[Report] Montreal is "all in" looking to "go for it", want to add a forward

[Rush17]

I can almost see Hamhuis in a Canadians jersey hoisting the cup.  Crazy thought.  Be a good addition to their bottom pairing.  Wish we could trade him and re-sign him.  But we have some youngsters almost ready for a promotion.  Be curious to see.  Keeping hammer be nice but only if it makes sense.  I think were probably going to transition though.  Maybe make a run at big buf in the off season.

[Boudrias]

While I consider any player tradable it would be a sad day to see Alex Burrows traded.  Rather he mentor the rookies than a Vrbata or Higgins. That said it would be a real kick to see him get a serious CUP opportunity in his home town.  

[canucklehead44]

I would be a bit surprised if they needed Hamhuis, but if they are going all-in...

Subban Markov - elite OFD
Petry Beaulieau - Both skate well and can defend, very solid 3/4
Emelin Gilbert - Emelin has been playing better, Gilbert is serviceable albeit overpaid.

Depth is kinda lacking, Tinordi is not ready to jump in as a regular on this squad and Pateryn is alright, but not very proven. If the Canucks continue "middle of the road", and aren't bad enough to tank but not guaranteed a playoff spot, I wouldn't mind a deal like this:

To Vancouver
Gilbert
Tinordi 
1st round pick

To Montreal 
Hamhuis
Prust + 6th round (or 3rd round pick)
 

Gilbert has little value, maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick, but fills out a hole left by Hamhuis. Tinordi is still an intriguing prospect, and this deal also earns us a 1st round pick. 

Now another interesting piece is Brandon Prust. It would be worth having a conversation with him on whether he will re-sign in Vancouver. It is pretty well documented that his wife wasn't happy about leaving Montreal, so he could also be sent back.

Based the value off the Coburn deal. I'd say Hamhuis is more reliable, albeit is an impending UFA. Gilbert = 3rd round pick, Gudas = Tinordi, 1st = 1st. Count in that Hamhuis > Coburn, plus Prust or 3rd round pick to balance off the year left on his contract. 

[Rush17]

4 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

I would be a bit surprised if they needed Hamhuis, but if they are going all-in...

Subban Markov - elite OFD
Petry Beaulieau - Both skate well and can defend, very solid 3/4
Emelin Gilbert - Emelin has been playing better, Gilbert is serviceable albeit overpaid.

Depth is kinda lacking, Tinordi is not ready to jump in as a regular on this squad and Pateryn is alright, but not very proven. If the Canucks continue "middle of the road", and aren't bad enough to tank but not guaranteed a playoff spot, I wouldn't mind a deal like this:

To Vancouver
Gilbert
Tinordi 
1st round pick

To Montreal 
Hamhuis
Prust + 6th round (or 3rd round pick)
 

Gilbert has little value, maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick, but fills out a hole left by Hamhuis. Tinordi is still an intriguing prospect, and this deal also earns us a 1st round pick. 

Now another interesting piece is Brandon Prust. It would be worth having a conversation with him on whether he will re-sign in Vancouver. It is pretty well documented that his wife wasn't happy about leaving Montreal, so he could also be sent back.

Based the value off the Coburn deal. I'd say Hamhuis is more reliable, albeit is an impending UFA. Gilbert = 3rd round pick, Gudas = Tinordi, 1st = 1st. Count in that Hamhuis > Coburn, plus Prust or 3rd round pick to balance off the year left on his contract. 

but... but.... i like prust!!!  the team actually competes when hes in the lineup.  I hope we can re-sign him.  I would almost take the risk of losing him for nothing if we had a chance to bringing him back.  He's such a valuable piece like sutter.  love me some prusty!  Dorsett was flying last game too.  Hope that inspires Jake to do the same.  He's got that extra gear he just rarely uses it when hes playing with bottom 6 players.

[Rush17]

My question. is could this be a bigger deal including Baertschi?  So instead of just getting parts and prospects the team deals off Vrbata, Hamhuis, and Baertschi for a significant player, a prospect, and a pick?

 

If coach green is coming up next year then we should keep Baer but if willie is going to only play him 9 mins a game.  Maybe we should package him if hes going to be around a while.  Baer won't want to re-sign after his 2 year deal if he's getting shafted.  Baertschi is a player who needs to feel as if the game is on his stick.  He needs to be counted on with a lot of in game pressure to be super successful.  He looked energized and eager when his line drew a penalty.  He was on the ice for 15-20 seconds did a fancy spin to get in position.  A penality is called then he goes and sits on the bench the entire powerplay.  He needs to be counted on. he needs the pressure. he needs consistant linemates and opportunities.  (didnt notice him much after that. probably felt deflated).  He has a large ego and he strives when its gametime and hes a key player.  Feed his ego give him a chance to be an impact player.  Willie is giving him the opposite of what he needs!

 

Yes hes been in the top 6 but the line were in a garborator.  Stick him with Sutter when he gets back or slide him on the line of McCann and Verbie and see what shakes.

 

Sorry for the long post.  Got a little  carried away.

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, Rush17 said:

My question. is could this be a bigger deal including Baertschi?  So instead of just getting parts and prospects the team deals off Vrbata, Hamhuis, and Baertschi for a significant player, a prospect, and a pick?

 

If coach green is coming up next year then we should keep Baer but if willie is going to only play him 9 mins a game.  Maybe we should package him if hes going to be around a while.  Baer won't want to re-sign after his 2 year deal if he's getting shafted.  Baertschi is a player who needs to feel as if the game is on his stick.  He needs to be counted on with a lot of in game pressure to be super successful.  He looked energized and eager when his line drew a penalty.  He was on the ice for 15-20 seconds did a fancy spin to get in position.  A penality is called then he goes and sits on the bench the entire powerplay.  He needs to be counted on. he needs the pressure. he needs consistant linemates and opportunities.  (didnt notice him much after that. probably felt deflated).  He has a large ego and he strives when its gametime and hes a key player.  Feed his ego give him a chance to be an impact player.  Willie is giving him the opposite of what he needs!

 

Yes hes been in the top 6 but the line were in a garborator.  Stick him with Sutter when he gets back or slide him on the line of McCann and Verbie and see what shakes.

 

Sorry for the long post.  Got a little  carried away.

Baertschi has little value as a piece in a trade.  A player who hasn't proven that he can be a regular in the NHL who cost the Canucks a 2nd, hasn't shown that he is worth that 2nd so he is worth less (probably equivalent to a 3rd or 4th).   He has more value to the Canucks as a Canuck at this point. They're going to develop him and like Vey, is going to get at least a year.  Frankly, if things went according to plan, Vey would be the Canucks 4C right now.  Nobody planned for McCann to make the team.  That was a nice surprise.

As for Coach Green.  That's a giant If.  There has been nothing from anybody with any credibility on this.  It is pure fantasy from various impatient CDC members who have wet their pants over a rough patch in a transition year.  No surprise there.  Don't worry there will be other rough patches.

[Outsiders]

Vrabta 50% retained ( 2.5 MILL ) For Juulson

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Outsiders said:

Vrabta 50% retained ( 2.5 MILL ) For Juulson

Okay, now, I'm no expert at trades, but I'm pretty sure that's wishful thinking on our part. lol

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Okay, now, I'm no expert at trades, but I'm pretty sure that's wishful thinking on our part. lol

I think they will push Tinordi.  From what I'm reading about Juulsen, he would be a steal.  However does not ALL IN mean they are willing to take a huge risk to win the Cup?  Maybe getting this guy for Vrby at the TDL is not beyond possible?

is lol (lots of luck) meant to be insulting, because it often seems to convey a negative tone, when combined with a contrarian post?  

[The Lock]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think they will push Tinordi.  From what I'm reading about Juulsen, he would be a steal.  However does not ALL IN mean they are willing to take a huge risk to win the Cup?  Maybe getting this guy for Vrby at the TDL is not beyond possible?

is lol (lots of luck) meant to be insulting, because it often seems to convey a negative tone, when combined with a contrarian post?  

I think all we have to do is look back to last year when New York was "all in" and traded for Yandle. They did give up Duclair in that trade; however, there's a major factor: Vrbata is not Yandle.

Yandle was a 28 year old defenseman at that time going through is prime. Vrbata is 34 and not in his prime. Vrbata is not going to have the trade value of Yandle. In fact, it's unlikely he'd even be close to the same value. Duclair, from how people describe Juulsen on these boards, would have been similar value to what Juulsen is now.

So, even historically looking at other deadline trades that have taken place, Juulsen does not equal a Vrbata. While Vrbata could have some value to Montreal, Montreal's not stupid either.

Let's put things into perspective. If Montreal offered us Markov on defense for Brock Boeser, would you take the deal? Markov's a good defender and we need defense, right?

[DownUndaCanuck]

Burrows?

Vbrata and Hamhuis for a 1st + young defenceman would be lovely.

[combover]

There looking to add a d-man or forward or both . Wow Elliot super insightful is your internet handle Eklund. Friedman  has become just another hack since he got the big bucks from Rogers it went straight to his head/ego. 

Captian obvious would like to thank Elliot for his contribution. 

And he has the worst profile in all of TV. Deformed puppet 

[Canucks Curse]

On 2015-11-27, 5:20:18, Ghostsof1915 said:

Usually when you go "all in" means you usually trade picks or prospects to get impact players for now. 

Gillis said they went "all in" in 2013 when they tried to get clarkson and clowe but he was just offering 2nd and 3rd rounders.

Juulsen in a trade for staal or johansen would be a secondary piece. like

Johansen for Galenchuck + Juulsen + 1st

whereas Vrbata +Grenier + Jensen for Juulsen and 2nd would be a trade where Montreal gains youth and veteran players

Or if they really wanted to go 'all in' without making a trade like I mentioned above, Vrbata+ Burrows/Hansen + Jensen/Grenier (max cap retained by Vancouver) for Juulsen + 1st + cap dump.

[Alflives]

5 hours ago, The Lock said:

I think all we have to do is look back to last year when New York was "all in" and traded for Yandle. They did give up Duclair in that trade; however, there's a major factor: Vrbata is not Yandle.

Yandle was a 28 year old defenseman at that time going through is prime. Vrbata is 34 and not in his prime. Vrbata is not going to have the trade value of Yandle. In fact, it's unlikely he'd even be close to the same value. Duclair, from how people describe Juulsen on these boards, would have been similar value to what Juulsen is now.

So, even historically looking at other deadline trades that have taken place, Juulsen does not equal a Vrbata. While Vrbata could have some value to Montreal, Montreal's not stupid either.

Let's put things into perspective. If Montreal offered us Markov on defense for Brock Boeser, would you take the deal? Markov's a good defender and we need defense, right?

But we're not all in, and that was the point of the trade conceptually.  The Habs might give up some of their future to go for a Cup now.  I wouldn't do it if I were them either, but?

[The Lock]

Just now, Alflives said:

But we're not all in, and that was the point of the trade conceptually.  The Habs might give up some of their future to go for a Cup now.  I wouldn't do it if I were them either, but?

I'm just saying in theory if we were all in. I'm giving a "flip" example I guess you could say of what a trade like this might sound like to them.

It's why I'm not "sold" on us being able to get Juulsen for Vrbata.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I'm just saying in theory if we were all in. I'm giving a "flip" example I guess you could say of what a trade like this might sound like to them.

It's why I'm not "sold" on us being able to get Juulsen for Vrbata.

If we thought we were one experienced D from winning the Cup I would trade Boesser to get the Cup.  Dallas traded Iginla to the Flames to get Neiwendyk, and it got them a Cup.  Teams, who think they are one piece away do some strange things to get that piece.  

[Drakrami]

No thanks to Tinordi if it is going to cost us a 1st rounder that is supposed to come back, we already have something similar and his name is Pedan. And there must be a reason Tinordi isn't able to crack the Canadiens lineup. 

 

 

[Toews]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

If we thought we were one experienced D from winning the Cup I would trade Boesser to get the Cup.  Dallas traded Iginla to the Flames to get Neiwendyk, and it got them a Cup.  Teams, who think they are one piece away do some strange things to get that piece.  

There is little sense in speaking in absolutes. I bet if you asked someone if they would trade Virtanen for a Cup, the answer to that would be "yes" as well. 

But you can't guarantee a Cup even if you knew you had the best team in the league after adding that last piece. Which essentially means that you are gambling away your future in the hopes that you can somehow win it big. And more often than not, that gamble usually ends up in failure. So I think Montreal will be receptive to giving up picks in return for the right player but I doubt that stretches to their best prospects. 

Also the Iginla trade is too far back (pre cap era) to be relevant today. I think there are some recent examples that are more relevant to the Vrbata situation. Guys like Vanek (who consequently sucked as a rental) and Gaborik come to mind as better comparable.

[ice orca]

10 hours ago, combover said:

There looking to add a d-man or forward or both . Wow Elliot super insightful is your internet handle Eklund. Friedman  has become just another hack since he got the big bucks from Rogers it went straight to his head/ego. 

Captian obvious would like to thank Elliot for his contribution. 

And he has the worst profile in all of TV. Deformed puppet 

What a clueless post...whaaa I don't like the way he looks.

[canucklehead44]

17 hours ago, Rush17 said:

but... but.... i like prust!!!  the team actually competes when hes in the lineup.  I hope we can re-sign him.  I would almost take the risk of losing him for nothing if we had a chance to bringing him back.  He's such a valuable piece like sutter.  love me some prusty!  Dorsett was flying last game too.  Hope that inspires Jake to do the same.  He's got that extra gear he just rarely uses it when hes playing with bottom 6 players.

Me too! Prust is awesome. The Canucks looked so ... limp... without him in the lineup. He brings so much energy, and a decent amount of skill. Having him in the lineup seems to make everybody play a little bit harder. 

I would love to lock him up for another year or two.