled guys, and guys with speed are the guys having success in 3-on-3.

We're 0 and 7 now in 3 on 3. I think DeNiro's post should be quoted every time canucks play 3 on 3 until they finally win one.

[DownUndaCanuck]

It's not so much who's on the ice, but what we're doing with the puck.

The Canucks have always been a passing team, always a horizontal, passing-based offence, ever since the Sedins came into town. That's rubbed off on our defence and other forwards too. They like lateral passes, pretty plays all over the ice (even the defensive zone) and that's all well and good for 5-on-5 where there's not much space and these little passes help them evade pressure.

4-on-4, it sometimes works but rarely. We've always been a bad 4-on-4 team because of these same horizontal, lateral passes that get us in trouble and don't really help us get up the ice quickly enough. We're always getting scored on 4-on-4, especially the Sedins, who have each other and no one else to pass to. The cycle game that we do so well 5-on-5 just doesn't work when there are less bodies because you need all those bodies for it to be effective.

3-on-3 just exaggerates the problems we had with 4-on-4. A good coach and GM would have seen this coming. I'm not saying I'm better than WD but I predicted the Sedins would absolutely suck at 3-on-3, and they do, but they're not the only problem.

1) Sedins are slow, and 3-on-3 allows a north-south, fast skating style of play to thrive, not a horizontal passing-based one. You can't trick people with passes because the puck carrier only has 2 people to pass to and one is a defenceman. Really eliminates the Sedins' strong points. They should rarely be out there in OT nowadays.

2) Our defence like to make pretty little horizontal passes quite a bit and aren't good skaters. That gets THEM in trouble. Point and case on the Edler mishap. We lack a Karlsson/Vatanen etc. who can skate really well and that's what you need on 3-on-3, not only to jump up in the rush but to get the puck out, and we suck at both.

3) Too much passing, not enough team skating. Possession is everything 3-on-3 and we like to pass the puck far too much which often leads to turnovers and slows the game down as opposed to rushing it north-south up the ice. This goes for everyone on the team, and is a coaching problem, not so much a player problem.

How to fix these problems?

1) Don't get the Sedins out there in OT. Sounds harsh but their game is not built for it, and we need to play to our strengths. Sure, let them out there if there's an offensive zone faceoff, but that's about it.

2) Not much we can do, our defence sucks. Weber may actually be our best chance at a puck mover, or Hutton, but even they're not good enough. JB needs to find us defencemen, that's the only fix here.

3) Coaching coaching coaching. WD needs to realize what I've just said about and play to the strengths of 3-on-3, NOT TO THE STRENGTHS OF OUR TEAM. They're COMPLETELY different. We need to play more north-south and less horizontal, lateral passing, and we need to carry the puck more and pass less.

Try these things and we'll have far more success than going 0-7. That's pathetic. A good coach realizes these problems and adapts, lets see if WD can or this trend just continues over the entire course of the season.

[Honky Cat]

You need players who can transition the fastest...from going up ice for a scoring opportunity,...to catching a guy going going to your net.....Horvat is not a guy who should be on 3 on 3 (no disrespect to Bo,he's a good player),but he does not have that acceleration (as a Hansen,McCann,Vrbata.

Having Edler on the ice is not a problem,if you have 2 forwards who are quick enough to make up for the odd gaffe...Likewise,get a mobile defender,to make up for the Sedins lack of footspeed.

Why Willie keeps putting out Horvat and Edler together on 3 on 3 is beyond me....Even try Baertschi,the guy is made for 3 on 3 (much like a shootout specialist),lots of open ice.

I'm not in the fire WD camp...I think he does a decent job,except for his choices of players on the 3 on 3..He has a really poor read for having the right players on the ice..my .02 cents