Ownership, management, and the 2014 offseason

[Johnny Torts]

Ownership & Management

Ownership won't let Vancouver go full rebuild, but what does that mean? Essentially, trading the Sedins, which isn't something most of this fan base wants anyways. Sell a Higgins, a Burrows, ownership won't bat an eye towards management. That being said, ownership  ....

[...listening to tsn1040 and a caller bring up trading the sedins, shouldn't happen, not going to happen. If they still have more in the tank come to the end of their contract, they'd be great secondary scorers.] 

Sorry that I got sidetracked, but ownership needs to understand that we lack depth but JB is quickly stacking our cupboards ie. Our recent 7th rounder Tate Olsen, he is looking like he can turn into a player after what he is doing this season(I bring him up because I believe he's a find in the 7th round, not because I think he is a top prospect of ours). If baertchi can be a young Hansen (good 3rd liner, 2nd plug) which is much more probable than those wanting or expecting him to net 2 goals a night, then it's a win. I'd gamble and pick subban every day of the week. Shinkaruk is showing that there were reasons he was rated top10 in his draft year and moved down, not up, b/c of obvious reasons. 

Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. 

Again, with a strong 2016 draft, a couple FA signings, we will have more depth, push for a playoff spot. There will be some rivalry between Jared and Bo as to who is number 1/2 in the future, it should push them beyond their limits.

To the people that scream "Fire Willie"

The 2014 off-season, everyone knew we would be bottom feeders, those were the expectations. But, we overachieved. We really did. With the twins coming off seasons where everyone said "this is expected, they're older and they can't produce as much", they had a good season under Willie, we relied on a rookie centre to take critical draws because he was our best face off man at that point, and a horrendous D ( Bieksa, Weber, Sbisa ) we did much better than we should have. Did management think they'd do this well or were they expecting a competitive tank? 

Willie is great, he's been given an AHL line up with a couple superstars and a couple prospects and he's trying his best to win. 

 

Look at all the positives! There is a TON of them. The true Canucks fans know that if we aren't already, we will be headed in the right direction with JB because he understands how important it is. Now they are young right now, but we will have those call ups necessary to stay competitive as early as next season with Subban Fedun Pedan all being a year older.

Thanks for reading guys and I hope this lets some of you stay positive.

Happy Holidays. 

[SaintPatrick33]

We have lots of positives coming up, and I enjoyed the overall theme of your thread. 

This offseason should be the most pivotal in 15 years, tons of cap room, and hopefully a nice pick in the draft. If we get a bluechipper who can produce instantly, this team can become exciting again. Our current prospect group will take a few years to develop, but a top 3 pick could change that. 

[Pickly]

The one thing that disappoints me the most is the lack of effort and heart we as fans have seen from the team during so many games this season. I understand that there are dark days ahead and I am fully on board with a rebuild. However, it seems as if outside the Sedins, Hansen, and maybe Miller this team has already given up on the season. They can lose every single game this year but as long as I see an honest effort from everybody then it gives me a reason to believe and have hope for the future. When you are lucky to have half the team show up on any given night it really makes you wonder.

[vinnymack]

People under estimate how valuable Sutter is and no ones mentions him being out of lineup.  He's a good penalty killer wins faceoffs and was a good pick up, unfortunately he got injured.  Now Hamhuis out and maybe Hendrik Sedin (let's hope not serious or long), our team could be in more trouble.

I love my Canucks and always will no matter what, but so far it's been a painful year to watch.  Anyone who complains about the Sedins and wants them gone, to me are fans who truly don't appreciate them.  They've played there hearts out here, always put up good numbers, have great attitudes and love the city of Vancouver.  They've played even better this year than previous years lately and in all honesty they are the furthest thing from our main problem on the team.  If we traded the Sedins away now and got younger players, it's very unlikely we'd get players we will ever amount of the skill set they bring or we'd only get what we hope would end up being valuably enough players in return which is doubtingly.  Sedins have never been our problem, for the most part it's been the team around them.   The second we lose the Sedins unless it's for substantial return our team will drop like flies in the standings and who knows how we'd be for the next few years.   

Here is a list of who needs to go in my opinion, Hamhuis, Higgins, Vrbata, Burrows and possibly Edler (although he is the best player out of all those names in my opinion and having a pretty good year).  If we can get something for any of those guys that is what we should be doing, Vrbata has some value, Hamhuis for sure, maybe Burrows for experience to a contending team.  Higgins probably won't get much of a return, but the way he is playing, his spot is valuable to a younger player because they couldn't play much worse.  

Those are players I would definitely trade if you could get descent value back or young up & comers.  One other name I would consider is Hansen, I really like the player and think he can be valuable with  great speed, good grit/forcheck/hard working and a good shot and is playing really well, but sometimes when you are playing this well it's enough for teams to pay more than a guy might be worth, Bennig should at least shop him.  I'd shop Miller even though he has been pretty good this year, to me he's not a game changing goaltender or one who is going to carry your team on his shoulders or steal you a game often.  As I said he's played well this year, but I find he plays well just about every game, but no matter how well,  often lets in that stinker or weak goal that most goalies should save and let's us down in some way.  So far from what I've seen Markstrom looks like the better goalie and has had better outings for the most part, just our team has let him down badly, like tonight 2-0 loss to Philli.  Poor Marky played very well no support.   

I would keep the Sedins of course, Sutter, Dorsett, Prust, Mccann, Baertschi, Horvat, Virtanen, Hansen unless we get something worth taking for him and Markstrom.  I would do what you can to trade the rest or at least listen to offers.  Let a good portion of the young players play this year, learn what it takes to play at the NHL level, if we end continuing to do bad like we are, at least they will get experience.  I honestly don't think we could do much worse. Those are my thoughts, I will never stop loving our team and of course I don't want to lose, but at this point I think it's time starting shaking things up and really go after youth and do whatever we can to dish out the old.  

My last thoughts are that Willie has done a fantastic job with the Sedins getting them to play like they did when AV was there, he's getting a lot out of hansen, dorsett, prust, but when it comes to Horvat and some of the other young players with the exception of Mccann, it's been disappointing.   Horvat looked so good last season and really promising, but this year has just not looked the same.  If our team is going to turn around our young players need to get some confidence and unless Willie can learn how to help them get there, even though he's a good coach he might not be the guy for the job on our team.   

 

[Johnny Torts]

40 minutes ago, vinnymack said:

People under estimate how valuable Sutter is and no ones mentions him being out of lineup.  He's a good penalty killer wins faceoffs and was a good pick up, unfortunately he got injured.  Now Hamhuis out and maybe Hendrik Sedin (let's hope not serious or long), our team could be in more trouble.

I love my Canucks and always will no matter what, but so far it's been a painful year to watch.  Anyone who complains about the Sedins and wants them gone, to me are fans who truly don't appreciate them.  They've played there hearts out here, always put up good numbers, have great attitudes and love the city of Vancouver.  They've played even better this year than previous years lately and in all honesty they are the furthest thing from our main problem on the team.  If we traded the Sedins away now and got younger players, it's very unlikely we'd get players we will ever amount of the skill set they bring or we'd only get what we hope would end up being valuably enough players in return which is doubtingly.  Sedins have never been our problem, for the most part it's been the team around them.   The second we lose the Sedins unless it's for substantial return our team will drop like flies in the standings and who knows how we'd be for the next few years.   

Here is a list of who needs to go in my opinion, Hamhuis, Higgins, Vrbata, Burrows and possibly Edler (although he is the best player out of all those names in my opinion and having a pretty good year).  If we can get something for any of those guys that is what we should be doing, Vrbata has some value, Hamhuis for sure, maybe Burrows for experience to a contending team.  Higgins probably won't get much of a return, but the way he is playing, his spot is valuable to a younger player because they couldn't play much worse.  

Those are players I would definitely trade if you could get descent value back or young up & comers.  One other name I would consider is Hansen, I really like the player and think he can be valuable with  great speed, good grit/forcheck/hard working and a good shot and is playing really well, but sometimes when you are playing this well it's enough for teams to pay more than a guy might be worth, Bennig should at least shop him.  I'd shop Miller even though he has been pretty good this year, to me he's not a game changing goaltender or one who is going to carry your team on his shoulders or steal you a game often.  As I said he's played well this year, but I find he plays well just about every game, but no matter how well,  often lets in that stinker or weak goal that most goalies should save and let's us down in some way.  So far from what I've seen Markstrom looks like the better goalie and has had better outings for the most part, just our team has let him down badly, like tonight 2-0 loss to Philli.  Poor Marky played very well no support.   

I would keep the Sedins of course, Sutter, Dorsett, Prust, Mccann, Baertschi, Horvat, Virtanen, Hansen unless we get something worth taking for him and Markstrom.  I would do what you can to trade the rest or at least listen to offers.  Let a good portion of the young players play this year, learn what it takes to play at the NHL level, if we end continuing to do bad like we are, at least they will get experience.  I honestly don't think we could do much worse. Those are my thoughts, I will never stop loving our team and of course I don't want to lose, but at this point I think it's time starting shaking things up and really go after youth and do whatever we can to dish out the old.  

My last thoughts are that Willie has done a fantastic job with the Sedins getting them to play like they did when AV was there, he's getting a lot out of hansen, dorsett, prust, but when it comes to Horvat and some of the other young players with the exception of Mccann, it's been disappointing.   Horvat looked so good last season and really promising, but this year has just not looked the same.  If our team is going to turn around our young players need to get some confidence and unless Willie can learn how to help them get there, even though he's a good coach he might not be the guy for the job on our team.   

 

Horvat will be amazing for us man. Patience is key when it comes to these guys. We shopped for Sutter because we need time for Horvat, but he is being pressured way too much this early. Remember, he's not a generational player ready to step in right after draft, development is crucial. 

[PhillipBlunt]

Best thing about this season is that the dead weight on this team will be removed finally.

If Benning keeps Burrows, Higgins, Vrbata, or Weber after this season,  he's clearly insane. 

[Johnny Torts]

15 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Best thing about this season is that the dead weight on this team will be removed finally.

If Benning keeps Burrows, Higgins, Vrbata, or Weber after this season,  he's clearly insane. 

Yes, this.

[smokes]

I'm interested in a few things.  Edmonton is a great example of why veteren leadership is needed on a team. After all the high draft picks, they are still in the position they are in right now. The team nneds the veterens to help growing of the young players so I vote to keep a majority of them.

 

1) Is Hamhuis resigned or another veterin takes his place.

2) Markstrome goes against Bennings beliefs about young goaltenders, does Miller get resigned?

3) Draft position and who gets drafted.

[RonMexico]

3 minutes ago, smokes said:

I'm interested in a few things.  Edmonton is a great example of why veteren leadership is needed on a team. After all the high draft picks, they are still in the position they are in right now. The team nneds the veterens to help growing of the young players so I vote to keep a majority of them.

 

1) Is Hamhuis resigned or another veterin takes his place.

2) Markstrome goes against Bennings beliefs about young goaltenders, does Miller get resigned?

3) Draft position and who gets drafted.

 

I don't think EDM's problem has been lack of leadership. They haven't been able to keep the puck out of their net. No amount of veteran leadership can keep the puck out of your own net.

Which seems like the Canucks problem lately too. It's great to have veteran leaders, but when they don't produce and they can't keep the puck out of our net, then what exactly are they providing?

[appleboy]

We need  to spend the cap space on veteran defense. It would be nice to see a player like Tkachuk,Puljujarvi or maybe Matthews.

Our defense is horrible.

[Johnny Torts]

3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

We need  to spend the cap space on veteran defense. It would be nice to see a player like Tkachuk,Puljujarvi or maybe Matthews.

Our defense is horrible.

Yeah, My only concern is how over priced FA is. I wonder if Franson would have signed here for a little cheaper. 

[5nothincanucksohno]

15 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

Ownership & Management

Ownership won't let Vancouver go full rebuild, but what does that mean? Essentially, trading the Sedins, which isn't something most of this fan base wants anyways. Sell a Higgins, a Burrows, ownership won't bat an eye towards management. That being said, ownership  ....

[...listening to tsn1040 and a caller bring up trading the sedins, shouldn't happen, not going to happen. If they still have more in the tank come to the end of their contract, they'd be great secondary scorers.] 

Sorry that I got sidetracked, but ownership needs to understand that we lack depth but JB is quickly stacking our cupboards ie. Our recent 7th rounder Tate Olsen, he is looking like he can turn into a player after what he is doing this season(I bring him up because I believe he's a find in the 7th round, not because I think he is a top prospect of ours). If baertchi can be a young Hansen (good 3rd liner, 2nd plug) which is much more probable than those wanting or expecting him to net 2 goals a night, then it's a win. I'd gamble and pick subban every day of the week. Shinkaruk is showing that there were reasons he was rated top10 in his draft year and moved down, not up, b/c of obvious reasons. 

Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. 

Again, with a strong 2016 draft, a couple FA signings, we will have more depth, push for a playoff spot. There will be some rivalry between Jared and Bo as to who is number 1/2 in the future, it should push them beyond their limits.

To the people that scream "Fire Willie"

The 2014 off-season, everyone knew we would be bottom feeders, those were the expectations. But, we overachieved. We really did. With the twins coming off seasons where everyone said "this is expected, they're older and they can't produce as much", they had a good season under Willie, we relied on a rookie centre to take critical draws because he was our best face off man at that point, and a horrendous D ( Bieksa, Weber, Sbisa ) we did much better than we should have. Did management think they'd do this well or were they expecting a competitive tank? 

Willie is great, he's been given an AHL line up with a couple superstars and a couple prospects and he's trying his best to win. 

 

Look at all the positives! There is a TON of them. The true Canucks fans know that if we aren't already, we will be headed in the right direction with JB because he understands how important it is. Now they are young right now, but we will have those call ups necessary to stay competitive as early as next season with Subban Fedun Pedan all being a year older.

Thanks for reading guys and I hope this lets some of you stay positive.

Happy Holidays. 

Agreed, people need to relax...it is all part of the cycle. Hopefully Benning can continue to draft as he has and they become contenders in a couple years.

[coastal1]

16 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

Ownership & Management

Ownership won't let Vancouver go full rebuild, but what does that mean? Essentially, trading the Sedins, which isn't something most of this fan base wants anyways. Sell a Higgins, a Burrows, ownership won't bat an eye towards management. That being said, ownership  ....

[...listening to tsn1040 and a caller bring up trading the sedins, shouldn't happen, not going to happen. If they still have more in the tank come to the end of their contract, they'd be great secondary scorers.] 

Sorry that I got sidetracked, but ownership needs to understand that we lack depth but JB is quickly stacking our cupboards ie. Our recent 7th rounder Tate Olsen, he is looking like he can turn into a player after what he is doing this season(I bring him up because I believe he's a find in the 7th round, not because I think he is a top prospect of ours). If baertchi can be a young Hansen (good 3rd liner, 2nd plug) which is much more probable than those wanting or expecting him to net 2 goals a night, then it's a win. I'd gamble and pick subban every day of the week. Shinkaruk is showing that there were reasons he was rated top10 in his draft year and moved down, not up, b/c of obvious reasons. 

Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. 

Again, with a strong 2016 draft, a couple FA signings, we will have more depth, push for a playoff spot. There will be some rivalry between Jared and Bo as to who is number 1/2 in the future, it should push them beyond their limits.

To the people that scream "Fire Willie"

The 2014 off-season, everyone knew we would be bottom feeders, those were the expectations. But, we overachieved. We really did. With the twins coming off seasons where everyone said "this is expected, they're older and they can't produce as much", they had a good season under Willie, we relied on a rookie centre to take critical draws because he was our best face off man at that point, and a horrendous D ( Bieksa, Weber, Sbisa ) we did much better than we should have. Did management think they'd do this well or were they expecting a competitive tank? 

Willie is great, he's been given an AHL line up with a couple superstars and a couple prospects and he's trying his best to win. 

 

Look at all the positives! There is a TON of them. The true Canucks fans know that if we aren't already, we will be headed in the right direction with JB because he understands how important it is. Now they are young right now, but we will have those call ups necessary to stay competitive as early as next season with Subban Fedun Pedan all being a year older.

Thanks for reading guys and I hope this lets some of you stay positive.

Happy Holidays. 

you lost me right there: Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. Is punching a guy's fist with your face an great skill?

[DeNiro]

Basically we're where we were at in 2007-08 just before Gillis took over more or less.

That year we were decimated by injuries and ended up finishing with the 10th overall pick. After that Nonis was fired and Gillis was hired in the summer. He had lots of cap space and a good draft pick.

This season seems to be going the same way, except we should finish with a higher pick, and I don't see Benning getting the axe.

It's not a bad place to be though. We've still got the Sedins to mentor the young guys, and if we can sign a few more vets around age 27-30 they can carry the torch going forward as we fill in the gaps with young players coming up. Not to mention dumping some more contracts like Miller, Higgins, and possibly Burrows we'll have tons of room to reinvent this team.

Maybe we can even offer Sundin 20 million to come out of retirement! 

[Johnny Torts]

36 minutes ago, coastal1 said:

you lost me right there: Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. Is punching a guy's fist with your face an great skill?

He skates hard to the corners and gets the puck in front of the net. Was great for Horvat last season and McCann early this season. 

[coastal1]

1 hour ago, Johnny Torts said:

He skates hard to the corners and gets the puck in front of the net. Was great for Horvat last season and McCann early this season. 

Who is he great for now? A player of his skill! I will admit he is rather fun to watch, in that funny way, you know.

[Johnny Torts]

5 minutes ago, coastal1 said:

Who is he great for now? A player of his skill! I will admit he is rather fun to watch, in that funny way, you know.

He's playing with Prust and Cracknell now though...

You DO know I'm referring to Dorsett as a skilled fourth liner not a top 6 right? Just wanted to clear that up for ya. 

[coastal1]

1 minute ago, Johnny Torts said:

He's playing with Prust and Cracknell now though...

You DO know I'm referring to Dorsett as a skilled fourth liner not a top 6 right? Just wanted to clear that up for ya. 

I know what you mean, and point well taken, fourth liners are on the fourth line for a reason! The problem right now is the Canucks have 2 fourth lines!

[vinnymack]

On 18/12/2015 at 2:35 AM, Johnny Torts said:

Horvat will be amazing for us man. Patience is key when it comes to these guys. We shopped for Sutter because we need time for Horvat, but he is being pressured way too much this early. Remember, he's not a generational player ready to step in right after draft, development is crucial. 

I definitely believe however the coach does make a difference too in how you get players going and im not sure if Willie is able to do the job of getting the younger players playing the best they can 

 

[ice orca]

On 12/18/2015 at 3:35 PM, coastal1 said:

you lost me right there: Dorsett! What heart, what skill for a fourth liner that doesn't get the attention for his plays. Is punching a guy's fist with your face an great skill?

Dorsett is great, he even gets more ice time in the 3rd period than the Twins when we are trailing.