Warhippy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 hour ago, falcon45ca said: Look, I don't disagree with you in principal on any of those points. All I'm saying is that comparing what the Gov't of Canada has done to what Jihadists are doing now is an overstatement, & if you don't believe me then try this little exercise: instead of residential schools, the Gov't of Canada beheaded the children they abducted. Instead of relocating a band, they were executed and put in mass graves. Instead of signing treaties that were not honoured, the gov't sent in suicide bombers. Paints a bit of a different picture, wouldn't you say? I'm not saying one is right & one is wrong, I'm saying they're both horrible, but one is a lot more horrible than the other. I...have no words for how ignorant this is. The end result is death. The end result is the loss of identity and culture. Your attempt to draw a parallel between what a government and religion did to an ENTIRE countries indigenous population vs what a handful of zealots are doing to random targets and those of other denominations of faith is appalling. Let me break this down to you privileged white person safe in your home who has never suffered a day in your life (I can make this claim based on your closing statement) Until you are beaten by your father who has had to drink himself to sleep due to the damages inflicted on him in a residential school while crying about his brother who was starved to death in the same school. Until entire generations of boys and girls are ripped from their homes in your world and then beaten, starved, molested raped and tortured by "their betters" You don't get to make statements like "one is a lot more horrible than the other" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, taxi said: I think you underestimate how brutal the world was about 100+ years ago. What's going on with ISIS was fairly common place. Canada, which was founded by colonial powers, was far from a saint. so judging canada's actions from a brutal, colonial time and comparing it to the current world is fair... ok. fact is, even in the brutal old days, ISIS would be considered barbaric. there is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: There's never a shortage of victims who wish to re-visit their history in an effort to gain attention and/or restitution. I have to wonder why these people would wish to be citizens of a country that has behaved in a manner so abhorrent as t justify comparisons to ISIS....a Calaphate that would surely dispose of them in some creative fashion for speaking out against it. I feel it really shows how little they appreciate what Canada is and how little they understand of the horrors being undertaken by ISIS. Fear mongering much? Do you honestly believe they're capable of controlling a non-middle eastern country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, drummer4now said: Heck even 70 odd years ago was still brutal.. with WW2 It is still brutal. It is mostly an illusion that humanity has changed that much. There are and continue to be regulator atrocities perpetrated by humans on other humans (not to mention animals and the planet). Rwanda, Syria, Ukraine, Congo, etc. Look what happened in New Orleans within a couple days...anarchy. Humans may have changed their tactics but we are never far from the barbarism of our past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Just now, Edlerberry said: so judging canada's actions from a brutal, colonial time and comparing it to the current world is fair... ok. fact is, even in the brutal old days, ISIS would be considered barbaric. there is no comparison. No one said that Canada is like ISIS now. People just said that Canada has a history of brutal treatment towards Indigenous people that rivals what ISIS is currently doing. No one is justifying ISIS either. People are held to a higher standard than they were 100 years ago. However, as Canadians we should be aware of the historical and continued suffering of our indigenous people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, drummer4now said: Fear mongering much? Do you honestly believe they're capable of controlling a non-middle eastern country? I was just trying to keep with the hyperbole of those comparing Canada to ISIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 hour ago, falcon45ca said: Really? Canada beheaded people who resisted them? Executed them? Buried them in mass graves? Please, I'd like some sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Honest answer? (not what it means to me...) My grandfather was a World War one refugee. Orphaned from a part of the Ukraine which is now Poland to Russia. Just young enough not to be forced to the front by the Russians. Instead worked war camps. And made his way to Poland after the war to find work. To get away. And made his way to Canada as a stowaway from Gdansk on a boat. I think he thought he was going to Germany. It does not matter but was just fortunate. People of every religion fled, were killed and helped each other survive. He owed his life to many. Its these he remembered. Anyone who came in peace was always welcome. He would share any food he had. I am a Canadian because of my grandfather. And I don't and wont judge many who want to be here! As crazy as that story is, my Gido came to this country under similar circumstances. Can you imagine the ballz these old boys had? These guys were animals. They didn't have no volunteers ready and waiting for them to arrive with a warm meal and bed prepared. They were loaded on rail cars and dumped off in the middle of Saskatchewan. They built houses out of whatever they could find, cleared farmland and endured -50 for 6 months while having a kid every year for the next 10 years. There aren't people that tough on this planet anymore period. I'm proud I descended from such a hard working group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thema Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Well this thread went sideways in a hurry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edlerberry Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 canada is what it is now. it is not made up of a majority of genocidal colonialists. It's made of a collection of cultures, ideas, and ways of life. Canada, compared to THE WORLD AS IT IS NOW, has some of the most tolerant policies towards all people in the world, along with freedoms AND the rule of law to keep things safe. It's not without faults, but COMPARED TO THE WORLD TODAY, it's done a good job being a refuge of glory and winning. south canada could learn a thing or two... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 8 minutes ago, taxi said: Your comment shows how little you appreciate the history of the indigenous people of Canada. I actually worked with a first nations group for many years. AS with all societies, there were those who acknowledged their history but were working to put it behind them and there were those that chose to re-live it over and over, constantly seeking retribution. As I said, almost every civilization has a story similar to what happened in Canada (and continues to happen). I don't condone it but see the danger in trying to hold current generations hostage over history perpetrated by others in a different time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 i was born in canada (vancouver), but i am of the world....i come from kings and queens of england, scotland, wales, france, spain, portugal, norway, denmark, austria, germany and the ukraine....and of course north american native tribes, cree, sauteaux, ojibwa, blackfoot, blood, kootenae and souix....and also druid kings... have they ordered people to be put to death...all of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Alright falcon45 Your asking for proof of mass graves and more from residential schools? Look yourself. No, too lazy? Here. educate yourself Mass graves: http://www.manataka.org/page1494.html http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/brenda-norrell/2008/04/mass-graves-revealed-indian-children-canadian-schools http://nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/location_of_mass_graves_of_resid.htm Estimated deaths of residential schools: http://globalnews.ca/news/2027587/deaths-at-canadas-indian-residential-schools-need-more-study-commission/ http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstitution/index.php?p=4 Total number of affected children in residential schools: http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/home/government-policy/the-residential-school-system.html Sexual abuse and torture at residential schools: http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/home/government-policy/the-residential-school-system.html http://www.legacyofhope.ca/about-residential-schools/conditions-mistreatment Now. Falcon45, before you attempt to make ANY claim about this horrific legacy left upon the first nations of Canada by the government of Canada, do your best to ensure you don't look like a complete idiot. Google is your friend and this is common teaching in most schools teaching history, social studies and canadian culture. The figures show over 150,000 children ripped from their homes over 40 years, beaten, tortured, molested, starved, murdered, their culture stripped from them indoctrination in a religion not their own all so the government could hold them hostage in order to ensure better land rights for mineral wealth and the subservience of an entire race of indigenous people. If you want to make statements demanding proof, make sure you're not too lazy to simply google two words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 3 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: I actually worked with a first nations group for many years. AS with all societies, there were those who acknowledged their history but were working to put it behind them and there were those that chose to re-live it over and over, constantly seeking retribution. As I said, almost every civilization has a story similar to what happened in Canada (and continues to happen). I don't condone it but see the danger in trying to hold current generations hostage over history perpetrated by others in a different time. I apologize then...I didn't realize that hearing about the history indigenous people was such a burden on you. There are people growing up today who are dealing with the fallout of the residential school system, but I wouldn't want to "hold you hostage" by discussing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, taxi said: I apologize then...I didn't realize that hearing about the history indigenous people was such a burden on you. There are people growing up today who are dealing with the fallout of the residential school system, but I wouldn't want to "hold you hostage" by discussing that. I appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 28 minutes ago, taxi said: The residential schools were responsible for the deaths of about 50,000 children, many of whom were buried in mass graves: http://itccs.org/mass-graves-of-children-in-canada-documented-evidence/ On top of that, you had the actual military conflict and colonization of the land, which had previously been home to indigenous people. Let's take a second & read that article & realize that the Church of England and Canada are not the same thing, & given Canada's political power internationally at the time, Canada wasn't even a sovereign nation, the government were hardly calling the shots at those schools. I'm not trying to defend anything the gov't has done in regards to Native peoples during Canada's history, but put things in perspective when people are getting their goddamn heads cut off for having a different religion, or mowed down with machine gun fire for sipping coffee. If you think they're one & the same, there's probably nothing I can say to change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm Canadian because as a Metis, I apologize to myself daily for stealing my land. The real reason I'm Canadian, besides having Native blood, is because my Paternal Great Grandparents were born Canadians. I also like to think that I embody the stereotypical Canadian traits, such as being overly nice, passionate about Hockey, I love Maple Syrup and Candied Salmon, I apologize by default, and I say "thank-you" when someone thanks me. You know the good stuff. As usual the topic gets bastardized by rhetoric about smallpox, colonialism and terrorism in the Mid East. I especially like the comparison to suicide bombers, great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, Chalky said: I'm Canadian because as a Metis, I apologize to myself daily for stealing my land. The real reason I'm Canadian, besides having Native blood, is because my Paternal Great Grandparents were born Canadians. I also like to think that I embody the stereotypical Canadian traits, such as being overly nice, passionate about Hockey, I love Maple Syrup and Candied Salmon, I apologize by default, and I say "thank-you" when someone thanks me. You know the good stuff. As usual the topic gets bastardized by rhetoric about smallpox, colonialism and terrorism in the Mid East. I especially like the comparison to suicide bombers, great job! Can you show where someone made that comparison? Contrary to popular belief they (ISIS) are not all suicide bombers, but a system of deranged barbaric killers who operate in every facet of society.. Like they have doctors, engineers, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugor Hill Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm Canadian because I choose to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, drummer4now said: Can you show where someone made that comparison? Scroll up, it's in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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