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Was Benning right about Sutter?


BlackRedYellow

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13 hours ago, WTG said:

Sutter has always been a low event player analytically.

 

You won't expect much from Sutter offensively and do not expect to give up much defensively. He's no manny Malhotra defensively but he's decent enough. Losing him really hurt. But what hurt this team more is the fact we didn't have enough capspace to resign Richardson incase of injury. Richardson was our best PK center statistically last year. We couldn't resign him because we had to sign Dorsett to a huge contract apparently.

 

Goes to show how bad Benning is at using capspace and the fact he is targeting the wrong type of players. Bonino would have worked out just fine we actually didn't need Sutter. Bonino is a much better offensive player than Sutter it shows in his scoring chances for. Albeit Bonino does give up more high danger scoring chances than Sutter. But does that really matter. If we had secondary scoring right now we'd be just fine.

 

But whatever doesn't matter now #dontwinforthefins #Laine2016

I don't think you have the kind of grasp on 'analytics' to declare Sutter a 'low event' player.

Sutter has played primarily with Steve Downie and Nick Spaling last year, and the year before it was Craig Adams, Joe Vitale and Tanner Glass.

Sutter scored 20 goals playing with marginal depth players in a shutdown role behind Crosby and Malkin.

He came here and immediately started scoring at a .5ppg clip.

Bonino went from a comparable producer to .2ppg in Pittsburgh playing a similar role to Sutter - and Bonino is arguably playing with much better linemates in a far deeper bottom six than Pittsburgh has had in recent years.   Bonino's linemates are Hornqvist (over 100pts the past two seasons) and Dupuis (better than .5ppg throughout his entire time in Pittsburgh)..  The Pens fourth line features guys like Fehr and Cullen. It would be quite interesting imo to see what Sutter would have done with a pair of 50+ point players... as opposed to 5 linemates who didn't score 100 pts combined.

Nick has 5 points in 25 games.  Was he always known as a 'low event player'?

"Analytics" with no context are utterly useless props.

The suggestion that there would be more secondary scoring if Bonino were here is utter nonsense - particularly if he were injured and not even in the lineup (a minor fact preventing Sutter from providing secondary scoring over the past 10ish games....)

Thankfully, the finer points aren't lost on our GM, unlike the armchairs on these forums.

As for the 'loss' of Richardson - this is a signature contradiction of tank nation.  Constant whining about bringing back veterans that take the spots away from all the 'kids' that we want to 'develop' in the midst of the tank.

Richardson got three years of term in Arizona - at over 2 million.  I love Richardson - he's a great depth center imo and worth the term and hit he got - but if Benning had re-signed him to three years of term here this place would have blown a headgasket whining about him roadblocking the opportunities for the emerging centers.

 

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It's not entirely that we miss Sutter because of how great he has been for us, he was good. But he was our only other veteran NHL centreman and it's our lack of depth that has put extra strain on McCann, Horvat, and Cracknell down the middle. Cracknell is a good depth guy at best, and Horvat and McCann are still better used playing under the radar.

Horvat has been terrible as a 2nd line centre. An absolute failure. Kesler played close to 2.5 seasons (and a full AHL season as a top-scoring player) before he cracked the 20 goal mark and started to look like more than a very good 3rd line centre. So not calling Horvat a bust, but he's been put in a position to fail this season without Sutter.

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Sutter is a great addition to this team.  As many have stated, he brings speed, defence, experience, work ethic, leadership and can score timely goals.  He will likely be the only vet players that will be with the team throughout the transition period and beyond.

Other than the lower cap hit, I don't know why anyone would want Bonino over Sutter.  Even with that, the cap hit will not be a problem for the Canucks in the upcoming years.

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People should cut the whining and the nonsense contradictions.

Benning actually did an excellent job of riding a tight line - he wanted to provide this fanbase with a team that could compete - and at the same time provide a hefty amount of opportunity for all the young players that virtually everyone wanted to see in the lineup.   You can't simply put a number of NHL veterans in your back pocket in the event the team might run into key injuries - there was no real roster space for them and if they were worth their salt they'd have been lost to waivers as the Canucks work players like McCann, Virtanen, Baer, Hutton into the lineup.

It was playing out exceptionally well actually - until Hamhuis, Sutter, Tanev, Sbisa, Prust, Higgins, Markstrom, Hutton, Virtanen started going down to injury.

There becomes a tipping point for a team like this - particularly when you start to factor in the extremely road heavy schedule thus far - that the young guys not used to the rigors of this kind of schedule start to wilt, and the key veterans along with them.   

That is the risk and price you pay for the type of transition people wanted.    You tank nation kids don't understand that one high pick guarantees your franchise precisely nothing - it's a far greater risk to rip a franchise apart than to strike a wise balance..  The healthy Canucks are a solid, competitive team.  Their depth however is young and inexperienced - as we wanted it - and if this team runs into a string of key injuries, well the consequence is fairly obvious.

What I find comical is the whining with even the suggestion that Benning might add a depth center under the circmstances.  NO!  We want our full tank nation!  What's the point of adding a needed piece under the circumstances!?!   We want to both b!tch about every loss incessantly - beg for them simultaneously - and skewer the coach and GM as we ride a ridiculous contradiction the whole time.  You simply don't have the guts to endure the 'transition'. 

 

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JW Actually joined the Canucks 7th Jul 2014. Another Benning friendship, just like his son is on the pay roll too as a scout

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=725594

 

Miller joined July 1st 2014 but I don't din't try to make that leap,  Miller was an old Benning draft pick and a person he new well.

Barkowski  another JB freind signed1st July 2015

Cracknell was originally signed to play in Utica, the AHL has been his bread and butter. In 18 years pro hockey he has played 149 NHL games and never played a full season...the longest strech is 24 games in any one season, he's 30 years old. He was available to any NHL team

Prust joined the team this summer. Many games he sat in the pressbox for the Habs..but I do say it's the best we could get for Kassian a guy gone off the tracks

Corrado is in no mans land in TO for sure but don't judge him on their depth chart judge him on how he played here I thought he was OK, solid defensive player

Markstrom is he better than Lack I honestly can't see any upgrade I hope he does well but surely that has to show in his play ??

Weber I have to say i was in his court last season and expected a good season this year, he's failed himself. He's on a cheap salary and frankly I'll be surprised if he's here next season.....neither should Bartkowski be here. He's one of a number of soft defensmen we have.

Benning has a tough summer coming up in 2016.

 

 

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20 hours ago, WTG said:

Sutter has always been a low event player analytically.

 

You won't expect much from Sutter offensively and do not expect to give up much defensively. He's no manny Malhotra defensively but he's decent enough. Losing him really hurt. But what hurt this team more is the fact we didn't have enough capspace to resign Richardson incase of injury. Richardson was our best PK center statistically last year. We couldn't resign him because we had to sign Dorsett to a huge contract apparently.

 

Goes to show how bad Benning is at using capspace and the fact he is targeting the wrong type of players. Bonino would have worked out just fine we actually didn't need Sutter. Bonino is a much better offensive player than Sutter it shows in his scoring chances for. Albeit Bonino does give up more high danger scoring chances than Sutter. But does that really matter. If we had secondary scoring right now we'd be just fine.

 

But whatever doesn't matter now #dontwinforthefins #Laine2016

What kind of a player is Brandon Sutter?  And why did Benning trade for him?

He's a defensive specialist.  Just like Bonino.  He's an elite penalty killer (according to Pierre McGuire who may be a bit of a pretender coaching and GM wise but he knows a lot about the Pens), he's fast, has a long reach (6'3"),  is good at face offs (53.6%) and is the only right shot centre on the Canucks.  And as a bonus, he scored 21 goals last year and pro-rates as a 20 goal scorer this year.

So, as a defensive specialist, don't you want him to be a low event player?  His job is to shore up the middle while the Canucks young centres develop.  To shelter them in other words.  Between him and Hank, to play against other teams top lines and provide enough of a threat to draw the best defenders. 

Benning went for it when the trade was there because he saw the benefits.  He also overpaid and extended too soon (I'll give you that) but Benning has a pattern of knowing what he wants and making damn sure he gets it (Miller, Vrbata, Sutter) even if he goes a little overboard on the price and cap hit.

Incidentally, Benning did want to keep Richardson but he wouldn't sign a 1 year contract.  One of Bennings other patterns is only offering players term if he considers them to be core to the team.  All others, he tries to limit to 1 year.

Sutter was absolutely the right player for the job.  We can see that because the team has fallen apart without him.  The young centres are forced to play unsheltered minutes over their heads and have stopped producing.  Offensive zone time has been reduced for all but the top line which puts pressure on the defense and goaltending.  With all players healthy, the defense is the weak link imo.  And lastly, the PK now sucks.

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Sutter is a defensive specialist that is average at his job that we paid premium for.

 

That is the problem, I do not question the acquisition of Suttter I question the price it took to get him. Sutter isn't much better than Bonino overall and Bonino comes at a cheaper price tag.

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5 minutes ago, WTG said:

Sutter is a defensive specialist that is average at his job that we paid premium for.

 

That is the problem, I do not question the acquisition of Suttter I question the price it took to get him. Sutter isn't much better than Bonino overall and Bonino comes at a cheaper price tag.

I don't think he's particularly hot stuff but I do think he fills the role well especially since he's right handed.

As for the money, I agree.  Benning is free with the money with his foundational players.  Gillis was a bit of a hard a$$. 

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