Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

If the Canucks miss the Playoffs


captaincowbasher

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, Toews said:

Actually nobody is suggesting that players intentionally throw games. This a sport where players competing for pay cheques, it is not at all reasonable to suggest that anyone will play worse than their abilities.

What people actually mean by tanking is to trade away any and all players that will not be a part of future success. Of course there are exceptions like the Sedins but the point is you trade off what assets you can and get back as many picks and prospects in truth. You can always sign a bunch of hardworking free agents and keep your top prospects out for as long as you can.

I am not advocating for this strategy, I just think there are merits to doing so.

Very high risk though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Provost said:

We are going to be a fringe playoff team... either just making it or just missing it.  

We are going to do that while playing and developing a whack of our younger talent.

A youth movement AND winning... gee that sounds terrible.

You don't always have to draft your elite player by sucking badly and scoring a first overall pick in a year where they guy happens to be an elite talent, you can pick them up as a UFA.  You just need to have drafted some of your other players well to fill out the roster without all being expensive free agents.  As it stands we have darn solid 2nd and 3rd lines shaping up from our young talent.  McCann and Boeser have a shot at even being top line guys in their prime.  Add in an elite UFA forward and a #1 D, our roster starts to look pretty good.

When the Sedins retire or take a lower contract to be 2nd line players, we will have many millions of dollars freed up and can take a run at any of the top UFAs out there and offer max dollars.

But you can't build your team that way.  The thing with drafting your elite talent is that you get elite level play on an entry level deal and then a bridge deal too perhaps.

When you sign an elite UFA, you are paying market price or even higher.

Also, there won't be the loyalty involved that most often applies with a high draftee.  Notice that Sid, Ovechkin, are 10 years into their careers and still with the team that drafted them.

If you draft Ovechkin, you get him for several years at a bargain basement price.  If you get him as a UFA, you pay $10M a year and can barely flesh out a team around him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

But you can't build your team that way.  The thing with drafting your elite talent is that you get elite level play on an entry level deal and then a bridge deal too perhaps.

When you sign an elite UFA, you are paying market price or even higher.

Also, there won't be the loyalty involved that most often applies with a high draftee.  Notice that Sid, Ovechkin, are 10 years into their careers and still with the team that drafted them.

If you draft Ovechkin, you get him for several years at a bargain basement price.  If you get him as a UFA, you pay $10M a year and can barely flesh out a team around him.

Just not true....

You are ignoring the "you need to build the rest of your team through the draft and development" part of the post.  You can absolutely pay an elite top line UFA forward big bucks as long as you have the rest of your core and supporting cast in place and/or continued stream of younger guys on cheaper contracts.

You can't build a team SOLELY via UFAs... but you can certainly add a couple of top end pieces using that route. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Just not true....

You are ignoring the "you need to build the rest of your team through the draft and development" part of the post.  You can absolutely pay an elite top line UFA forward big bucks as long as you have the rest of your core and supporting cast in place and/or continued stream of younger guys on cheaper contracts.

You can't build a team SOLELY via UFAs... but you can certainly add a couple of top end pieces using that route. 

It's very rare that the centerpiece of a championship team was a UFA rather than drafted or traded for in a blockbuster deal.

Not even a UFA centerpiece surrounded by drafted talent on cheap contracts.

I don't know how far back I have to go to find a Stanley Cup winner where the star player was acquired through free agency.

I guess maybe Niedermayer in Anaheim in 2007 if he was to be considered the #1 player on the team.

And that might honestly be the only time in the last 50 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

It's very rare that the centerpiece of a championship team was a UFA rather than drafted or traded for in a blockbuster deal.

Not even a UFA centerpiece surrounded by drafted talent on cheap contracts.

I don't know how far back I have to go to find a Stanley Cup winner where the star player was acquired through free agency.

I guess maybe Niedermayer in Anaheim in 2007 if he was to be considered the #1 player on the team.

And that might honestly be the only time in the last 50 years.


Two years ago LA won with their three top playoff goal scorers and 3 of their top 4 playoff point producers as players they didn't draft (Carter, Williams, Gaborik).

I didn't have to go back very far.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Provost said:


Two years ago LA won with their three top playoff goal scorers and 3 of their top 4 playoff point producers as players they didn't draft (Carter, Williams, Gaborik).

I didn't have to go back very far.

 

You were talking about UFAs, not players that were traded for, and that was clearly specified in the discussion.

Also, LA's centerpiece is clearly either Jonathan Quick or Drew Doughty.

Also, I said the "centerpiece" of the team, which doesn't mean one of five or six top guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, FireGillis said:

Yup!  We all want a cup in the end.  The hostility comes from the anti tank crowd taking the moral high ground about not cheering for this team to lose.  In a vacuum, that would be correct, but in a world where tanking is rewarded, it's jut not the best option.  If the anti tank crowd could just look at this objectively and logically without any moral bias, then they would see that tanking for top picks gives us the best chance to become contenders in the future.

OK you seem to know what the recipe for success is.  So we are to get rid of say 21-22 players so we can draft 1 or 2 draft picks? So putting morality aside, how do we gamble on putting ALL of our faith in 1 or 2 players to Win? I guess the rest of the team does not matter then? SO who do we draft? A goalie? A #1 D man? How about a #1 center? Which one is it? 

Again since you are the expert on knowing how to build a winning team, what is wrong with this team right now? We are thin on defense we all know that. We are lacking secondary scoring with Vrbata sucking right now and Sutter injured. Yes Miller is getting old but he is still able to do his job, the same with the Sedins.

So, if you had unlimited cap space and could add players to make a winning team, what would you do? I am kind of curious to see what a championship team looks like.B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, FireGillis said:

Yup!  We all want a cup in the end.  The hostility comes from the anti tank crowd taking the moral high ground about not cheering for this team to lose.  In a vacuum, that would be correct, but in a world where tanking is rewarded, it's jut not the best option.  If the anti tank crowd could just look at this objectively and logically without any moral bias, then they would see that tanking for top picks gives us the best chance to become contenders in the future.

You are right on one key point: the league does reward tanking at the draft.  I don't know how that can be argued.  A team still needs a measure of good fortune too - do well in the lottery, and have elite players in that particular draft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well to say the least anything is possible with regard to a playoff berth in the Pacific Div, as long as team plays at least .500 which they are at .The pacific is akin to the old sweat hog div, but if the Coyotes an Ducks continue to surge it may be touch an go at end of the year to grab a berth.Home wins are important to play above .500 ,special teams need to play at expectations.an at .500 on the road maybe problematic down the stretch when points are tough. The Defense needs pick up its back end grit in the grind them out with the rest of the western Conference teams that goes for the whole team ,especially when we do not get benefit of the doubt on blatent calls for pp's .The league standard of letting other teams run roughshod over our star players, an has been ongoing for years under the Betman regime .Nothing we can do except be gritty an score when pp presents itself with earnest effort by star quality players.Goal tending is not a problem.Injury's are the other big factor as witnessed recient road trip three regulars out can create challenges for coaching staff to overcome.

It could happen that this group goes on major run deep into playoffs an flip a coin an be on outside looking in not tanking but just enough bad breaks an tough luck to miss.As it stands the Western Conference is the best in hockey right now an the cap has created alot of parity an tightness in playoff races.

This team competes an plays hard no matter what does not quite when they start but have had slow start issues an sustaining it deep into the third. This has cost games an suggests not enough talent? not enough buy into WD system? or a combination somewhere in the middle which is the reflection in the standings with alot of potential upside. the young guys are being brought along in their development alot of secondary scoring is dependant on them stepping up an performing to expectations at some point we should see this ,peaking at the right time is critical to good run .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Provost said:


Two years ago LA won with their three top playoff goal scorers and 3 of their top 4 playoff point producers as players they didn't draft (Carter, Williams, Gaborik).

I didn't have to go back very far.

 

Kings don't win any cups without their 2nd overall pick in drew doughty. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Winter Soldier said:

Doesn't change the fact that one or two top five picks is not good enough to bring your team the cup. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise.

No one said it was.  You need to draft your core pieces but still need good management and some luck on your side too.  I don't know why the anti tankers try to strawman this into only having a team of draft picks. You still need to build around them through trades/Ufa etc. 

This shouldn't be that hard for people to understand. We're an example of it already.  We never won a cup but came within a game. We were built around our 2nd/3rd overall picks in the Sedins.  The anti tankers always seem to forget where the Sedins were drafted. Where would this team be for the last decade without the Sedins? 

  They're coming to the end of their careers so we need to draft our next Sedins that will set us up for long term success.   The Sedins are also an example of how you need draft luck too. That was an incredibly weak draft and the Sedins are by far the best players to come out of that draft in the first round. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/11/2015, 09:44:21, HC20.0 said:

The Sedin's signed their last contract with the intention of it being their last in the NHL period, and Benning's gone on record of saying that they will retire here. So they're not getting moved. If the play outside of Vancouver, it's going to be in Sweden. They'll be Canucks the whole way through. 

There will be a contract extension. They will be 37 at the end of these contracts, they will probably sign a 2 year after this one. After that they will probably take it year by year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...