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Grading the 2015 trades. Year in review.


homersexual

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Gustav Forsling to Chicago for Adam Clendening. (C)

Forsling looks pretty good playing for Sweden at the WJC while Clendening is no where to be found (he can actually be found in Pittsburgh's press box). The Canucks are pretty slim on D-men prospect so it would have be nice to have someone that could of potentially quarterback the powerplay.

2015 2nd round (Rasmus Andersson) to Calgary for Sven Baertschi (A)

Sven has pretty good skills and is a regular 2nd-3rd liner. Good chemistry with Horvat. And he has a good cap hit at $900K.

Eddy Lack to Carolina for 2015 3rd round (Guillaume Brisebois) and 2016 7th round. (C+)

Lack has struggled in Carolina. Brisebois looks pretty solid in the Q and I don't expect a whole lot from the 7th rounder. This trade will take a year or two before we can properly evaluate.

Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim for 2016 2nd round. (B+)

Bieksa didn't have a great year last year and is an aging D-men. While it looks like the Canucks currently miss someone with his toughness and leadership skills, he had to be moved. Good on Benning to get rid of an aging vet for a 2nd rounder. 

Zack Kassian, 2016 5th round to Montreal for Brandon Prust. (A)

Why trade a tough, young skilled power forward AND a draft pick for an older, less skilled, slower player? This is a steal for Benning.

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round (from the Bieksa trade) to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter, conditional 2016 3rd round (B+)

Sutter has been good defensively and even played on the wing with the Sedins allowing McCann to get into the lineup. Bonino has struggled in Pittsburgh with only 9 pts in 35 games.

** I skipped the minor league trades.

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Gustav Forsling for Adam Clendening  (C)

We'll have to wait and see how Forsling looks in an NHL environment. I won't lose any sleep over him being traded away, though (or Clendening, for that matter)

Sven Baertschi (A)

A low-risk, high reward trade. I think Sven is just starting to unlock his potential, and I'm expecting a lot of great things from him in the near future. (hopefully as a Canuck, of course)

Eddy Lack for 3rd Rounder (B)

Hard to judge this trade just yet, but I'm happy with Miller and Markstrom as our current goalie duo (not to mention Demko is coming along nicely). I also like what I've heard about Brisebois, sounds like a good kid with some potential.

Kevin Bieksa (A-)

This was a necessary trade for the Canucks at the right time. Bieksa was a great Canuck, but the organization needs to move into a new age, and moving aging players like Bieksa is a step in the right direction. 

Zack Kassian For Brandon Prust (A)

 Not much to say about this one. Just a good trade at the right time.

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round (from the Bieksa trade) to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter, conditional 2016 3rd round (B+)

I also think this was a good trade. I was never a huge fan of Bonino, especially his softness. Sutter should be good transitional player for us as we prepare for life post-Seidn era. It's just bad luck with the whole injury. 

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If CDC had there way

59 minutes ago, homersexual said:

Gustav Forsling to Chicago for Adam Clendening. (D)

2015 2nd round (Rasmus Andersson) to Calgary for Sven Baertschi (F)

Eddy Lack to Carolina for 2015 3rd round (Guillaume Brisebois) and 2016 7th round. (F+)

Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim for 2016 2nd round. (F+)

Zack Kassian, 2016 5th round to Montreal for Brandon Prust. (F)

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round (from the Bieksa trade) to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter, conditional 2016 3rd round (F-)

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

If CDC had there way

 

 

But they don't - most of the naysayers have given up on the Canucks and have stopped posting. The ones who are still around are here to see the rest of the season.

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The first two trades shouldn't even be rated.

Forsling looks good at the Worlds, but he could very well never see a daylight in the NHL. 

Andersson looks like he's going to be a promising prospect for the Flames, he almost made the Flames' roster out of training camp. Bärtschi has been playing well lately, but he's known to be very streaky player.

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While I pretty much agree with your analysis, give or take a notch........

I would much prefer to talk about the trades he didn't make.................in order of potential return

Dan Hamhuis

Hamhuis has had a lot of injury time off in the past few years, and had shown early signs of dropping in talent level, but he was still considered a premium dman, and would have brought a handsome reward last year.......If we look back at the trade deadline, some were talking about Edmonton's 2nd 1st rounder 16 OA, as fair compensation......FF to this year and the return will be somewhat different, if at all. For me, and I know it was a lot of us, but the trade should have been made last year.........Letter Grade D

Vrbata 

Vrbata had a career year last year........buy low, sell high.........the return again would have been much easier to opposing GM's to swallow last year...........the return would have equivalent to a 1st rounder, again the same as Hamhuis........Letter Grade F

Miller

As much as I wanted to get rid of Miller, mostly cause I didn't want him in the first place, Benning was right to keep him and for that I have to give him a..................Letter Grade A

Matthais

Another career year player...............to let a buy low, sell high just walk, was just selfish IMO, but once FA, TL, JB decided not to trade Vrbata and Hamhuis, it was understandable that they kept him for the anticipated playoff run.......................Letter Grade C

Richardson

Although Richardson did not have a career year, he is a hard working journeyman, and would have been a good addition to any playoff team.......and a pending UFA, I think he would have had value, possibly a late 3rd rounder, but as with Matthais, after they decided to keep Vrbata, it was better off keeping him at that point......................Letter Grade C

 

Now many can question the If's and why's, but the returns were there in some shape or form, and should have been made..................IMO, these non-trades, are just as important as the trades Benning did make, and considering where we are right now, we would have been in a much better position for a better returns last year and this year, and much further along in our  rebuild

IMO Benning gets a fail for last years decisions....................Letter Grade D

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41 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

While I pretty much agree with your analysis, give or take a notch........

I would much prefer to talk about the trades he didn't make.................in order of potential return

Dan Hamhuis

Hamhuis has had a lot of injury time off in the past few years, and had shown early signs of dropping in talent level, but he was still considered a premium dman, and would have brought a handsome reward last year.......If we look back at the trade deadline, some were talking about Edmonton's 2nd 1st rounder 16 OA, as fair compensation......FF to this year and the return will be somewhat different, if at all. For me, and I know it was a lot of us, but the trade should have been made last year.........Letter Grade D

Vrbata 

Vrbata had a career year last year........buy low, sell high.........the return again would have been much easier to opposing GM's to swallow last year...........the return would have equivalent to a 1st rounder, again the same as Hamhuis........Letter Grade F

Miller

As much as I wanted to get rid of Miller, mostly cause I didn't want him in the first place, Benning was right to keep him and for that I have to give him a..................Letter Grade A

Matthais

Another career year player...............to let a buy low, sell high just walk, was just selfish IMO, but once FA, TL, JB decided not to trade Vrbata and Hamhuis, it was understandable that they kept him for the anticipated playoff run.......................Letter Grade C

Richardson

Although Richardson did not have a career year, he is a hard working journeyman, and would have been a good addition to any playoff team.......and a pending UFA, I think he would have had value, possibly a late 3rd rounder, but as with Matthais, after they decided to keep Vrbata, it was better off keeping him at that point......................Letter Grade C

 

Now many can question the If's and why's, but the returns were there in some shape or form, and should have been made..................IMO, these non-trades, are just as important as the trades Benning did make, and considering where we are right now, we would have been in a much better position for a better returns last year and this year, and much further along in our  rebuild

IMO Benning gets a fail for last years decisions....................Letter Grade D

Benning had the hardest decision a GM has to make last year. He had to analyze if his bubble team had what it takes to make the playoffs or not and decide if he should sell or push on.. Well he rolled the dice and guessed right, we did make the playoffs. 

The guy does not get a fail for taking a bottom feeder in transition to the playoffs.

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SUTTER TRADE  D-

I am still not convinced Sutter is even better than Bonino. Maybe he passes the "eye test" but he certainly doesn't beat Bonino at the advanced stats test.

Nick Bonino:

47.71CF%

101.13 PDO

26.04 SCF60

26.23 SCA60

10.0 HSCF60

9.21 HSCA60

40.7% Ozone starts

Brandon Sutter:

49.27 CF%

104.35 PDO

21.33 SCF60

26.23 SCA60

9.8 HSCF60

8.65 HSCA60

49.6% Ozone starts

 

Forsling trade F

Terrible, whoever pro-scouted Clendenning needs to be fired. I don't even care if it was Benning. We basically gave Chicago the better prospect.

 

Baertschi trade A

I really, really like this trade. It was a good gamble and really added a good young player with potential to our prospect pool.

 

Kassian trade C+

I hated this trade at the time. But due after all this abuse stuff surfaced I understood that he needed to go. My only critique is that we gave up a 5th.

 

Eddie Lack trade D-

Terrible trade, we had the oppertunity to move Miller and we kept the six million dollar overpaid goaltender. The only reason why Lack is having a hard time in Carolina is because their goaltender coach sucks. Anybody that knows anything about goaltenders would agree that getting rid of Lack over Miller is ridiculous.

Don't respond with "mentor" crap either. Miller bullied his backups in Buffalo, the guy does not have a good history of being a "mentor" he is a worse goaltender than Lack.

The way Miller has been playing this year too has been very, very concerning. He's playing way too aggressive and doesn't seem to be taking in Mellansons teachings.

Miller should have been traded over Lack.

 

Kevin Bieksa trade A+

Fantastic that we got that much for Bieksa. Now if only we can dump Sbisa as well.

 

 

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In all but one case I think trying to rate these trades is premature and will result in nothing but guesses or emotional reactions.

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

Gustav Forsling to Chicago for Adam Clendening. (C)

...

 

How can one judge a trade of two prospects early, when one is still in Europe and the other prospect in the NHL but mostly not playing?  Way too early to say whether this trade matters at all.

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

2015 2nd round (Rasmus Andersson) to Calgary for Sven Baertschi (A)

...

 

If it's too early to tell on the last trade, it's hilarious to think of even trying to rate this one.  We don't know how either player will turn out.  The most that one can really say is that it is looking ok so far.  (Realistically the trade can be valued when we see what contributions Baertschi ends up making for the Canucks, since the trade was for  a pick.)

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

...

Eddy Lack to Carolina for 2015 3rd round (Guillaume Brisebois) and 2016 7th round. (C+)

Lack has struggled in Carolina. Brisebois looks pretty solid in the Q and I don't expect a whole lot from the 7th rounder. This trade will take a year or two before we can properly evaluate.

 

Unless Lack or Brisebois bust really quickly, I disagree that one can properly evaluate this one in a year or two.    I think it will take longer.  The actual effect on the Canucks will depend not only on the pick they got back but how the future goalie situation in Vancouver plays out.  The other issue is that with Marcoux trying to change Lack's playing style, we can speculate but might never know whether he'd have made a solid future contribution for the Canucks.

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

...

Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim for 2016 2nd round. (B+)

Bieksa didn't have a great year last year and is an aging D-men. While it looks like the Canucks currently miss someone with his toughness and leadership skills, he had to be moved. Good on Benning to get rid of an aging vet for a 2nd rounder. 

...

Ok, I think this one can be rated.  It rates to be a good trade for the Canucks.  They got a high pick for an older player that won't be good enough to help them in a few years when they could be good enough, if they get good management and some luck, to return to being an elite team contending for championshilps.  It looks like a solid gain for the Canucks.

It's too early to judge the trade for the Ducks, but so far it isn't looking good for them.

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

...

Zack Kassian, 2016 5th round to Montreal for Brandon Prust. (A)

Why trade a tough, young skilled power forward AND a draft pick for an older, less skilled, slower player? This is a steal for Benning.

 

I'm not sure why you rated this an A and a steal for Benning.  They got rid of someone they didn't want around and he did nothing for Montreal.  Really this trade so far looks like a 5th round pick to Montreal for an aging Brandon Prust.  Not a big deal either way.  Grade C.

3 hours ago, homersexual said:

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round (from the Bieksa trade) to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter, conditional 2016 3rd round (B+)

Sutter has been good defensively and even played on the wing with the Sedins allowing McCann to get into the lineup. Bonino has struggled in Pittsburgh with only 9 pts in 35 games.

I don't understand this rating at all. 

It is easy to argue it's a terrible trade for the Canucks.  It is equally easy to argue it will be a good trade for the Canucks. 

The fact is neither the Canucks nor the Penguins have yet gotten much, if any, benefit from this trade.  That will likely change with time.

What have we seen so far of Sutter?

He's not very physical-he's finished higher in voting for the Byng than he ever has the Selke.  He's not much of a playmaker.  He's a shooter rather than a playmaker and so didn't fit well on a line with Canucks' top goal scorer from last season.  While he was in the lineup the Canucks had trouble setting lines, which I'd suggest is at least partly because he's a shoot-first guy who was expected to center a second line that needed some playmaking.  His scoring level, even after playing with the Sedins, isn't really any better than it was last season with the Pens.

In short, we have yet to see if he'll really fit the Canucks lineup and what the contributions will be.  We can speculate, but it hasn't happened yet.

He'd have been really useful the last few weeks in keeping Horvat's responsibilities down somewhat, but because of injury he hasn't been available for that.  He skates well, is responsible defensively and is good on the pk.  Also it may be unfair to Bonino but have at least the impression that Sutter is better on line changes, resulting in fewer too many men on the ice penalties.  I haven't noticed if that has been a problem in Pittsburgh this season.

The switch in picks isn't looking good for the Cancuks so far with Anaheim starting so poorly.  Clendening isn't great but he was useful during the spring injury run in Vancouver and might well have been useful during the Canucks' December injury rush.  He is looking like he'll be a marginal NHL player, so any value here is fairly small.

Bonino hasn't had a good start to the season.  He rates to be better than he has been.  Sutter has been out of the lineup much of the season so far.  Their production is similar, if only because of Sutter's injury.  Their cap hits are vastly different.  Perhaps Benning could have found some use from the difference in cap space.

Sutter may come back and fit with someone and be good.  He may not.  Bonino and Clendening may continue their poor play, or perhaps one or the other will improve-in Bonino's case all it would require would be a return to his form from 2013-14 and the start of 2014-15.  Anaheim may improve enough that the difference in draft picks is small-or they may not and it could be up to a full round.

Opinions will always vary, but I'd suggest that when the original poster gives A and B to the same trades that Gstank29 gives D and F, there's a reason.  There is more in this case behind those ratings than the difference of opinion about players.  Quite simply, it is too early to rate these trades.

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Gustav Forsling to Chicago for Adam Clendening. (E)  I never liked this move at the time, what makes it worse was JB seems to have realised his mistake (ifs, you only needed to watch Clendenning Jim) and offloaded him.

2015 2nd round (Rasmus Andersson) to Calgary for Sven Baertschi (G) We need RH D and Andersson is 6'-1 and 214 lbs jeez, I thought we were trying to get bigger.

Eddy Lack to Carolina for 2015 3rd round (Guillaume Brisebois) and 2016 7th round. (B) Markstrom was the "keeper" and Brisebois looks like a good bet.

Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim for 2016 2nd round. (B turns into D) I think trading KB has led to some decent insights into Biega and Pedan, however he gave the advantage away over the Sutter trade

Zack Kassian, 2016 5th round to Montreal for Brandon Prust. (B) This has to be a good deal as Prust has had much more effect and consistency than Kassian ever did.

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round (from the Bieksa trade) to Pittsburgh for Brandon Sutter, conditional 2016 3rd round (D) I think we overpaid despite Sutter being better than advertised. The 2nd round pick was gratuitous, not because Clendenning was any more than a dump but because the more I see Forsling the more I feel we have missed out.

 

All in all it comes back to what I said 2 or 3 weeks back. I think JB drafts well but trades badly. Whether that will help us later by other GMs knowing he doesn't try to fleece them (like Gillis) I only hope so but he is coming over as a bit soft on the trading floor for me.

 
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Was hoping he'd sell last deadline. Matthias, Richardson & Sbisa for picks.

Wanted Miller GONE. Never wanted Lemon face from the get-go. I'd rather they signed Bryzy-G, before this mediocre head-case. Markstrom & Lack would've helped each other, & I believe they eventually would have come through, in spades. We'll never know, either way.

Dump Sbisa(as mentioned) before signing that ludicrous deal. Keep Stanton at 1 mill & save 2.5 AAV. They're nearly the same anyways. Stanton's probably tougher.

For the level of team we've got, there should be AT LEAST 5 mill of open cap. Seems only the twins & Hansen are playing at the level of their renumeration.

Spending like a drunkard at Metrotown, but then lookin' like you've bought your fashion at Value Village...

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I agree with the OP's analysis for the most part, though I do have a tip...

7 hours ago, homersexual said:

...are pretty slim on D-men prospect so it would of be nice...

Would have*. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

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Sven Baertschi for 2015 2nd round pick. (A-)

All in all it was a solid trade to get a skilled forward in his early 20's to add to the mix for the next few seasons.  He has worked well with Horvat.  

Kevin Bieksa for 2016 2nd round pick (A)

When you have someone who is breaking down and you can get a returnable asset, it's definitely the wise move.  4 assists in 35-36 games fits a non-upgrade for the Ducks.  

Nick Bonino, Adam Clendening, 2016 2nd round pick (Anaheim) for Brandon Sutter and conditional 2016 3rd round pick (B)

Nothing but positives here for me, until his injury he was playing positive roles in both PK and PP.  

Zack Kassian for Brandon Prust (B)

Prust has fit in the bottom six and is an admirable locker room presence.  Zack just got traded to Edmonton and Montreal did not even invite him to their AHL affiliate.  Win-Win. 

Eddie Lack for 2015 3rd round pick (Guillaume Brisebois) and 2016 7th round pick (B-)

I am still on the practical side that while Lack may have more upside than a 35 year old Ryan Miller, it was a sensible trade considering that Markstrom has been fine as the back up.  

Gustav Forsling for Adam Clendening (D-)

The only reason that it isn't a flat out F, is because Clendening was pawned to Pittsburgh for Sutter who prior to his injury has been a solid Canuck.  Forsling still has a shot of being a complimentary 3rd-4th defensemen. 
 

 

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The trades that were made:  Forstav for Clendening - incomplete right now, and stays that way until Forstav actually makes the NHL.

2nd round for Sven - C+, but some of the recent grades are trending towards a "B"

Lack for a 3rd and a 7th - C+ also, and remains that way until Brisbois makes it or not. If he does, and Lack continues what he is (or more properly) isn't doing in Carolina, this trade becomes a definitive "B", maybe even an "A"

Kassian and 5th for Prust - "A-"; Prust has already given more trustworthy performances in his limited time here than Zack did in his complete time here. If it took sacrificing the 5th to get him outta here, so be it. And considering what Montreal did with him, this is essentially a 5th for Prust; makes it look even better.

KB for a 2nd - "A" all the way. KB had become not quite dead weight here, and to get a 2nd for that?? Wow.

Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd for Sutter and 3rd - "B-" to me. Bonino had no real place here, with the emergence of both Horvat and McCann; Clendening had no place here period. So...to me this was addition by subtraction (Bonino and Clendening) and acknowledgement that both together weren't worth Sutter straight up. The 2nd, that hurts a little, but...Benning is the GM, we at CDC are sometimes overcritical wanna-be's!!

As for trades not done, the only one I have an issue with was losing Richardson for nothing. But...this is the age of free agency, and everyone knows teams lose players without any return all the time. Benning, and the great majority of us, thought we would do better in the playoffs last year, so that justifies keeping Richardson and Matthias around, instead of asset acquisition at the trade deadline. Hindsight is 20/20, right!

 

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