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Should We Relax and Lower Our Expectations?


vladimirpuck

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On 2015-12-16 at 9:04 PM, vladimirpuck said:

Just checked the standings and we're tied for 3rd in the Pacific and 1 point out of 2nd. The Sharks won tonight but they'll probably go on a losing streak starting with their next game, Mike Smith is gone for a couple of months so the Coyotes are in trouble, the Oilers look like they're going to go on a losing streak (lost to the Rangers tonight), the Flames are due for a losing streak (been lucky to squeak out a win their last 2 games), the Ducks are just as bad as us. We suck but everyone else in the Pacific, except the Kings, does too. I'm thinking if we continue to play the way we have been playing we could still make the playoffs. So, if we don't win every game but maybe once in a while mixed in with an OT loss here and there we'll be okay and have a great chance of making the playoffs. I think if we lower our expectations it would be more enjoyable to watch them play and we'd still get to see them make the playoffs. Look at the NFC East in football the top 3 teams are 6-7, the top 2 teams in the AFC South are 6-7, most likely the top teams in those 2 divisions will end up at .500 or under .500. A crappy record doesn't always mean we won't make the playoffs. Heck, the Lions made the CFL playoffs with a record of 7-11!

Many here should relax and lower their expectations and just enjoy watching the Sedins continue to defy age. Watch the emergence of Ben Hutton, Bo Horvat, Baer finally showing his offensive talent, McCann, Markstrom, slowly emerge as our new core.

In addition, many should stop expecting players like Virtanen to step in and impress them like Pavel Bure and accept that most players in the NHL take years to develop into solid consistent pro's and that means you can't assess them at 19 years old as to what their trajectory will be, especially when Virtanen for instance would have likely ended up in the AHL if he was eligible (something many here seem to ignore when bashing him).

People need to accept reality, there is no tank, you don't create a winning culture by telling players to throw games or by trading off players who can help young players learn how to be pro's. You don't create a winning culture by losing, rather you learn to lose that way not learn to win. People need to accept we are in 'transition', look ahead 4 years and think of our core, supplemented by a few free agents and we will have a highly competitive team, with our without Austin Matthews.

I am estatic to see the Sedins still playing at this level, it gives you something to wow at every night, I love watching the kids develop with a view of what they may become as a group in the future. If people would watch with that perspective, many here would stop whining and learn to enjoy the game for what it is, a game.

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Injuries have hurt us quite a bit and especially on defense with Sbisa and Hamhuis gone on the back end we have to have some inexperienced guys playing.  Watching Weber play D is painful and when we are forced to put him in the line-up that is when you know your in trouble.

I would relax right now lots of season left and with the amount of teams doing bad we still have a descent chance at the bottom few spots in the playoffs.  Who knows what will happen, but I think we should be trying to dish out as many old players as we can regardless of how we are doing mid season and get as young as possible.  

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On 16/12/2015 at 9:11 PM, chilliwiggins said:

only 1 team in the league has less wins then the canucks, they have won 11 games ,Toronto 10, so if you haven't drastically lowered your expectations substantially lower then Bennings , then your either another of bennings yes men, or your medicated.

Maybe YOU should try some medication....I think realistic fans know that whether we are "re-tooling on the fly" or undertaking a true re-build, there will be hard times ahead. 

I don't think we yet have a large enough sample size to accuse Benning of being surrounded by "yes men".  But maybe, just maybe, he has some happy pills for you....

 

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I would still say lower your expectations as this team has soo many injuries and obvious lack of depth on defence from the start of the season.

This team will be much better next season if they get an Auston Matthews; additionally this team will have a lot of free cap space this off season from expiring deals to get some good players.

I think Horvat, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton will all be much better next season and we will also have other young guys like Gaunce, Shinkaruk, and Grenier pushing for spots. I think we'll see Vrbata and prust traded at the deadline, and Higgins traded at the draft if not at the deadline as well. 

I hope this team doesn't go out and overpay for Lucic; We have a much bigger need for a top 4 defenceman (or 2). 

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4 minutes ago, Lui's Knob said:

To be competitive they need a new coach and a high draft pick ready to contribute immediately. 

 

Then an trade a blue chip for a blue chip Dman they desperately need (see Nashville)

Why blame a coach that made the playoffs on his first year of coaching while doing so on a team that everybody knows is lackluster when healthy but to top that of has been riddled with major injuries throughout the whole year...

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Our focus needs to be on next season as the start of something good, we will compete more next year. This year is about development and acquiring picks at the deadline. The good is, Markstrom, Bo, Baer, McCann, Sutter and hopefully more to come in the second half of the season. And that we are seeing the twins still have it and likely will for some time to come.

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Lower our expectations?  They can't be any lower for me.  The current regime is turning us into the Maple Leafs, middle of the pack team that refuses to rebuild.  Oh yeah but wait, we have to teach McCann and Hutton how to play in a winning environment. And by winning environment, we mean being 29th in wins. 

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22 hours ago, vinnymack said:

Injuries have hurt us quite a bit and especially on defense with Sbisa and Hamhuis gone on the back end we have to have some inexperienced guys playing.  Watching Weber play D is painful and when we are forced to put him in the line-up that is when you know your in trouble.

I would relax right now lots of season left and with the amount of teams doing bad we still have a descent chance at the bottom few spots in the playoffs.  Who knows what will happen, but I think we should be trying to dish out as many old players as we can regardless of how we are doing mid season and get as young as possible.  

Losing Sutter created bigger hole than people are also stating. Many criticize JB constantly and now see how important getting Sutter was for this team. I agree as well on Sbisa (again another one many bashers like to criticize). We were playing pretty well with our full team, the issue is we have alot of youth, and now a number of journeymen (ahl/nh tweeners like Weber) playing key roles that they are not capable of (they are depth and being forced to play key roles, as are the youth who are not ready for that responsibility).

I don't want to see a tank but I also wouldn't be upset to see us in the running for Matthews, sell of Vrbata, Higgins, Prust at the deadline for picks and then sign Lucic in the offseason. Imagine if we actually got Matthews? He's NHL ready, all of a sudden our team is a contender again and we have riches down the middle with Hank/Sutter/Bo/McCann/Matthews

Its indeed ironic to see many who said we should sell off all the vets and just play youth, seeing what happens when we're forced to put youth in positions they are not ready for ....we lose lot.

Now those same people are complaining again, yet this is what they wanted, but they don't like the result and won't admit that they were wrong in wanting our youth thrown to the wolves.

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2 minutes ago, McCannon said:

Losing Sutter created bigger hole than people are also stating. Many criticize JB constantly and now see how important getting Sutter was for this team. I agree as well on Sbisa (again another one many bashers like to criticize). We were playing pretty well with our full team, the issue is we have alot of youth, and now a number of journeymen (ahl/nh tweeners like Weber) playing key roles that they are not capable of (they are depth and being forced to play key roles, as are the youth who are not ready for that responsibility).

I don't want to see a tank but I also wouldn't be upset to see us in the running for Matthews, sell of Vrbata, Higgins, Prust at the deadline for picks and then sign Lucic in the offseason. Imagine if we actually got Matthews? He's NHL ready, all of a sudden our team is a contender again and we have riches down the middle with Hank/Sutter/Bo/McCann/Matthews

How about we get Matthews and Pulijjarvi?  I don't know how, damn it would be like '99 again!

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18 minutes ago, Alflives said:

How about we get Matthews and Pulijjarvi?  I don't know how, damn it would be like '99 again!

I Don't know how we'd pull that off. That would mean #1 (which may be possible if we keep playing this way and sutter / hammer / sbisa are out for much longer, or god forbid one of the twins gets hurt)....To be honest, any combined injuries to our core hurt us significantly due to our lack of depth that's ready to step up....So I see us with a distinct possibility of getting one of those guys but not both...I just don't see whom CBJ/Toronto/Carolina/Edmonton (the likely cohorts) would want from us for that pick (likely Bo which is a non starter). Trading certainty for uncertainty is never a wise move.

I'd rather see us hopefully get one of those 2 if we are lucky enough to (or bad enough) and hopefully packaging Vrbata and Hammer together to a team looking to go all in, like Washington or even Florida the way the are playing.

Washington will really want to go for it this year in my view and we have ALOT of leverage if we offer both of those players to them. Those 2 give them so much depth they become a shoe in to be favored for the Cup.

Hamhuis (cup and olympic experience, leader and a great shut down dman if playing with a good partner). He can still play but we're so weak defensively and he can't carry the team anymore but we've seen how he plays with a quality dman at the world championships - he is still a strong #2/3.)

Vrbata with a real set up man will score there is no doubt.

So how about Hammer/Vrbata/ and Biega for depth for Washington's number 1 and Bowey? Maybe they bite. They know their window is now...and this is the best they've played as a group.

We then move players like Higgins/Prust to teams looking for 3rd/4th line grit for 3rd rounders

We would have a top 5 pick, Washington's 1st, Our high second, a second potentially from CBJ, Anaheim second, and I think another? That's potentially 5 picks in a very deep draft in the first 45 or so picks...the shelves would be fully restocked if we draft well.

I suspect this is what we will see (or something close pick wise)....debatable if we could pry Bowey but really would depend on how bad Washington wants to go for it this year...I think they will go hard...

 

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44 minutes ago, McCannon said:

I Don't know how we'd pull that off. That would mean #1 (which may be possible if we keep playing this way and sutter / hammer / sbisa are out for much longer, or god forbid one of the twins gets hurt)....To be honest, any combined injuries to our core hurt us significantly due to our lack of depth that's ready to step up....So I see us with a distinct possibility of getting one of those guys but not both...I just don't see whom CBJ/Toronto/Carolina/Edmonton (the likely cohorts) would want from us for that pick (likely Bo which is a non starter). Trading certainty for uncertainty is never a wise move.

I'd rather see us hopefully get one of those 2 if we are lucky enough to (or bad enough) and hopefully packaging Vrbata and Hammer together to a team looking to go all in, like Washington or even Florida the way the are playing.

Washington will really want to go for it this year in my view and we have ALOT of leverage if we offer both of those players to them. Those 2 give them so much depth they become a shoe in to be favored for the Cup.

Hamhuis (cup and olympic experience, leader and a great shut down dman if playing with a good partner). He can still play but we're so weak defensively and he can't carry the team anymore but we've seen how he plays with a quality dman at the world championships - he is still a strong #2/3.)

Vrbata with a real set up man will score there is no doubt.

So how about Hammer/Vrbata/ and Biega for depth for Washington's number 1 and Bowey? Maybe they bite. They know their window is now...and this is the best they've played as a group.

We then move players like Higgins/Prust to teams looking for 3rd/4th line grit for 3rd rounders

We would have a top 5 pick, Washington's 1st, Our high second, a second potentially from CBJ, Anaheim second, and I think another? That's potentially 5 picks in a very deep draft in the first 45 or so picks...the shelves would be fully restocked if we draft well.

I suspect this is what we will see (or something close pick wise)....debatable if we could pry Bowey but really would depend on how bad Washington wants to go for it this year...I think they will go hard...

 

I really like your insight.  It's not wild and crazy like mine, but actually makes sense - like it could happen in the real world.  When our team is clearly not very good, the only hope we fans have is in our prospects.  You helped this old fan a lot by sharing your idea.  :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Am I the only that thinks we need several top 5 draft picks in a row, to be true contenders again?

I watch the canucks now adays just for the young guys and hope we lose but they do well lol

NVM I'm not the only one... Just wish the Aquaweenies would see the same way... Instead of playoff revenue $$$

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20 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

Lower our expectations?  They can't be any lower for me.  The current regime is turning us into the Maple Leafs, middle of the pack team that refuses to rebuild.  Oh yeah but wait, we have to teach McCann and Hutton how to play in a winning environment. And by winning environment, we mean being 29th in wins. 

I think you must have missed the memo, Daniel said, " we are now playing in a don't lose in overtime environment"

that is what I like about the Canucks, always on the cutting edge of new trends.

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15 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Biega?  Sorry Carlie, he's a keeper

Ya but he's 26? 27? And to pry a player like Bowey we'd need to give a decent dman back. I don't think we'd want to part with anyone like Pedan, clearly not Hutton or Tanev, and likely not Brisebois so he 'sweetens' the pot so to speak. we would be asking for a first rounder and a solid potential top 4 for 2 rentals (that is alot)...the reason I think washington might bite as I said is it should be time for them to go all in now...

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1 hour ago, McCannon said:

Ya but he's 26? 27? And to pry a player like Bowey we'd need to give a decent dman back. I don't think we'd want to part with anyone like Pedan, clearly not Hutton or Tanev, and likely not Brisebois so he 'sweetens' the pot so to speak. we would be asking for a first rounder and a solid potential top 4 for 2 rentals (that is alot)...the reason I think washington might bite as I said is it should be time for them to go all in now...

Biega is 27 and just starting to get NHL games.  He has 20 NHL games to date.  We like him but my guess is that he is almost completely unknown around the league.  

The flip side is that Madison Bowey may be a fine prospect but he is only 20 with exactly zero games in the NHL.  He put up some nice numbers with the Kelowna Rockets last year.

I get your thinking but honestly, one of Hammer or Vrbata would be plenty.  These players should yield first round picks or a decent prospect like Bowey.  I would prefer a player like Bowey over a pick. 

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4 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Biega is 27 and just starting to get NHL games.  He has 20 NHL games to date.  We like him but my guess is that he is almost completely unknown around the league.  

The flip side is that Madison Bowey may be a fine prospect but he is only 20 with exactly zero games in the NHL.  He put up some nice numbers with the Kelowna Rockets last year.

I get your thinking but honestly, one of Hammer or Vrbata would be plenty.  These players should yield first round picks or a decent prospect like Bowey.  I would prefer a player like Bowey over a pick. 

I would hope so but they are both rentals...not sure if they would but if they do I would be happy with keeping Biega, I think he is a terrific player and could be a big leader for this team in the future if they give him the time he deserves (ie kick weber to the curb).

Just thinking from the other side's perspective - that being said - getting 'both' may be enough of a sweetener not only because it makes them incredibly tough to beat, but also prevents a potential competitor from the cup from getting one of them ...so really would be how Benning uses his leverage - and unfortunately he hasn't been the best at trading thus far. Drafting, great, trading, not so much.

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1 minute ago, McCannon said:

I would hope so but they are both rentals...not sure if they would but if they do I would be happy with keeping Biega, I think he is a terrific player and could be a big leader for this team in the future if they give him the time he deserves (ie kick weber to the curb).

Just thinking from the other side's perspective - that being said - getting 'both' may be enough of a sweetener not only because it makes them incredibly tough to beat, but also prevents a potential competitor from the cup from getting one of them ...so really would be how Benning uses his leverage - and unfortunately he hasn't been the best at trading thus far. Drafting, great, trading, not so much.

Don't get me wrong.  I said one of Vrbata or Hamhuis.  Not both.

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