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Bennings biggest mistake so far: Signing Prust instead of Richardson


*Buzzsaw*

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2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

If this was Benning's biggest mistake, then he's doing pretty damn good. Richardson was no faceoff specialist, he was pretty good, when he could stay healthy. Horvat was our leading faceoff guy last year, so the question should be: why can't Horvat win faceoffs this year? I agree that the Canucks are terrible in the faceoff circle, they seem to lose more than win every game, which means giving up puck possession. Maybe our centres need to practice that more. Where's Manny when you need him?

What are you talking about? Horvat has the highest faceoff % on the team at 51%. If you're gonna criticize him, you should at least be specific. He's struggling at PK and defensive zone faceoffs.

McCann needs the most help in faceoffs on this team.

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5 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

richardson was my favorite player over the past two years. sucked to see him leave, but it doesn't make sense to give a bottom six forward a 3 year deal at that term when you have other guys who would have essentially pushed him to a fourth line role after this year.

from a cap standpoint, it didn't make sense to re-sign richardson.

 

 

5 hours ago, HC20.0 said:

Why? Vey and Horvat were locked to be on the team this year at Center.

Sedin

Sutter(Bonino at the time.)

Horvat

Vey. 

And McCann and Cassels in the system looking to take spots.

The center positions were locked, and obviously nobody saw McCann taking Vey's spot, but signing Richardson for 3 years would've clogged the Canucks down the middle. 1 year I'd have been fine with, but with a lot of C prospects in our system, 3 would have been WAY too long. 

Nobody wanted Kassian. Period. He had 0 value. We basically had to give him away to Montreal, so how could we have gotten a prospect or pick back? 

 

These comments capture what I remember. When Richardson signed with Arizona for 3 years at 2 million I don't recall anyone saying that the Canucks should have signed him for that amount and term. Personally, I liked Richardson and I agree that the Canucks would be a better team now if he was on the roster.

But, as HC20 says, most people were happy to see him go to make room for young guys at center. In addition to Sedin and Bonino (now Sutter), Horvat was a lock. And Vey was expected to be on the team. And there was a lot of talk about Cassels getting a call-up later this season. (I know that no-one is saying that now). By next year, the idea was that we would have a logjam at center, so signing Richardson for 3 three years did not make sense.

With Benning I do not see any big mistakes, just a lot of small ones -- including overpaying for Sbisa, Sutter, Miller, Prust, Dorsett and Vrbata. And, in hindsight, the trade for Vey looks bad, and the trade for Baertschi is not looking so good either, although both those trades looked fine at the time. 

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5 hours ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

I loved Richy, but on a 3 year deal it wouldn't have made sense. I don't blame him at all for taking it when you see guys like Lappy and Goc failing to get contracts and land in Europe. I remember reading Glencross say that he wished he'd never taken a discount in the league, that he maximized every contract to the utmost extent. Richardson was looking out for himself, which you fully expect him to do, and I wish him the best down the road. Awesome team guy, solid bottom 6 center.

i liked him a lot as well

he will be a fine hockey player for 3 years

he should have been signed and traded when he no longer fit in with this team

he was a solid asset that could have been retained at reasonable dollars, likely without any trade condition restrictions, and he was allowed to walk

i think he would help the canucks for 2 years minimum, and could have been traded after that

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3 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

i liked him a lot as well

he will be a fine hockey player for 3 years

he should have been signed and traded when he no longer fit in with this team

he was a solid asset that could have been retained at reasonable dollars, likely without any trade condition restrictions, and he was allowed to walk

i think he would help the canucks for 2 years minimum, and could have been traded after that

That's a fair argument. I just don't think JB wanted to commit more than 2 years to guys he didn't see as potential core pieces. 

This wss one of Gillis' best money ball acquisitions.

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The Canucks have a very effective 4th line that continually out work their opponents. Horvat is the real underachiever this year. No points in 19 games, losing face offs left and right. I'm sure no one expected that. Sutter is a big problem being out. Hardly a Prust issue as the biggest issue. They aren't going to win the cup, enjoy the games.

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6 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

It's clear this team is no contender, but what is really killing it is the lack of skill at center, especially in the faceoff circle.

The Canucks are continually having to dig themselves out of a hole after they lose a faceoff in their own zone... it is killing them, both physically and mentally.

The big difference this year?  Sutter is out, Henrik can't be out every shift, and there is no Brad Richardson as backup to take the critical draws.  Bo Horvat has dropped off in his win percentage so he is no replacement.  Cracknell is a decent faceoff man, but nothing special.

Every team needs a faceoff specialist, the Canucks don't have one.

While I overall like Prust as a player, he is no better, and perhaps a little worse than Richardson as an offensive force, (both have similar points this year) and isn't a real physical presence.  The big advantage to Richardson is he is an excellent faceoff man.

Benning should have signed Richardson, and done one of two other things for the 4th line, either play Cracknell as a winger on the 4th line, or bring up one of the young big forwards form Utica.  Either Grenier, Gaunce or Kenins.

Right now, Benning is now over a barrel, every team in the league knows he needs a center ice man, and they are demanding real gold for a trade.

Benning should have traded Kassian for a prospect who could develop instead Prust, and used the money to sign Richardson.

Rich, Crack and Dorsett would be a playoff caliber 4th line and at not a horrible price, only because Crack is a BC boy and favors us.

Having 2C's on the 4th line really seems like a good idea. In game depth and waive-out faceoff coverage.

 

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1 hour ago, Wild Sean Monahan said:

That's a fair argument. I just don't think JB wanted to commit more than 2 years to guys he didn't see as potential core pieces. 

This wss one of Gillis' best money ball acquisitions.

You're right there.  Except I believe that it is only 1 year with a few exceptions.  Core is a little strong though.  He has signed some players that he felt were important pieces for as long as he felt they would be useful to the Canucks:

Miller 3 years, Vrbata 2 years, Dorsett 4 years, Sbisa 3 years, Sutter 5 years

Show me:  Vey 1 year, Baertschi 1 year, Kenins 1 year, Cracknell 1 year, Bartkowski 1 year, Weber 1 year, Biega 1 year

Soon to be UFA's not renewed yet:  Hamhuis, Vrbata, Prust, Biega

I think the rest of JB's contracts are either standard 3 year entry level or minor league

 

 

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Mcann says Hi!

Though we sure could use Richardson right now there was no way to predict Sutter would get injured and the Cracken has been as good a 4th line center as we could have hoped for. Sure the depth would have been super but we cant just keep players around in the press box for depth like poor Corrado.

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7 minutes ago, Bo.Horvat53 said:

Meh.. I mean I liked the guy, but signing him would mean no McCann. Our C's would be Hank, Sutter, Bo, Richy. Solid, yes, but we are transitioning. We need more youth, not veteran guys. 

McCann would have been the guy who was penciled in when one of the above was injured or needed a maintenance day... which would be inevitable.   It would have given the Canucks depth, and given McCann the opportunity to learn without the pressure being on him to play every game... he could have worked more on improving his strengths instead of being tired from playing night in and night out.

And with the current situation with Sutter's injury, we'd have McCann in for a long spell after having watched and learned.

Cracknell could have replaced Prust, he is big and tough... and can play winger... he did great in that position when McCann was centering the 4th line.

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8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

It's clear this team is no contender, but what is really killing it is the lack of skill at center, especially in the faceoff circle.

The Canucks are continually having to dig themselves out of a hole after they lose a faceoff in their own zone... it is killing them, both physically and mentally.

The big difference this year?  Sutter is out, Henrik can't be out every shift, and there is no Brad Richardson as backup to take the critical draws.  Bo Horvat has dropped off in his win percentage so he is no replacement.  Cracknell is a decent faceoff man, but nothing special.

Every team needs a faceoff specialist, the Canucks don't have one.

While I overall like Prust as a player, he is no better, and perhaps a little worse than Richardson as an offensive force, (both have similar points this year) and isn't a real physical presence.  The big advantage to Richardson is he is an excellent faceoff man.

Benning should have signed Richardson, and done one of two other things for the 4th line, either play Cracknell as a winger on the 4th line, or bring up one of the young big forwards form Utica.  Either Grenier, Gaunce or Kenins.

Right now, Benning is now over a barrel, every team in the league knows he needs a center ice man, and they are demanding real gold for a trade.

Benning should have traded Kassian for a prospect who could develop instead Prust, and used the money to sign Richardson.

You may want to check your facts.  Both Sutter and Bo have strong faceoff wins in the defensive zone, Bo being the highest and easily the team leading.  Bo has NOT dropped off, AND, Cracknell is NOT a decent faceoff man, he is part of the problem.  Here are the most recent stats, first numbers are overall FO %, second FO % defensive zone, third FO % neutral zone.

Sutter 53.6, 54.3, 56.3; Horvat 50.5, 61.7, 51.1; Sedin 49.4, 34.8, 43.9; McCann 33.5, 29.6, 34.0; Cracknell 39.2, 35.8, 46.3

The real problem with our centres in the defensive zone is Sedin because he takes so many and is only 34.8. For some reason he has always been terrible in the D zone, going back years.  Add to that McCann and Cracknell.  McCann gets a pass for now because he is a rookie and does so many other things well.  Cracknell does not and is a liability in FOs.  When Sutter is playing and more of the D zone FO are taken by him and Horvat, we are ok.  Bo is our 2nd best FO man overall, and our BEST defensive zone FO man !

Now to your point, yes Richardson was a far better centre than Cracknell and much better on FOs.  If he could have been resigned for 1 year and Cracknell played wing, things would be much better.  But let's face it, even though the team on the whole is struggling with FOs, and FOs are important in puck possession, our problems right now are more in people not named Sedin scoring goals.

PS 'Henrik can't be out every shift'  At 34.8, I don't want Sedin taking any D zone faceoffs. 

                              

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2 hours ago, BanTSN said:

The problem we now face is the lack of Brandon Sutter.  Brandon Sutter, who was a 3rd liner in Pittsburgh.

I agree.

Keep in mind Sutter was behind... who? I'd attribute Pitts disarray partially because Sutter departed for the bald peanut.

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