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If the Canucks miss the Playoffs


captaincowbasher

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13 hours ago, EdgarM said:

My thoughts exactly. First losing streak of the season and its the "tanksters" out in full force. If we were getting blown out in games then maybe there would be some concern but most losses have been by 1 goal so we ARE competing. I see the injuries being the main reason for recent losses. Nice to have Sbisa back and Weber out but it will be a lot better once Sutter returns.

This is not a losing streak, this is exactly what many of us thought the Canucks are, a weak team, their two top forwards are to slow,  their defence is not skilled enough or physical enough and they have  a whole group of fans with media members that are still living off the 2011 run. They need a complete rebuild, which includes the 1st line.

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13 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

If the twins decide they want to continue playing once their current contracts expire, I absolutely re-sign them. (salary to be commensurate with their production at the time)

Even on the decline, the Sedins are excellent examples of what a professional hockey player should be and they can continue to serve as exemplary mentors to the younger players on the team. They also should be able to form the basis of a solid second and/or third line, once the next wave of Canucks assume the roles of top-line players.

As far as the Canucks being "terrible" I see the team for what it is: a team in transition. We are slowly moving away from the up-tempo, offensive juggernaut team that we had around the turn of the decade, to more of a hard-working, balanced scoring team. That being the goal, there is still a ways to go. The Canucks are still too easily overmatched physically and still need to upgrade the defense. The fact that there are so many young players integrated into the lineup dictates that there are going to be frequent breakdowns, which we've seen plenty of during this recent road trip.

I'm okay with the losing, as I think the team is generally moving in the right direction. (not to belabor the point, but I wanted to start the move last season) Let the kids make their mistakes (and hopefully learn from them) finish where you finish and take the player that's ultimately going to be integral to the turnaround once draft day rolls around.

Repeat if necessary.

Resigning the Sedin's is not an option for this club, Trade, retire or UFA. The club would love it, if the Sedins asked for a move for an opportunity to win a Cup.

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We are going to be a fringe playoff team... either just making it or just missing it.  

We are going to do that while playing and developing a whack of our younger talent.

A youth movement AND winning... gee that sounds terrible.

You don't always have to draft your elite player by sucking badly and scoring a first overall pick in a year where they guy happens to be an elite talent, you can pick them up as a UFA.  You just need to have drafted some of your other players well to fill out the roster without all being expensive free agents.  As it stands we have darn solid 2nd and 3rd lines shaping up from our young talent.  McCann and Boeser have a shot at even being top line guys in their prime.  Add in an elite UFA forward and a #1 D, our roster starts to look pretty good.

When the Sedins retire or take a lower contract to be 2nd line players, we will have many millions of dollars freed up and can take a run at any of the top UFAs out there and offer max dollars.

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7 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

This is not a losing streak, this is exactly what many of us thought the Canucks are, a weak team, their two top forwards are to slow,  their defence is not skilled enough or physical enough and they have  a whole group of fans with media members that are still living off the 2011 run. They need a complete rebuild, which includes the 1st line.

We haven't even hit the 1/4 point of the season and you can decipher a losing streak from a losing season? There are plenty of games left and anything can happen between now and the end of the regular season.

I remember posters at the pre-season point predicted that injuries would decide our fate and to me that is where we are at. Taking out our depth and putting in more rookies presents an imbalance in the team which we have seen. 

Its funny how CDC change their views on the team so quickly depending how well or how bad the team is playing. The team is constantly changing(injuries,trades,signings,sent to minors,brought up from minors,releases etc.) which changes our compete level on a daily, monthly, yearly basis. Some of us need to realize this and not make an assumption on the team after a small sample of games in a 84 game season.

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Linden fetched us Bertuzzi and then ended up coming back ...but Linden was also quite a bit younger than the Sedins are now when he was first traded.  So they stay Canucks until they retire and it's special and stuff and that's kinda cool, a real good story for a franchise somewhat short on real good stories. 

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10 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

Resigning the Sedin's is not an option for this club, Trade, retire or UFA. The club would love it, if the Sedins asked for a move for an opportunity to win a Cup.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware that you were in the team's inner circle....

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Getting a top pick will be great for this team's future. The out of town scoreboard has been great for the tank the last couple of days. The Pacific is also turning it around with the sharks and ducks playing better. The flames seem to be turning things around too and just beat Chicago yesterday. 

We have a tough stretch coming up the next week or so and if we do bad I can see Anaheim and Calgary passing us. Colorado and Edmonton need to pick it up more to pass us though. 

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9 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Getting a top pick will be great for this team's future. The out of town scoreboard has been great for the tank the last couple of days. The Pacific is also turning it around with the sharks and ducks playing better. The flames seem to be turning things around too and just beat Chicago yesterday. 

We have a tough stretch coming up the next week or so and if we do bad I can see Anaheim and Calgary passing us. Colorado and Edmonton need to pick it up more to pass us though. 

So here's my question then....why stick around?  Why not leave until the day that they have become so horrible that you can place all your eggs in a "one top pick" basket and start from there?

 

Because, for some of us, it gets tiring to hear the constant clamber of those on board the tank train.  The people who count on and speak of this game plan like it's a given...a recipe for guaranteed success.  Newsflash:  there isn't one.

 

I prefer to let the season play out with people who give it a good effort and try to win.  And then you let the chips fall where they may.  Because the team's future is tomorrow, and the day after that.  In how players develop and what messages are sent to them along that journey.

 

People wanting to bring in a hero that will save the team?  Luongo was that at one point.  Blue chip prospects and players can't do it all alone so you have to nurture players and have a great supporting cast and environment.  Tanking does give way for that.

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Honestly, I thought the Canucks would do this last year. Be in a lot of 1 goal games, and just miss the playoffs. 

But last year they exceeded my expectations. Regardless what happens in April. The sun will rise and there will be another day. 

I just hope the team learns lessons and gets better. Maybe even have a great second half. Don't the Canucks usually have a bad November and have a great December? 

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56 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

So here's my question then....why stick around?  Why not leave until the day that they have become so horrible that you can place all your eggs in a "one top pick" basket and start from there?

Because the priorities just change when watching now.  Instead of cheering for a futile playoffs run, which is short sighted, I cheer for hope and this team's future now.  Some won't agree with tankers, but it's because they don't think long term.

Being a middling team is the worst thing that can happen. Sure it'll give you short term excitement like last year, but with no real shot at actually winning a cup.  I want this team to be great long term because the Sedins are retiring soon and we need the next generation of stars to take over for them.  To do that we need top picks.  Don't forget the last time the canucks had top 5 picks was when we drafted the Sedins and they were drafted 2nd and 3rd overall and set us up for 10+ years. 

We need that again. Look I get why the anti tankers can't stomach losing in the short term, but it will be worth it if we can land top picks and find our next Sedins. The anti tankers don't want to think about 5 years from now and what's best for this team's future. They just want to think in the now and see wins even though that hurts our long term future. The immediate losses hurt enjoyment today.  Buffalo was awful last year, but their plan worked and they got eichel as a consolation prize after missing out on mcdavid.  Buffalo's rebuild has been going according to plan and they look decent this year.  The future is bright there.

Tanking is by no means a guarantee, but it gives a higher chance of success than being a middling team. The hawks, pens and Kings all have won cups due to top end lottery picks.  A lot detest tanking due to ethical reasons of playing the right way and playing to win. If cups were handed out on a moral code basis then sure I'd be anti tank too, but when the system rewards tanking with top picks then I say take advantage of the system to your benefit. Also, I don't advocate players playing to lose because players always play to win like Buffalo players hated losing last year. It's management's job to set up the rebuild by just not having a talented team like Buffalo last year and the leafs this year. Although reimer going superman on them is hurting their tank. 

The anti tankers hate it now, but will be enjoying this team if we get great picks and become contenders again.  After never winning a cup I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs.  That kind of feeling is for markets like Arizona and Florida. I want to actually be contenders like in 2011 when we do make the playoffs. I don't want to be one and done like last year. 

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22 minutes ago, Toews said:

Good post. I don't get the hostility towards the "tankers". Both sides want the same thing, they just want to take different paths towards that goal. Both approaches have their pros and cons. 

Yup!  We all want a cup in the end.  The hostility comes from the anti tank crowd taking the moral high ground about not cheering for this team to lose.  In a vacuum, that would be correct, but in a world where tanking is rewarded, it's jut not the best option.  If the anti tank crowd could just look at this objectively and logically without any moral bias, then they would see that tanking for top picks gives us the best chance to become contenders in the future.

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27 minutes ago, FireGillis said:

Because the priorities just change when watching now.  Instead of cheering for a futile playoffs run, which is short sighted, I cheer for hope and this team's future now.  Some won't agree with tankers, but it's because they don't think long term.

Being a middling team is the worst thing that can happen. Sure it'll give you short term excitement like last year, but with no real shot at actually winning a cup.  I want this team to be great long term because the Sedins are retiring soon and we need the next generation of stars to take over for them.  To do that we need top picks.  Don't forget the last time the canucks had top 5 picks was when we drafted the Sedins and they were drafted 2nd and 3rd overall and set us up for 10+ years. 

We need that again. Look I get why the anti tankers can't stomach losing in the short term, but it will be worth it if we can land top picks and find our next Sedins. The anti tankers don't want to think about 5 years from now and what's best for this team's future. They just want to think in the now and see wins even though that hurts our long term future. The immediate losses hurt enjoyment today.  Buffalo was awful last year, but their plan worked and they got eichel as a consolation prize after missing out on mcdavid.  Buffalo's rebuild has been going according to plan and they look decent this year.  The future is bright there.

Tanking is by no means a guarantee, but it gives a higher chance of success than being a middling team. The hawks, pens and Kings all have won cups due to top end lottery picks.  A lot detest tanking due to ethical reasons of playing the right win and playing to win. If cups were handed out on a morale code basis then sure I'd be anti tank too, but when the system rewards tanking with top picks then I say take advantage of the system to your benefit. Also, I don't advocate players playing to lose because players always play to win like Buffalo players hated losing last year. It's management's job to set up the rebuild by just not having a talented team like Buffalo last year and the leafs this year. Although reimer going superman on them is hurting their tank. 

The anti tankers hate it now, but will be enjoying this team if we get great picks and become contenders again.  After never winning a cup I'm not satisfied with just making the playoffs.  That kind of feeling is for markets like Arizona and Florida. I want to actually be contenders like in 2011 when we do make the playoffs. I don't want to be one and done like last year. 

I think what some people here mean is that the team has already chosen its course of action. You may not like it, but constant complaining will not change things.

Tankers are asking highly competitive players to intentionally play poorly on purpose. Look at how much flack these players get when trying to compete. That would be amplified several times more if they were trying to lose. Some of these players are fighting to keep their jobs. If they played poorly on purpose, they could jeopardize their careers. Canucks are trying to create an atmosphere where hard work is rewarded. Tanking intentionally would make it very difficult to weed out the slackers.

If we hired less than optimal players to tank by design rather by play, then when we finally got top players, we would have bad role players and mentors. That would also hurt us in the long run. We are not bad enough to get top picks and not good enough to be a true contender. I agree, that sucks!

It seems like the best(worst) we can hope for is to continue losing the 1 goal games and miss the Playoffs and get a decent draft position.                                                                                                                                                                                                         

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The Canucks are not expected to make th playoffs this year. The fact that JB put Virtanen, McCann and Hutton in the lineup is evidence of this. He chose to develop his youth over putting the playoffs as a priority.  The Canucks aren't a contender this year so making the playoffs is irrelevant. I'd rather us have an off year and make some moves at the deadline to make room for more youth moving forward. I'm looking forward to 3-5 years down the road when the Canucks will be contenders again. A few years down the road making the playoffs will be of importance because we will actually be able to Make a run for the cup. Expect a couple years of mediocrity before we start to compete and have a chance at doing anything. 

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If they miss the playoffs I'd like to think we trade some veterans for picks. Have to keep some, those that will protect and teach the kids how to play right, but we've got Shinkaruk and Gaunce who are NHL ready this season if not the next.

Either trade Shinkaruk or Gaunce, or trade some of Higgins, Dorsett, Prust, Vbrata or even Hansen for prospects/picks/defencemen.

I wouldn't mind going into next season with a lineup like this:

Sedin - Sedin - Hansen

Baertschi - Sutter - Burrows

Shinkaruk - McCann - Prust

Gaunce - Horvat - Virtanen

 

With those that are gone, acquire 1st rounders or ideally a top-4 RHD (or sign one through UFA). That's got to be our #1 priority.

Edler - Tanev

Hutton - RHD

Sbisa - UFA

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3 hours ago, Canucks1527 said:

The Canucks are not expected to make th playoffs this year. The fact that JB put Virtanen, McCann and Hutton in the lineup is evidence of this. He chose to develop his youth over putting the playoffs as a priority.  The Canucks aren't a contender this year so making the playoffs is irrelevant. I'd rather us have an off year and make some moves at the deadline to make room for more youth moving forward. I'm looking forward to 3-5 years down the road when the Canucks will be contenders again. A few years down the road making the playoffs will be of importance because we will actually be able to Make a run for the cup. Expect a couple years of mediocrity before we start to compete and have a chance at doing anything. 

Who else did Benning have to put in the lineup?

McCann beat Vey out for 4C, sending Gaunce down allowed us to keep Virtanen up otherwise he was CHL junior bound...same for McCann.

Hutton staying did not cause anyone to go, Weber is still here and playing due to injuries.

All that was said by keeping them was "get it together Vey"....and wake up sleepy November veteran's...

time to play for your trade deadline positions.

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4 hours ago, Canucks1527 said:

The Canucks are not expected to make th playoffs this year. The fact that JB put Virtanen, McCann and Hutton in the lineup is evidence of this. He chose to develop his youth over putting the playoffs as a priority.  The Canucks aren't a contender this year so making the playoffs is irrelevant. I'd rather us have an off year and make some moves at the deadline to make room for more youth moving forward. I'm looking forward to 3-5 years down the road when the Canucks will be contenders again. A few years down the road making the playoffs will be of importance because we will actually be able to Make a run for the cup. Expect a couple years of mediocrity before we start to compete and have a chance at doing anything. 

The other factor is how do the Sedins and Edler really feel about not making the playoffs the next couple of years when their services could be used to make runs for the Cups. It's not a lack of respect or loyalty, it's actually the out of respect and loyalty that the club would consider this, they have given so much to this city and team we all want to see those guys hoist a cup, if not with us with someone else. We can always sign them to retire them as Canucks. A happy ending for all...

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6 hours ago, Toews said:

Good post. I don't get the hostility towards the "tankers". Both sides want the same thing, they just want to take different paths towards that goal. Both approaches have their pros and cons. 

I think sometimes some of the Tank crowd portray the process as a recipe: Step 1: Tank; Step 2: Draft Top Pick; Step 3: Win Cup. All within a few years. But of course, there is no guarantee with any pick (many acknowledge this too). Likewsise, the timeframe is potentially a lot longer than some seem to think (and more than likely lafter the Sedins leave which was part of the strategy: have the Sedins around to help transition to the next generation). Personally, I think there a chance they waited too long to expect there to be much meaningful overlap.

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6 hours ago, RWMc1 said:

 

 

 

I think what some people here mean is that the team has already chosen its course of action. You may not like it, but constant complaining will not change things.

Tankers are asking highly competitive players to intentionally play poorly on purpose. Look at how much flack these players get when trying to compete. That would be amplified several times more if they were trying to lose. Some of these players are fighting to keep their jobs. If they played poorly on purpose, they could jeopardize their careers. Canucks are trying to create an atmosphere where hard work is rewarded. Tanking intentionally would make it very difficult to weed out the slackers.

If we hired less than optimal players to tank by design rather by play, then when we finally got top players, we would have bad role players and mentors. That would also hurt us in the long run. We are not bad enough to get top picks and not good enough to be a true contender. I agree, that sucks!

It seems like the best(worst) we can hope for is to continue losing the 1 goal games and miss the Playoffs and get a decent draft position.                                                                                                                                                                                                         

Actually nobody is suggesting that players intentionally throw games. This a sport where players are competing for pay cheques, it is not at all reasonable to suggest that anyone will play worse than their abilities.

What people actually mean by tanking is to trade away any and all players that will not be a part of future success. Of course there are exceptions like the Sedins but the point is you trade off what assets you can and get back as many picks and prospects in return. You can always sign a bunch of hardworking free agents and keep your top prospects out for as long as you can.

I am not advocating for this strategy, I just think there are merits to doing so.

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