Hobble Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 In this day and age, the pot would probably get Twitter-shamed and fired for calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 2015: year of the butthurt. Lets hope 2016 is better, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 26 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said: 2015: year of the butthurt. Lets hope 2016 is better, but I doubt it. I wonder how your namesake would feel if someone named a team the Wops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 1 hour ago, HerrDrFunk said: I wonder how your namesake would feel if someone named a team the Wops? Pls, don't troll tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Who's trolling? It was an analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickjim23 Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 11 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: Let me put it this way: show of hands (or whatever passes for hands on a forum) who here has Inuit blood in them? Didn't say "I do!"? Then you don't get to tell Inuit people what is and isn't offensive to them. I actually do going fairly back, and I'm not the least bit offended... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I think what people are losing sight of here is the fact that these nicknames were coined in a different era, when names such as Redskins, Indians and yes, Eskimos were not considered demeaning. They actually were demeaning, but it was a era when people generally didn't care if they offended minorities. Now, we use terms like "African Americans" instead of "Negroes", "Asians", instead of "Chinamen", "First Nations" (or Aboriginals) instead of "Indians"..... We live in a more enlightened society now. At least some of us do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Canucky Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just to break the topic down a bit and work on a collective solution (we actually CAN do this (amazingly)... there are a few major debates going on... Is changing a team name hard? Should we care when others are offended? should a call to action (or a request) that is not justified by your own logic be considered whining and disregarded? My simple answers are... Yes, changing a team name might be a little difficult. Especially when you have fans that are attached to the imagery. But it certainly is NOT insurmountable. Infact, you might find more fans than before since likely many HAVE been boycotting you and not buying in because of your stupid team name. Portland is pretty progressive and i see american indians attending Winterhawks games with shirts that say (we love the team but not the logo). People always stop to chat with them and come away with a better understanding of their stance. Should we care when others are offended? Hell yes. Why shouldnt we be!? Sure, some people need a thicker skin, but most of the time, its not hard to show some common courtesy. If you think your opinion must be right because its yours, then you should give your head a shake. People deserve respect (most of them anyway) and as long as it doesnt directly harm me any, i tend to honor the wishes of others... usually they return the favor. For the last topic... If someone comes up to me and they say "Im offended when you do "X" because "Y"..." and I just cant wrap my mind around their reasoning, I dont automatically assume that their reasoning is flawed or incorrect. It COULD be that I am wrong, That MY logic is incorrect. At the VERY LEAST i should ponder the topic and TRY to understand where they are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 The team has been around 67 years, but now the name is suddenly a problem? Give me a break. It's time society stops giving these internet activists a platform to complain on. If we gave into every single person who complained, society as we know it would stop functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 33 minutes ago, DeNiro said: The team has been around 67 years, but now the name is suddenly a problem? Give me a break. It's time society stops giving these internet activists a platform to complain on. If we gave into every single person who complained, society as we know it would stop functioning. It's always been a problem. As others have stated, society just didn't care about offending indigenous people before. Keep in mind residential schools were still open well into the 1990s. Just because we've been doing something racist for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable. It's not a huge sacrifice to change a team name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 5 minutes ago, taxi said: It's always been a problem. As others have stated, society just didn't care about offending indigenous people before. Keep in mind residential schools were still open well into the 1990s. Just because we've been doing something racist for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable. It's not a huge sacrifice to change a team name. It's also important to not let one person speak for the masses. Every time one person speaks out doesn't mean society has to change something. That's not how it works. Do Inuit people really feel offended? Or is this one person speaking out based on his own agenda? And what are his real motives? Are they just simply to claim victory over colonialism? Or does he represent a large group of people who are genuinely offended? It's important to distinguish between the two IMO. Especially in the age of internet warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I'm a lion. Will the B.C. Lions change their name and mascot. This offends me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 16 hours ago, taxi said: It's always been a problem. As others have stated, society just didn't care about offending indigenous people before. Keep in mind residential schools were still open well into the 1990s. Just because we've been doing something racist for a long time, doesn't make it acceptable. It's not a huge sacrifice to change a team name. It's not a racist term, just as Indian is not a racist term. Indian is a misnomer, as Columbus & co thought they were discovering India. Natives refer to themselves as Indian quite often, in fact there was a news article during the election a few weeks ago in which a member on a reserve in Alberta referred to himself (& presumably his band) as Indians. http://globalnews.ca/news/2286021/polling-station-in-alberta-first-nation-runs-out-of-ballots/ Saskatchewan has a group called SIGA , the Saskatchewan Inidian Gaming Authority, that is owned & operated by Natives. Here's a paragraph from their website: "Through the operation of six First Nations gaming entertainment destinations, The Saskatchewan Indian Gaming Authority (SIGA) is strengthening the lives of First Nations people through employment, economic growth, and positive community relations." Clearly the word Indian isn't all that offensive to them, or they would change the name and/or never refer to themselves as such. Obviously you can never please everyone; no matter what the team does, whether they change the name or not, some folks are going to be upset. However, the idea that the word itself is racist is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 On 27/11/2015, 17:25:09, Squamfan said: this is in reply to falcon but because this new board sucks so hard i can't quote him my phone. It is not clear and your argument misses the point. It originally was a mistake but it has become a racist term so who cares what it was originally about, it is what it is. As for people being cool with it cause they use it, again you miss the point. Centuries of systematic racism where generations of a people have been called something and all their institutions called something doesn't just change or stop. Your argument is classic bully behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 50 minutes ago, inane said: this is in reply to falcon but because this new board sucks so hard i can't quote him my phone. It is not clear and your argument misses the point. It originally was a mistake but it has become a racist term so who cares what it was originally about, it is what it is. As for people being cool with it cause they use it, again you miss the point. Centuries of systematic racism where generations of a people have been called something and all their institutions called something doesn't just change or stop. Your argument is classic bully behaviour. How has it become a racist term in and of itself? Someone from India is called an Indian..that's not racist, it's literally what they call themselves. The N word, nope no race calls themselves that, ditto WOP, Chink, Kyk, literally every racist term is not & never used by any governing body to refer to themselves or anyone of their culture. Even the reappropriation of the N word is spelt differently, & again never used by any official representative body of any legitimate standing. Black peoples have also endured centuries of systemic racism. My argument is classic logic: If A=B, & B=C, then A=C. It seems like your projecting your beliefs onto others. Evidently SIGA doesn't view the term as racially charged as you, or they would've changed it a long time ago. Heck, they could change the word Indian to Indigenous & they wouldn't even have to change the signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 On 27/11/2015, 17:25:09, Squamfan said: Words change meanings, just cause it was something 500 years ago doesn't mean it still means that. But whatever, agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 16 hours ago, DeNiro said: It's also important to not let one person speak for the masses. Every time one person speaks out doesn't mean society has to change something. That's not how it works. Do Inuit people really feel offended? Or is this one person speaking out based on his own agenda? And what are his real motives? Are they just simply to claim victory over colonialism? Or does he represent a large group of people who are genuinely offended? It's important to distinguish between the two IMO. Especially in the age of internet warriors. It's objectively offensive to use a derogatory name of an ethnic group for a sports name. This is the kind of not so subtle racism that was acceptable in the 1950s but not now. I don't really care if 2 people or 2 million are speaking up about it, we should change it because it's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 10 minutes ago, taxi said: It's objectively offensive to use a derogatory name of an ethnic group for a sports name. This is the kind of not so subtle racism that was acceptable in the 1950s but not now. I don't really care if 2 people or 2 million are speaking up about it, we should change it because it's the right thing to do. While I see your point, the "right thing to do" should be happening a lot in society, yet it doesn't. This isn't just with Edmonton. There's also the Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Chiefs, Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, Chicago Blackhawks, etc. If we change the Edmonton Eskimos do we change all of those team names as well? Some of those teams have a long long history, including an original 6 hockey team. Sometimes the "right thing to do" turns into a grey area when history is made. At least, for the Edmonton Eskimos, it's probably not as big of a deal changing their name as it would be the Chicago Blackhawks, but the same arguments could still apply: the team has history, people already recognize the logo, etc. I'm not saying you're wrong. It is the "right thing to do" depending on who you're asking in society, but I think there's more to it than just "it's the right thing to do". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 22 minutes ago, The Lock said: While I see your point, the "right thing to do" should be happening a lot in society, yet it doesn't. This isn't just with Edmonton. There's also the Cleveland Indians, Kansas City Chiefs, Washington Redskins, Atlanta Braves, Chicago Blackhawks, etc. If we change the Edmonton Eskimos do we change all of those team names as well? Some of those teams have a long long history, including an original 6 hockey team. Sometimes the "right thing to do" turns into a grey area when history is made. At least, for the Edmonton Eskimos, it's probably not as big of a deal changing their name as it would be the Chicago Blackhawks, but the same arguments could still apply: the team has history, people already recognize the logo, etc. I'm not saying you're wrong. It is the "right thing to do" depending on who you're asking in society, but I think there's more to it than just "it's the right thing to do". Yeah...we should change those names too. Particularly the Indians, which takes it to a whole other level of just straight up racism. The Redskins is just as bad. The Blackhawks are a different scenario as they have been named after a specific person, and they work with local Indigenous communities to ensure respect. It would be like naming your team the "Braveharts" or the "Joan of Arcs". The same goes for the Florida Seminoles, who use the name of a specific group in respectful manner. You wouldn't have a team called the "negroes" "Chinamen" or "blackskins". I don't see why names like the Redskins or imagery like the Cleveland Indian is any way acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 6 minutes ago, taxi said: Yeah...we should change those names too. Particularly the Indians, which takes it to a whole other level of just straight up racism. The Redskins is just as bad. The Blackhawks are a different scenario as they have been named after a specific person, and they work with local Indigenous communities to ensure respect. It would be like naming your team the "Braveharts" or the "Joan of Arcs". The same goes for the Florida Seminoles, who use the name of a specific group in respectful manner. You wouldn't have a team called the "negroes" "Chinamen" or "blackskins". I don't see why names like the Redskins or imagery like the Cleveland Indian is any way acceptable. The irony is the Indians are an older team than the Blackhawks. They are over a century old (started in 1901, changed their name to the Indians in 1915 I believe). That would be a hard hard sell to change that team name. There actually have been protesters who have been arrested in the past. I guess be thankful at least that the Eskimos are in Canada. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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