Nave Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: Games evolve, but plus/minus is a good indication of how dominant a player was during his era. Nic Lidstrom was always a top plus player, until the end of his career. The leagues truly best players dominate plus/minus. IMHAO. Plus 124 shows how great Orr was during that era. Well Orr was like a man playing amongst boys. Way ahead of his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Just now, NaveJoseph said: Well Orr was like a man playing amongst boys. Way ahead of his time. I agree. That's why I like Eric Karlsson. His offencive instincts remind me of Bobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: I agree. That's why I like Eric Karlsson. His offencive instincts remind me of Bobby. Yeah Karlsson is a lot like Orr. Hope he doesn't have the same knee problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 11 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said: Yeah Karlsson is a lot like Orr. Hope he doesn't have the same knee problems. Ya, We only got to see Bobby for such a short period. Who was the idiot that stomped on Karlsson? We could have lost seeing a fabulous talent right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Just now, Alflives said: Ya, We only got to see Bobby for such a short period. Who was the idiot that stomped on Karlsson? We could have lost seeing a fabulous talent right there. Orr had knee problems before he entered the league. I know people that knew him. The fact he played that long is a testament to his toughness, especially cause his style of play put so much stress on his left knee--and he never changed that. A guy with such balky knees should not have been able to skate that fluidly. Kind of reminds me of Forsberg. I was worried that Karlsson was not tough enough to keep up in the NHL, but he's responded with toughness and leadership. Respect to him. (and that idiot was Cooke. It was Cooke...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 2 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said: Orr had knee problems before he entered the league. I know people that knew him. The fact he played that long is a testament to his toughness, especially cause his style of play put so much stress on his left knee--and he never changed that. A guy with such balky knees should not have been able to skate that fluidly. Kind of reminds me of Forsberg. I was worried that Karlsson was not tough enough to keep up in the NHL, but he's responded with toughness and leadership. Respect to him. (and that idiot was Cooke. It was Cooke...) I met Bobby when I was in university. We were travelling, and bumped into him at an airport. Some of the players got their hockey jackets signed. I just wanted to shake his hand. I remember being really surprised how big and strong his hands were, for a guy who really was not that big. He was super nice too: very accommodating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 6 hours ago, Quoted said: but yes, +/- , especially over shorter periods, isn't the ultimate measure of a player. Agreed. I don't think it's the best stat to judge people, but it should have some merit towards the end of season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apple Juice Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 4 hours ago, Alflives said: Ya, We only got to see Bobby for such a short period. Who was the idiot that stomped on Karlsson? We could have lost seeing a fabulous talent right there. Was Matt Cooke I believe. But it wasn't on purpose. I'm not defending the guy but IIRC, it's a normal hockey play that had a bad result. He lifted his skate up to try and stop the puck from going around the boards. Just unfortunate he stepped on Karlsson's leg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 +/- is a flawed statistic that should not be used unless you put it into context. A great player could be a career minus while a fringe NHLer could have a high career +/-. It depends on a variety of factors like usage, the QOC and the quality of one's linemates. Also the quality of the team one plays for. And even just pure luck, Dylan Larkin was leading the league in +/- and Wings fans were hyping him like crazy. Upon further examination though, Larkin's PDO was really high explaining his high +/-. Basically when Larkin stepped on the ice his team shooting % was extremely high and his goaltender also played well beyond his average save %. That is unsustainable in the long run, the PDO will eventually regress to the mean. That is the reason why analytics has predicted that both the Colorado Avalanche, Calgary Flames and Toronto Maple Leafs would regress after their surprise playoff berths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 13 hours ago, Alflives said: Games evolve, but plus/minus is a good indication of how dominant a player was during his era. Nic Lidstrom was always a top plus player, until the end of his career. The leagues truly best players dominate plus/minus. IMHAO. Plus 124 shows how great Orr was during that era. I don't think anyone disputes how great Orr was but it WAS a different game then. Of course hw would be a great to-day but seriously plus 124? I have my doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 13 hours ago, Alflives said: I met Bobby when I was in university. We were travelling, and bumped into him at an airport. Some of the players got their hockey jackets signed. I just wanted to shake his hand. I remember being really surprised how big and strong his hands were, for a guy who really was not that big. He was super nice too: very accommodating. I met him when I was around 14. It was the first time the Bruins came to Vancouver to play the Nuck and he was wandering downtown on game day. He smiling, shaking hands and talking to anybody that stopped him. The guy was friendly and humble as can be. If you have time check this video about Orr. Some great stories from his peers of the time. Lanny McDonald talking about playing against him as a rookie is pretty funny and Bobby Hull talking about his team Canada experience is a testament to Orr's toughness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k74iUt5bKNs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwags Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 +/- is really a statistic you can look at in hindsight. Bobby Orr was ahead of his time, hence the +124, but he also played in a different era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 2 hours ago, Qwags said: +/- is really a statistic you can look at in hindsight. Bobby Orr was ahead of his time, hence the +124, but he also played in a different era. Regardless of era +/- works the same way. For a 139 point season being +124 is an insane difference between goals for and against while he was on the ice. Gretzky had four 200+ point seasons and his best +/- for those years was +98. Paul Coffey fell one point short of Orr's record season and and was only +61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Bobby Orr was tough as nails too. Would chuck knuckles with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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