WHL rocks Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 7 hours ago, Tavrohorvat53 said: This is great news! Another draft pick as compensation for vancouver! Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 hour ago, The Lock said: The start of their issues happened before Rutherford. Rutherford just helped them decline faster. Under Shero, the Penguins were trading away picks and prospects still for rental players for their playoff runs. It's the usual stuff you'd see though from a team looking to make a cup run. Rutherford seems to have escalated that process. On top of that, he's traded for Kessel's big contract while having 4 large contracts already in Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and Fleury. With Kessel's contract, that's 38 milliion in cap space used up for the next 4 years. That leaves less than half of their cap space left for 15 players, not including scratches. That's an average cap hit of merely 2.5 or less per player. Talk about being tied down! lol One could argue that the problems started before Rutherford but Shero still drafted pretty good players even in the late 20's and managed to trade for pretty good players. For example, he drafted Pouliot, Maata in 2012. Beau Bennett in 2010 and Despres with the 30th overall pick in 2009. Most cup contending teams have to find the fine balance of maintaining the contender status by trading away some picks and at the same time drafting well enough to not barren the prospect pool so that these players can come up and become important contributors in the near future. In my opinion, Shero was doing pretty well in this regard. They didn't have the solid goaltending in those playoffs series and their defence was mobile but unable to defend very well. He had to either find a better goalie than Fleury (hard to do) and/or find a defenceman that is better than Letang, a shutdown defenceman that can be sent out in all situations (this was probably even harder to do than finding a better goalie than Fleury), to have a chance at the cup. I mean look at other contenders: NYR (Lundqvist and McDonagh/Girardi) and Bruins (Thomas/Rask + Chara) in the East and Blackhawks (no need to say anything here) and Kings (Quick and Doughty) in the West. Crosby and Malkin are good but all of the above teams have deep enough forward depth to match Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs so the difference comes down to defence and goalie. Shero did well to trade for pretty decent support players like Perron and Neal to name a few. I mean look at Gillis, he was great in building the team in the first few years to become the cup contender but wasn't able to keep it there for too long. For example, he could never find a replacement for Salo. Rutherford on the other hand, traded for Kessel and his giant contract like you said so yourself. And he traded away Neal (this trade can be argued to be a wash at best... Neal had 40 goals and 81 points in 2011-12). I think Rutherford definitely has definitely had a toxic effect in Pittsburgh whereas with Shero, it's hard to say if he really was the problem or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 4 minutes ago, khay said: One could argue that the problems started before Rutherford but Shero still drafted pretty good players even in the late 20's and managed to trade for pretty good players. For example, he drafted Pouliot, Maata in 2012. Beau Bennett in 2010 and Despres with the 30th overall pick in 2009. Most cup contending teams have to find the fine balance of maintaining the contender status by trading away some picks and at the same time drafting well enough to not barren the prospect pool so that these players can come up and become important contributors in the near future. In my opinion, Shero was doing pretty well in this regard. They didn't have the solid goaltending in those playoffs series and their defence was mobile but unable to defend very well. He had to either find a better goalie than Fleury (hard to do) and/or find a defenceman that is better than Letang, a shutdown defenceman that can be sent out in all situations (this was probably even harder to do than finding a better goalie than Fleury), to have a chance at the cup. I mean look at other contenders: NYR (Lundqvist and McDonagh/Girardi) and Bruins (Thomas/Rask + Chara) in the East and Blackhawks (no need to say anything here) and Kings (Quick and Doughty) in the West. Crosby and Malkin are good but all of the above teams have deep enough forward depth to match Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs so the difference comes down to defence and goalie. Shero did well to trade for pretty decent support players like Perron and Neal to name a few. I mean look at Gillis, he was great in building the team in the first few years to become the cup contender but wasn't able to keep it there for too long. For example, he could never find a replacement for Salo. Rutherford on the other hand, traded for Kessel and his giant contract like you said so yourself. And he traded away Neal (this trade can be argued to be a wash at best... Neal had 40 goals and 81 points in 2011-12). I think Rutherford definitely has definitely had a toxic effect in Pittsburgh whereas with Shero, it's hard to say if he really was the problem or not. Who cares about the why. Do we get compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 2 hours ago, khay said: One could argue that the problems started before Rutherford but Shero still drafted pretty good players even in the late 20's and managed to trade for pretty good players. For example, he drafted Pouliot, Maata in 2012. Beau Bennett in 2010 and Despres with the 30th overall pick in 2009. Most cup contending teams have to find the fine balance of maintaining the contender status by trading away some picks and at the same time drafting well enough to not barren the prospect pool so that these players can come up and become important contributors in the near future. In my opinion, Shero was doing pretty well in this regard. They didn't have the solid goaltending in those playoffs series and their defence was mobile but unable to defend very well. He had to either find a better goalie than Fleury (hard to do) and/or find a defenceman that is better than Letang, a shutdown defenceman that can be sent out in all situations (this was probably even harder to do than finding a better goalie than Fleury), to have a chance at the cup. I mean look at other contenders: NYR (Lundqvist and McDonagh/Girardi) and Bruins (Thomas/Rask + Chara) in the East and Blackhawks (no need to say anything here) and Kings (Quick and Doughty) in the West. Crosby and Malkin are good but all of the above teams have deep enough forward depth to match Crosby and Malkin in the playoffs so the difference comes down to defence and goalie. Shero did well to trade for pretty decent support players like Perron and Neal to name a few. I mean look at Gillis, he was great in building the team in the first few years to become the cup contender but wasn't able to keep it there for too long. For example, he could never find a replacement for Salo. Rutherford on the other hand, traded for Kessel and his giant contract like you said so yourself. And he traded away Neal (this trade can be argued to be a wash at best... Neal had 40 goals and 81 points in 2011-12). I think Rutherford definitely has definitely had a toxic effect in Pittsburgh whereas with Shero, it's hard to say if he really was the problem or not. Don't get me wrong. I'm not bashing Shero. He did a good job in Pittsburgh. What I'm referring to more is similar really to what we've gone though along with what any cup contender goes through: rental players. Picks, prospects, etc, get traded for a rental player or 2 in order to try and push the team to Stanley Cup contention. Shero was doing this before Rutherford arrived. In fact, Shero was well known for his trade deadline acquisitions. As a result of this, the cupboard was being partially emptied before Rutherford. Rutherford just emptied it further and made some really questionable trades along with it. Shero did start it, but purely out of trying to get the team to win as many cups as possible with the core they had each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 We should hire him as an assistant once the compensation rule changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: We should hire him as an assistant once the compensation rule changes. Do we get compensation from the Penguins for Sullivan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Do we get compensation from the Penguins for Sullivan? I don't think so. We would have already gotten it by now if that were the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I don't think so. We would have already gotten it by now if that were the case. That's too bad. i thought we might get our second back from the Sutter trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 On December 12, 2015 at 10:11 AM, oldnews said: Idiocy. What a stupid, stupid franchise. I feel bad for the guy, no way he gets another opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 It is Sidney Crosby right now that is the main problem of that team. He's not performing to standards. But the team is top-heavy and has been for years. Key acquisitions like Nick Bonino, Matt Cullen and Eric Fehr haven't been picking up the slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Much easier to fire the coach than trade Sidney Crosby and co. Maybe a change is all those forwards need to get it going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Priceless commentary in this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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