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Bennings biggest mistake so far: Signing Prust instead of Richardson


*Buzzsaw*

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1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Who assumes the captaincy? Who assumes the leadership roles, if everyone is new to the team?

How do the younger players learn the game from veterans, if they are all traded away?

 

Not to mention everybody decent has been traded and we're now an ahl team with squat for offense and squat for defense. Like two top picks can turn that ahl team around in two years. He truly wants to be Edmonton.

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Just now, Baggins said:

Not to mention everybody decent has been traded and we're now an ahl team with squat for offense and squat for defense. Like two top picks can turn that ahl team around in two years. He truly wants to be Edmonton.

Notice that he hasn't responded yet.

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I think Benning's biggest mistake has been misjudging the local market. 

He knowing made moves unpopular with the fans and they haven't exactly been good enough to change the minds of many.

Honestly I'm not sure any other GM could have done better or worse in the same situation. But Benning has not had the best of luck with his moves.

IMO the biggest mistake was signing Miller. Right or wrong, that immediately put many fans off and set the tone. He's created a situation with a lot of fans waiting for him to fail just so they can say "I told you so".

 

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12 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Trading away valuable players that won't be part of a future winning team (Hamhuis, Sedins, Verbata, Burrows, Hansen).  Drafting top end players for year or two to get a #1D prospect and someone to replace at least one of the Sedins.

Trading away all the vets would be setting this team up for ten years of rebuilding. Players like Vrbata and the other ufa's will more than likely be moved if possible. The fact that they did not go after Stoll tells me that they are more interested in the draft then making the playoffs. (They will say developing the kids)

Who would you move the twins to. Who could afforded their contracts? (14 mil) It is easy to through out statements but tell us how. What are you going to get back? Draft picks?

 

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1 hour ago, Baggins said:

Name a team that completed your notion of a rebuild in TWO years.

:lol:

Penguins 3 top picks (Malkin, Crosby, Fleury) that they built their franchise around.

Blackhawks Toews & Kane taken top 3 in back to back years. 

I didn't say a rebuild takes 2 years.  I said you need top end picks for a couple of years and build your team around them. 

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1 hour ago, appleboy said:

Who would you move the twins to. Who could afforded their contracts? (14 mil) It is easy to through out statements but tell us how. What are you going to get back? Draft picks?

 

Move twins to a contender, Montreal.. Tampa Bay.  It's not 14 mil, it's whatever the cap hit would be with only a portion of the year left.  Then that team has the offseason to deal with cap issues.  What do you get back?  Yes, draft picks and prospects.  Montreal is has a stacked minor league system and is going to deal some of those players this year to try to win it. 

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32 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Move twins to a contender, Montreal.. Tampa Bay.  It's not 14 mil, it's whatever the cap hit would be with only a portion of the year left.  Then that team has the offseason to deal with cap issues.  What do you get back?  Yes, draft picks and prospects.  Montreal is has a stacked minor league system and is going to deal some of those players this year to try to win it. 

Montreals system is no better than ours. Their draft picks will suck. You have 0 understanding of how the cap works! We would have to carry the bulk of their salary this year and the Canadians would have to dismantle their team next year to fit them in for the next two.The twins would have to go to a bottom feeder.

Try again. 

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7 minutes ago, appleboy said:

Montreals system is no better than ours. Their draft picks will suck. You have 0 understanding of how the cap works! We would have to carry the bulk of their salary this year and the Canadians would have to dismantle their team next year to fit them in for the next two.The twins would have to go to a bottom feeder.

Try again. 

Everyone Montreal brings up from the farm does well but their system is the same as ours?  Ok there buddy, try again.  The Canadiens DO have to dismantle their team in 2 years, look what contracts are going to be ending for them.  Their window is now.

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2 hours ago, Canada Hockey Place said:

I think Benning's biggest mistake has been misjudging the local market. 

He knowing made moves unpopular with the fans and they haven't exactly been good enough to change the minds of many.

Honestly I'm not sure any other GM could have done better or worse in the same situation. But Benning has not had the best of luck with his moves.

IMO the biggest mistake was signing Miller. Right or wrong, that immediately put many fans off and set the tone. He's created a situation with a lot of fans waiting for him to fail just so they can say "I told you so".

 

Actually, Benning has had a lot of luck with his moves. The players he traded away, waived, or didn't resign have all been disappointing (Bieksa, Kesler, Lack, Clendening, Bonino, Matthias, Kassian, Stanton, Corrado, Schroeder). Sure Vey and Baertschi haven't really panned out, but overall he has been lucky (at the time I usually dislike his trades). 

Gillis (thanks Torts) was more or less forced to trade Luongo. Lack showed he was not ready to be a number 1, and Markstrom was a huge question mark. He went out and got a proven number 1 goalie who helped the team get to the playoffs.

If Miller could have been moved after the awesome season Lack had it would have made sense, but who really knows. It made more sense to trade Lack for something than lose Markstrom on waivers. 

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1 hour ago, CanadianRugby said:

Everyone Montreal brings up from the farm does well but their system is the same as ours?  Ok there buddy, try again.  The Canadiens DO have to dismantle their team in 2 years, look what contracts are going to be ending for them.  Their window is now.

They would have to clear major space for next year as they are at 61 mil for 17 players.(Van will not carry their salary for next year) Plus the Twins have a no movement clause. How will you get around their contract.

The Sedins are here until they retire.

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4 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Penguins 3 top picks (Malkin, Crosby, Fleury) that they built their franchise around.

Blackhawks Toews & Kane taken top 3 in back to back years. 

I didn't say a rebuild takes 2 years.  I said you need top end picks for a couple of years and build your team around them. 

They needed more top picks than that. For instance, in Chicago's case, there were still multiple misses (Barker, Ruutu, Skille, Yakubov, Voboriev, and Beach were all top-11 picks that busted). Also, lots of other picks had to turn out better than they "should" have (Keith, Seabrook, Saad, Hjalmarsson, Byfuglien, Bolland, Brouwer, Shaw, etc.).

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14 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Penguins 3 top picks (Malkin, Crosby, Fleury) that they built their franchise around.

Blackhawks Toews & Kane taken top 3 in back to back years. 

I didn't say a rebuild takes 2 years.  I said you need top end picks for a couple of years and build your team around them. 

They were rebuilding longer than drafting those three. they had to file for bankruptcy protection, and were seriously looking at relocating, Try again.

So you're ok with being a bottom feeder for 5 to 10 years? Chicago took 7 years. And you're completely ignoring the list of teams it just hasn't worked for.

Bottom line: There are no guarantees.

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On December 14, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Canucks-12 said:

Our 4th line has been the 2nd best line for the team. 

Prust fits in perfectly into the 4th line. It's not even close to the biggest mistake Benning has made.

Exactly.  Our 4th line of Cracks, Dor and Prust have been consistent in bringing the Thrust every game.  They have done their jobs in maintaining a cycle, putting pressure on and they get their chances.  They have done a good job, do they score?  No, but in general when a 4th line scores it's considered gravy.    It's up to the other lines to continue that momentum and, aside from the Sedins, it doesn't happen.  Why?  Can't blame the rooks, so who else is in our middle 6?  Higgins, Vrbata, Burrows.  These 3 are taking the positions of the draft picks we missed out on in the Gillis era.  These spots should be taken by the 25- 28 year old prospects that we have none of.  Higgins and Burrows could have been shipped out a la Blackhawks style and we may have received good value for them after 2011 run... But alas here we are...

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On December 14, 2015 at 2:42 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

It's clear this team is no contender, but what is really killing it is the lack of skill at center, especially in the faceoff circle.

The Canucks are continually having to dig themselves out of a hole after they lose a faceoff in their own zone... it is killing them, both physically and mentally.

The big difference this year?  Sutter is out, Henrik can't be out every shift, and there is no Brad Richardson as backup to take the critical draws.  Bo Horvat has dropped off in his win percentage so he is no replacement.  Cracknell is a decent faceoff man, but nothing special.

Every team needs a faceoff specialist, the Canucks don't have one.

While I overall like Prust as a player, he is no better, and perhaps a little worse than Richardson as an offensive force, (both have similar points this year) and isn't a real physical presence.  The big advantage to Richardson is he is an excellent faceoff man.

Benning should have signed Richardson, and done one of two other things for the 4th line, either play Cracknell as a winger on the 4th line, or bring up one of the young big forwards form Utica.  Either Grenier, Gaunce or Kenins.

Right now, Benning is now over a barrel, every team in the league knows he needs a center ice man, and they are demanding real gold for a trade.

Benning should have traded Kassian for a prospect who could develop instead Prust, and used the money to sign Richardson.

A face-off specialist should have more than 48.4% in faceoff, no?

 

Brad Richardson ARI R 30 2 7 9 -3 21 0 0 0 0 2 0 38 5.3 15:18 21.0 48.4
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10 hours ago, Baggins said:

They were rebuilding longer than drafting those three. they had to file for bankruptcy protection, and were seriously looking at relocating, Try again.

So you're ok with being a bottom feeder for 5 to 10 years? Chicago took 7 years. And you're completely ignoring the list of teams it just hasn't worked for.

Bottom line: There are no guarantees.

Who said anything about guarantees?  With 30 teams in the league no matter how good your plan is there's only a 1/30 chance you win.  But yeah I'm 100% willing to be a bottom feeder to get good players.  Had to do it to get the Sedins.  There are no shortcuts. 

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On 12/14/2015 at 0:34 PM, Grape said:

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&report=teamsummary&season=20142015&gameType=2&sort=faceoffWinPctg&aggregate=0

Team FO stats for 2014-2015. There's barely any correlation to FO's and winning. If you're too lazy to click I'll give you an overview (Y if team made playoffs,  N if they didn't, in the order of FO rankings) 

NYNYYNNNYYNYNNYYNYYNYYNYNYNYYN

Not much correlation eh

 

Good link but stats never tell the whole story for a team or for a player (although they're useful - re Moneyball).  Carolina had two very good centres in Eric and Jordan Staal.  This likely gave them a high FOW% but they didn't have much of a supporting cast so they were a losing team.  Just think how bad they'd be without the Staals and Ward.  I tried looking at how shots/game correlated to FOW% and there was more of a correlation.  Even that can be skewed if you're a good face-off team but take too many penalties (i.e. you won't have as many shots per game).  If you've played the game, you'd also appreciate how nice it is not to have to chase your opponents all the time (after they win the face-off).  Anyway, I found the link interesting when you play around with the categories, thanks.  

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BIGGEST mistake....taking Jake Virtanen at #6 and allowing Toronto to choose a creative centre....William Nylander who is leading the AHL in scoring, at #7..  Much harder to find a creative centre, than a "meat and potatoes" winger.....plus, since he was not playing in the CHL, he could have been sent to Utica right away to improve his game (as Toronto has done)....plus, since he is Swedish, he would have had great role models to help him along in his development....plus, teams do not get to pick that high very often, so I believe you have to utilize that for a skill pick....not, a "meat and potatoes" guy, as Benning calls Jake.  

I know many on here like to believe Jake will turn into a good player.....time will tell...however, I would be much happier having a skilled centre who is leading the AHL in scoring, likely ready to contribute very soon...as opposed to a player like Jake.  This is, in my mind, Benning's BIGGEST mistake (bigger than signing Miller to a ridiculous contract, signing Dorsett and Sbisa to contracts that are too high, trading for Sutter and resigning him before he has even played a game, trading Lack for very little,...and, of course, wasting ice time on Brandon Prust when a younger player should be playing) 

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