Chalky Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, drummer4now said: 3 hours ago, X-PatLostInEdm said: Actually, I don't think it is an overstatement. The settlers of the day may not have used suicide bombers, but we certainly did use smallpox as a weapon and did try to eradicate the first nation's food supplies (bison). Despicable acts, but hardly unique. History is replete with populations world-wide trying to exterminate each other. Ask any neanderthal. Oh, wait... you can't. We did a particularly good job there. Even took some of their DNA (unless you're African) So, it's what we ALL are. And if you think your particular group is different, you're setting yourself up for a fall. 5 minutes ago, drummer4now said: Can you show where someone made that comparison? Contrary to popular belief they (ISIS) are not all suicide bombers, but a system of deranged barbaric killers who operate in every facet of society.. Like they have doctors, engineers, etc.. You're not likely to educate me on ISIS, I'm a media junkie and I keep well informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 6 hours ago, ice orca said: Actually the country was founded on a land grab by greed and systematic destruction of the indigenous people who were here for hundreds of years prior. Our fore fathers were as brutal as the extremist's we hate today. This only proves that all races and religions commit acts of violence and aggression, and that certain people are hypocrites to not want others to come to this land despite knowing what their ancestors did to the Natives of Canada. The world belongs to all its inhabitants, and while we have a duty of care to protect people from violence within the country, I believe we also have a duty to help other desperate people in need. Like Trudeau said, we grow stronger because of our differences, not despite them. If you have to judge, judge someone on their individual level of character. Shutting down our borders to those in need will only reinforce our fears and prejudices, opening our doors will allow us to overcome whatever fears we have and grow stronger and more tolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMelvin Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 My People had taken in the most likely first refugees of our age....(LOTRs ref) lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 6 hours ago, ice orca said: Actually the country was founded on a land grab by greed and systematic destruction of the indigenous people who were here for hundreds of years prior. Our fore fathers were as brutal as the extremist's we hate today. 4 hours ago, X-PatLostInEdm said: Actually, I don't think it is an overstatement. The settlers of the day may not have used suicide bombers, but we certainly did use smallpox as a weapon and did try to eradicate the first nation's food supplies (bison). Despicable acts, but hardly unique. History is replete with populations world-wide trying to exterminate each other. Ask any neanderthal. Oh, wait... you can't. We did a particularly good job there. Even took some of their DNA (unless you're African) So, it's what we ALL are. And if you think your particular group is different, you're setting yourself up for a fall. 1 hour ago, falcon45ca said: Look, I don't disagree with you in principal on any of those points. All I'm saying is that comparing what the Gov't of Canada has done to what Jihadists are doing now is an overstatement, & if you don't believe me then try this little exercise: instead of residential schools, the Gov't of Canada beheaded the children they abducted. Instead of relocating a band, they were executed and put in mass graves. Instead of signing treaties that were not honoured, the gov't sent in suicide bombers. Paints a bit of a different picture, wouldn't you say? I'm not saying one is right & one is wrong, I'm saying they're both horrible, but one is a lot more horrible than the other. There is only one answer to these questions and their spin off's. Its important to recognize that the past crimes of our history do not justify repeating them. Not in a different form. Not in a different place by a different culture. There have been many instances where we should both recoil, but also seek to learn from now. The Holocaust, Stalin, ethnic cleansing in the former Czech republic, Genghis Khan. In a twist, the absolution of Apartheid also returned to the surface centuries old tribal warfare among S African tribes. Colonization of the New World was no different. Not in Canada with how we treated native peoples, nor the Orient, India or many other places. Isis is topical. This is thirst for power and even carnal privilege is criminal behaviour not religion. As much as the concept of a religion is badly bastardized to justify it. Religion has been used to justify wars since the dawn of time. The religion is not the problem, the criminal who distorts it to his will is. Muslims should be welcome in our country, in our houses, at our tables. Refugee's of all cultures need to be considered. Terrorists should not. Of course its a hard task to find where they hide among. But a worthwhile cause. Its important to also recognize, make amends where possible the errors of past. Politicians who made the decisions that brutalized our own aboriginal peoples should be identified by history. Just as we need to not to pretend concentration camps did not exist. Repartition will remain a problem forever. My own hope is that Canada can be a place it takes place peacefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gforce31 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm Canadian because my parents didn't want their two kids growing up in Iran during the Iran-Iraq war. They wanted me to have opportunities to be whatever I wanted to be. Canada provided me with this and more. I became a citizen back in '99. I'd lay my life down for Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-PatLostInEdm Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 38 minutes ago, Chalky said: You're not likely to educate me on ISIS, I'm a media junkie and I keep well informed. The only thing I said about suicide bombers is that they weren't used. I never mentioned ISIS at all. That was previous poster's strawman. The smallpox thing is documented. If fact, it's not the only place the tactic was used. Look it up. The bison slaughter is obvious. Glad you had a good laugh, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 hour ago, LaBamba said: As crazy as that story is, my Gido came to this country under similar circumstances. Can you imagine the ballz these old boys had? These guys were animals. They didn't have no volunteers ready and waiting for them to arrive with a warm meal and bed prepared. They were loaded on rail cars and dumped off in the middle of Saskatchewan. They built houses out of whatever they could find, cleared farmland and endured -50 for 6 months while having a kid every year for the next 10 years. There aren't people that tough on this planet anymore period. I'm proud I descended from such a hard working group of people. Theses stories are, your families and mine, exactly the same. I edited out my own frozen prairie farm in the depression portion of the story, Thinking I was sharing too much. Exactly the same... All that to escape war. Find a place to live after being kicked out of their own historical lands. Persecuted by Lenin, then Stalin depending on when they left. Tough bastards. My own Gido was barely 5'3'' and 110 lbs. Pushed his plow with an ox, a donkey, a horse from the neighbour. Whatever he could find to cut the frozen earth. Sang badly to his balalaika after prayers at the end of each day. Happy to have a bowl of borscht till the day he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 7 hours ago, Warhippy said: I...have no words for how ignorant this is. The end result is death. The end result is the loss of identity and culture. Your attempt to draw a parallel between what a government and religion did to an ENTIRE countries indigenous population vs what a handful of zealots are doing to random targets and those of other denominations of faith is appalling. Let me break this down to you privileged white person safe in your home who has never suffered a day in your life (I can make this claim based on your closing statement) Until you are beaten by your father who has had to drink himself to sleep due to the damages inflicted on him in a residential school while crying about his brother who was starved to death in the same school. Until entire generations of boys and girls are ripped from their homes in your world and then beaten, starved, molested raped and tortured by "their betters" You don't get to make statements like "one is a lot more horrible than the other" Oh I see, there's no way I could know how bad life can be because nothing bad has ever happened to me. You don't know me, you don't know what I've been through, & I know for a fact I don't know what you've been through...but I never made any such claims. Let me break this down for you - you have no idea what others have been through until you've talked to them, gotten to know them, heard their stories. Nobody brought up race but you. Oh, & from the perspective of someone who has been beaten, yeah I'll take a childhood of abuse over getting my head cut off. I do get to make that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoKnows Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 12 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said: i call cigarettes 'darts' who doesn't? "Hey Bill, you hacking more greasy darts?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 11 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Honest answer? (not what it means to me...) My grandfather was a World War one refugee. Orphaned from a part of the Ukraine which is now Poland to Russia. Just young enough not to be forced to the front by the Russians. Instead worked war camps. And made his way to Poland after the war to find work. To get away. And made his way to Canada as a stowaway from Gdansk on a boat. I think he thought he was going to Germany. It does not matter but was just fortunate. People of every religion fled, were killed and helped each other survive. He owed his life to many. Its these he remembered. Anyone who came in peace was always welcome. He would share any food he had. I am a Canadian because of my grandfather. And I don't and wont judge many who want to be here! Similar story on my end Surfer. My grandparents from Ukraine/Poland ( as you know those borders had been dancing back n forth for decades) some how ended up in Germany during WW2. Gramps could speak Uke/Polish/English/German and Russian so Dido managed to become an MP for the Americans towards the end of the war, while also being a tailor for German officers in Stuttgart lol. He traded a few secrets to get his wife and daughter to Ellis Island and were in Syracuse for a bit, then used his MP status to get out of Syracuse to Alberta. I have countless stories of heroism and despair in my own family let alone from many families and friends. Without a doubt many here can say the same. My grandpa is why I am Canadian. He knew this was the country to finally call home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickVega Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Even though I was born in Canada, back three generations on both sides, I haven't thought of myself as a Canadian for most of my adult life. I consider myself British Columbian, first and foremost. Actually, in my travels I have found from a values and mindset point of view I identify closer to people in the Yukon, Alaska, Washington, and Oregon then I do with people on the other side of the Rockies. I guess it's a west coast thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 11 minutes ago, X-PatLostInEdm said: The only thing I said about suicide bombers is that they weren't used. I never mentioned ISIS at all. That was previous poster's strawman. The smallpox thing is documented. If fact, it's not the only place the tactic was used. Look it up. The bison slaughter is obvious. Glad you had a good laugh, though. Hey man, I was just showing where the comparison was made, I'm not judging you or your opinion, I'm not sure why Drummer singled my comment out, I was trying to keep it light. I just think it is too convenient to create an argument working from present time backwards to analyze specific micro-atrocities while ignoring the macro picture. There are a lot of atrocities world wide, and a long history of man kind changing borders and "stealing" land. This is no different. To me, Canadian is a value, not an ethnicity, but that's my opinion. The atrocities of the Spanish explorers, English explorers or Canadian governmental residential schools did not happen contemporaneously. There is not one single atrocity or one single perpetrator of atrocities. In the immortal words of Todd Bertuzzi, it is what it is, we can only try to do the right things now. One thing is certain, applying contemporary attitudes, beliefs and reactions to historical events will never result in an accurate explanation of what occurred. Smallpox on the West Coast destroyed a lot of my family heritage and culture. I'm not entirely convinced it was biological warfare in this case. From what I've read, it likely came from the San Francisco outbreak during the gold rush, whether it was designed as bio-warfare is still up for debate...with someone else, because I'm done with that one, there is no one left to hold accountable. No disrespect to your opinion....or Drummers for that matter. Let's just all be Canadian about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 hours ago, falcon45ca said: Really? Canada beheaded people who resisted them? Executed them? Buried them in mass graves? Please, I'd like some sources. l No beheadings but internment camps right here on Canadian soil. There is a Ukrainian interment camp just west of Calgary..just sayin. The Chinese def have a beef with the way they were treated when they came. Hippy is bang on in his statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 minutes ago, Chalky said: Hey man, I was just showing where the comparison was made, I'm not judging you or your opinion, I'm not sure why Drummer singled my comment out, I was trying to keep it light. I just think it is too convenient to create an argument working from present time backwards to analyze specific micro-atrocities while ignoring the macro picture. There are a lot of atrocities world wide, and a long history of man kind changing borders and "stealing" land. This is no different. To me, Canadian is a value, not an ethnicity, but that's my opinion. The atrocities of the Spanish explorers, English explorers or Canadian governmental residential schools did not happen contemporaneously. There is not one single atrocity or one single perpetrator of atrocities. In the immortal words of Todd Bertuzzi, it is what it is, we can only try to do the right things now. One thing is certain, applying contemporary attitudes, beliefs and reactions to historical events will never result in an accurate explanation of what occurred. Smallpox on the West Coast destroyed a lot of my family heritage and culture. I'm not entirely convinced it was biological warfare in this case. From what I've read, it likely came from the San Francisco outbreak during the gold rush, whether it was designed as bio-warfare is still up for debate...with someone else, because I'm done with that one, there is no one left to hold accountable. No disrespect to your opinion....or Drummers for that matter. Let's just all be Canadian about it. What a great post ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHoneyBadger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 13 hours ago, Darkstar said: Because I was born here. Same, deep down I think I am Russian though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHoneyBadger Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 19 minutes ago, Mr.DirtyDangles said: No beheadings but internment camps right here on Canadian soil. There is a Ukrainian interment camp just west of Calgary..just sayin. The Chinese def have a beef with the way they were treated when they came. Hippy is bang on in his statement. There were concentration camps on the island, of Germans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 53 minutes ago, falcon45ca said: Oh I see, there's no way I could know how bad life can be because nothing bad has ever happened to me. You don't know me, you don't know what I've been through, & I know for a fact I don't know what you've been through...but I never made any such claims. Let me break this down for you, you assumptive little twat. Get bent. You have no idea what others have been through until you've talked to them, gotten to know them, heard their stories. Nobody brought up race but you, so take your race baiting card & stick it where it belongs. Oh, & from the perspective of someone who has been beaten, yeah I'll take a childhood of abuse over getting my head cut off. I do get to make that statement. No. You don't As someone who lived through the excesses of that era you don't. As someone of first nations blood listening to you chime in and try to compare the issues with terrorism and the issues of cultural genocide is laughable. I have also reported your comment. I like that you think you're important enough to make those statements and then insult me while showing you literally have less than 0 credibility in regards to what you're talking about. I will tell you this though, when you dismiss something that is as culturally significant to this country as the residential school system, make outlandish comparisons and even more ridiculous claims while demanding proof, showing you're too lazy to do that yourself I Do get to judge you. I DO get to laugh at you and I DO get to put you on blast cupcake. Now, off to my ignore list you go. But word of advice, next time you want to chime in like you're an expert on something, at least have the decency to do the bare minimum of research...even wikipedia might have saved you in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 37 minutes ago, Mr.DirtyDangles said: No beheadings but internment camps right here on Canadian soil. There is a Ukrainian interment camp just west of Calgary..just sayin. The Chinese def have a beef with the way they were treated when they came. Hippy is bang on in his statement. Isn't it weird to say that? It never happens. I'm frightened. I am Canadian because I apologize a lot and I am sorry this frightens me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Isn't it weird to say that? It never happens. I'm frightened. I am Canadian because I apologize a lot and I am sorry this frightens me Not weird at all Hip. Our history may not be bloody but it is definitely not angelic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer4now Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 hours ago, LaBamba said: As crazy as that story is, my Gido came to this country under similar circumstances. Can you imagine the ballz these old boys had? These guys were animals. They didn't have no volunteers ready and waiting for them to arrive with a warm meal and bed prepared. They were loaded on rail cars and dumped off in the middle of Saskatchewan. They built houses out of whatever they could find, cleared farmland and endured -50 for 6 months while having a kid every year for the next 10 years. There aren't people that tough on this planet anymore period. I'm proud I descended from such a hard working group of people. If really you think about nearly all people before and after WW2 were tough as nails.. it really started going downhill during the 60's and beyond. Most people nowadays are ungrateful and take things for granted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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