[Recall] - Canucks recall Grenier

[RonMexico]

3 minutes ago, aqua59 said:

What it is about guys like guys like Higgins, Burrows and Weber? WD keeps icing them like there's no choice or little trust in his younger up and comers.

The same feeling over comes the viewer when seeing these fellows iced. That feeling of zip is gonna happen. Higgins, even if he did score last night while facing the goalie down would only have stretched WD's faith in the guy.

Another guy, Vey. Some how he's back. Sorry he's no better than last season or any other time.

I believe JB knows what he's doing I keep wondering about WD though.

All I hear is, 'WD doesn't start who I want him to start.'

[mll]

7 minutes ago, fist2face said:

Had to make room for virtanen on the roster as he joins tomorrow. Sbisa might be taken off IR tomorrow as well.

Sbisa hasn't practiced with the team yet so I doubt they already want to send Pedan back.  Kenins and Grenier were sent back for Virtanen and Baertschi who is expected to play tomorrow.

 

[fist2face]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

Sbisa hasn't practiced with the team yet so I doubt they already want to send Pedan back.  Kenins and Grenier were sent back for Virtanen and Baertschi who is expected to play tomorrow.

 

Makes sense to me. I just heard sbisa was closer than Sven at coming back

[Guest]

Kenins, I can see going back down. He hasn't been the same "pitbull" he was last year. But...even though Higgins played better last night, that is only compared to the awful of the remainder of the year. Even if it is the off wing for him, I would rather see Grenier slot in against Carolina than Higgins. I guess maybe we have to, because of the sheer number of players here. But damn, if they can't trade Higgins, they have to waive him to get rid of him. Are they that sure he can provide the team with something, anything, that they can't live without?

[DeNiro]

Don't you dare play one of Utica's best players Willie. It's not like they've been good for us this year or anything.

[DIBdaQUIB]

2 hours ago, RonMexico said:

All I hear is, 'WD doesn't start who I want him to start.'

Open your mind and clean your ears. 

 

 

[DIBdaQUIB]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Don't you dare play one of Utica's best players Willie. It's not like they've been good for us this year or anything.

Chicago has been able to add youth regularly while moving quality vets and still stay competitive.

Seems the Nucks still believe in the core and that playing experience over youth trumps actual production.  How can Higgins stay in over Kenins based on last night's game? 

Just acknowledge that the team is rebuilding and drop the BS about playoffs and how anything can happen.  This team isn't beating any team that is a serious contender in a series.  If Benning wants the kids to develop so they are more of a force next year (as he described the Jake situation) then start now and move the deadwood vets who are only sharing bad habits with the kids.

[alfstonker]

18 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I get where you are coming from. In the end, this is a sport we watch because we choose to watch it. The Canucks don't owe us anything more than we owe them.

That being said, I do sometimes have issue with players that demonstrate chronic unwillingness to go that extra step to win or at least try to. Yannick Weber is a example of that type of player. His effort level is half of what the rest of the defense puts out. When he makes mistakes, more often than not, they end up as goals against. All the hard work put in by the other five Canucks on the ice is nullified by his uselessness.

Perfect example was last night. Horvat scored a nice greasy goal and got the monkey off his back, and not even two minutes later, Weber is lying on the ice, behind the net, and the momentum is quashed.

Weber was given a one year deal in good faith that he would contribute. He has been a sieve and a liability. Pure and simple. This team without him is a much better team because his weaknesses are removed from the equation.

Sbisa used to really draw the ire of the fanbase for his boneheaded plays in his own end. However, he began to work on those areas and increased his physicality. Now he is missed on the blueline severely. He made the conscious choice to improve, even though he had been essentially gifted a three year contract based on what, in my opinion, was pretty shoddy play last year.

Biega, Hutton, and Pedan come in and perform their roles and do their best. Weber doesn't.

As far as Higgins and Burrows, they have been great for the team, Burrows especially, but are now a couple of steps behind the game, and lack the IQ and skill of the Sedins, and the speed and tenacity of Hansen. I don't see a scenario in which keeping either player would benefit the team or the inclusion of youth. They both still demonstrate the ability to make a good play, Higgins' play to get the puck to Horvat was a shrewd play, but one that occurs far too seldom.

 

Phillip, it's interesting that you chose the second goal the other night to show up Weber's failings. I don't know if you are able to watch it again but if you can, look at Hutton's part.

I have remarked on here more than once now, how easily Hutton is beaten on an inside move (I like Hutton by the way) and once more he was duped by an inside move, after that he was floundering about - that was the goal right there but for an excellent reflex save by Marky. So what I am saying is there were 2 Canucks complicit in that goal, one was duped and one lost an edge. 

Hutton and the coaches MUST work on his inside defence or it will lead to some bad moments for him and the Canucks.

Beiga is rarely beaten on an inside move because he just takes the man and that is what Hutton must learn to do.

The rest of your post I agree with but it is all up to Benning now. I thought Vey was good the other night, as was Kenins. 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Phillip, it's interesting that you chose the second goal the other night to show up Weber's failings. I don't know if you are able to watch it again but if you can, look at Hutton's part.

I have remarked on here more than once now, how easily Hutton is beaten on an inside move (I like Hutton by the way) and once more he was duped by an inside move, after that he was floundering about - that was the goal right there but for an excellent reflex save by Marky. So what I am saying is there were 2 Canucks complicit in that goal, one was duped and one lost an edge. 

Hutton and the coaches MUST work on his inside defence or it will lead to some bad moments for him and the Canucks.

Beiga is rarely beaten on an inside move because he just takes the man and that is what Hutton must learn to do.

The rest of your post I agree with but it is all up to Benning now. I thought Vey was good the other night, as was Kenins. 

I noticed Hutton's gaffes on the play as well, alfstonker. He made some poor decisions, but I chose not to mention him for one particular reason. It's his first year as a professional NHL player, and therefore he will be prone to making errors as he acclimates himself to the NHL pace of play.

Weber, on the other hand, has over 7 years of NHL experience, yet looked as lost on the play as Hutton.

[alfstonker]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I noticed Hutton's gaffes on the play as well, alfstonker. He made some poor decisions, but I chose not to mention him for one particular reason. It's his first year as a professional NHL player, and therefore he will be prone to making errors as he acclimates himself to the NHL pace of play.

Weber, on the other hand, has over 7 years of NHL experience, yet looked as lost on the play as Hutton.

Fair enough but we can't continue to have the mindset that hammers vets and lets the young guys off scot free. Almost since 10 games into the season I have wondered what the knock on effect of having so many inexperienced guys (and I mean "inexperienced" not even an AHL game) in the team has on the vets. 

In my book it is putting an unfair strain on them. I cringed when I watched Burr, Prust, Vbrata being interviewed and told not asked, how exciting and how invigorating it must be having all that youthful exuberance in the team. Yeah right, maybe the interviewer was on the wind up but what else could these vets say but "it sure is" They couldn't very well say "man we are playing extra minutes to make up the shortfall and knocking our pans in covering, at of course that leads to mistakes."

These youngsters are not high IQ, big bodied top 3 picks and they are not 22 year old Larkins with a good few AHL games under their belt they are promising rookies, no more no less. They are lightweight (McCann) overwhelmed (Jake) over-promoted (Bo) struggling to find form (Sven and Kenins) game but inexperienced (Hutton)

Players like Higgins, Burr, Weber, Vbrata, Prust, Dorsett are not good enough now to make up that shortfall, that's the beginning and end of it.They are being asked to carry a load when they were struggling even with out that load the previous 2-3 seasons.

Frankly I am amazed we are not already in last place and I put it down to good coaching and outstanding performances most nights by the likes of the Sedins, Edler, Biega, Hansen,Tanev, Miller and Markstrom.

 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Fair enough but we can't continue to have the mindset that hammers vets and lets the young guys off scot free. Almost since 10 games into the season I have wondered what the knock on effect of having so many inexperienced guys (and I mean "inexperienced" not even an AHL game) in the team has on the vets. 

In my book it is putting an unfair strain on them. I cringed when I watched Burr, Prust, Vbrata being interviewed and told not asked, how exciting and how invigorating it must be having all that youthful exuberance in the team. Yeah right, maybe the interviewer was on the wind up but what else could these vets say but "it sure is" They couldn't very well say "man we are playing extra minutes to make up the shortfall and knocking our pans in covering, at of course that leads to mistakes."

These youngsters are not high IQ, big bodied top 3 picks and they are not 22 year old Larkins with a good few AHL games under their belt they are promising rookies, no more no less. They are lightweight (McCann) overwhelmed (Jake) over-promoted (Bo) struggling to find form (Sven and Kenins) game but inexperienced (Hutton)

Players like Higgins, Burr, Weber, Vbrata, Prust, Dorsett are not good enough now to make up that shortfall, that's the beginning and end of it.They are being asked to carry a load when they were struggling even with out that load the previous 2-3 seasons.

Frankly I am amazed we are not already in last place and I put it down to good coaching and outstanding performances most nights by the likes of the Sedins, Edler, Biega, Hansen,Tanev, Miller and Markstrom.

 

There is no doubt that Gillis' failure to draft properly in the first half of his tenure, is a huge contributing factor to the present state of the team. The void of players in the mid twenties range is glaring.

That being said, there is also a void in between the effort level between veterans. If the inclusion of rookies into the team is wearing on Burrows, Higgins, and Vrbata, that's their problem.

It doesn't seem to be causing issue for Henrik and Daniel, or Hansen. All three of them are having excellent years production wise. The Sedins are clearly not of this world, but what really separates Hansen from the rest of the veterans?

His effort. To blame the "struggles" of the rookies on the waning effort level of certain veterans is the very definition of reaching, in my opinion. Rookies will always struggle with acclimating themselves to the pro game. Especially when much of the roster is being overturned.

Same goes for the defense. Edler's play has been somewhat steady this year, but he has also been woefully inconsistent, playing like a true number one defenseman in one game, and playing like Dion Phaneuf's understudy the next.

Hamhuis, who frankly may have run out of gas, is also struggling with simple plays.

You're right in the fact that the present collection of veterans (outside of the Sedins and Hansen) are struggling because they just aren't good enough to carry the team on their back. But I don't think it's merely because they can't, but also because they don't want to.

You may look at them as tired and overworked vets who have been stretched farther than they have the capacity to manage. I'd agree if the on ice effort spoke to that. It doesn't. I've watched far too many games where the aforementioned vets have played with zero urgency, merely putting in time.  

I see the majority of the underperforming veterans as passengers who have grown accustomed to coasting and clock punching.

It puts Willie in an awkward position. He has vets putting in half assed efforts, but he can't sit them because of a lack of depth. However, the youth see the vets play lackadaisical and not get sat for it, but they make one wrong move and their asses are stapled to the bench.

It sends a mixed and confusing message, and Willie is dropping the ball there. He should be sitting vets when they play like crap, but he doesn't. I mean, Lindy Ruff sat Benn and Seguin for most of the third period last night to make a point.

Desjardins either doesn't have the guts to do it, or he has been instructed to play the vets to increase their menial trade value. However when these vets mail it in, their trade value suffers anyway.

And so goes the season.

[Longtime Fan]

On 1/4/2016 at 10:27 AM, homersexual said:

Grenier will be sent back down in two days after sitting in the press box tonight. Rinse, repeat.

So true.  Was sent back on Tuesday.  Ridiculous!!

[Jack Fig]

5 hours ago, Longtime Fan said:

So true.  Was sent back on Tuesday.  Ridiculous!!

When called-up, these guys should ask..."Am I going to play? Otherwise I'm not interested in bothering to go through the hassle. Call me when you need me".

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Jack Fig said:

When called-up, these guys should ask..."Am I going to play? Otherwise I'm not interested in bothering to go through the hassle. Call me when you need me".

Tough to do when you're on a 2 way contact and get a nice payday to take a couple days off.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jack Fig said:

When called-up, these guys should ask..."Am I going to play? Otherwise I'm not interested in bothering to go through the hassle. Call me when you need me".

 

34 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Tough to do when you're on a 2 way contact and get a nice payday to take a couple days off.

I see both of you guys' view points, but, from Grenier's perspective, maybe look at it this way. You get paid a certain salary, at the AHL level. It's comfortable...not going to get you a Porsche or anything, but comfortable. Then you get called up to Vancouver. It may be only one game, but that game is about...10 times your normal salary. Not a bad gig for one game.

Now...I sincerely hope he is at the point of getting a little exasperated about not playing when he gets the call. Doing this  once...fine, nice check. Twice...ok, but I thought I was played to play hockey?! Third time is the charm???  Hope so, we need his size, and from what I've heard, his pretty damn good wrist shot!

[Kragar]

7 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

There is no doubt that Gillis' failure to draft properly in the first half of his tenure, is a huge contributing factor to the present state of the team. The void of players in the mid twenties range is glaring.

That being said, there is also a void in between the effort level between veterans. If the inclusion of rookies into the team is wearing on Burrows, Higgins, and Vrbata, that's their problem.

It doesn't seem to be causing issue for Henrik and Daniel, or Hansen. All three of them are having excellent years production wise. The Sedins are clearly not of this world, but what really separates Hansen from the rest of the veterans?

His effort. To blame the "struggles" of the rookies on the waning effort level of certain veterans is the very definition of reaching, in my opinion. Rookies will always struggle with acclimating themselves to the pro game. Especially when much of the roster is being overturned.

Same goes for the defense. Edler's play has been somewhat steady this year, but he has also been woefully inconsistent, playing like a true number one defenseman in one game, and playing like Dion Phaneuf's understudy the next.

Hamhuis, who frankly may have run out of gas, is also struggling with simple plays.

You're right in the fact that the present collection of veterans (outside of the Sedins and Hansen) are struggling because they just aren't good enough to carry the team on their back. But I don't think it's merely because they can't, but also because they don't want to.

You may look at them as tired and overworked vets who have been stretched farther than they have the capacity to manage. I'd agree if the on ice effort spoke to that. It doesn't. I've watched far too many games where the aforementioned vets have played with zero urgency, merely putting in time.  

I see the majority of the underperforming veterans as passengers who have grown accustomed to coasting and clock punching.

It puts Willie in an awkward position. He has vets putting in half assed efforts, but he can't sit them because of a lack of depth. However, the youth see the vets play lackadaisical and not get sat for it, but they make one wrong move and their asses are stapled to the bench.

It sends a mixed and confusing message, and Willie is dropping the ball there. He should be sitting vets when they play like crap, but he doesn't. I mean, Lindy Ruff sat Benn and Seguin for most of the third period last night to make a point.

Desjardins either doesn't have the guts to do it, or he has been instructed to play the vets to increase their menial trade value. However when these vets mail it in, their trade value suffers anyway.

And so goes the season.

About the bolded, I can only assume that is your speculation.  I'm plenty pissed with a number of those you are complaining about as well, but Alfstonker brings up an interesting point that I have been trying to articulate for a while now.  Having to do more than you are capable of, or even being asked to do the limit of what you are capable of for too long can burn you out.

The team is gawd-awful weak at center.  Henrik has never been a strong face-off guy.  Horvat did well enough last year, but he's still a young'un, and is being pushed harder with Sutter out, so while he is better than average in face-offs, the rest of his play suffers at times, presumably because he is tired.  McCann is even younger, and just plain sucks in the dot.  Cracknell has been asked to play center once in a while, and he can't win at the dot, either.  Vey isn't much better.  With the team being last in faceoffs, there's a lot more chasing going on than there should be.  When there's chasing, mistakes get made, and more likely by the kids, just due to lack of experience. And as the vets cover for the kids (which aren't playing with the Sedin's), those bottom lines will burn out quicker.  Perhaps one reason why Hansen is able to maintain his energy is because he is playing with the top IQ's on the team, and doesn't have many linemate mistakes to cover up.  Until we can get stable at center, the team is in for a rough ride.

Waiving guys like Higgins will bring screams of bad asset management, as those players leave for no return.  Their trade value sucks right now, so they aren't going to get anything decent for them at this point.  Maybe as injuries to contenders pile up closer to the deadline, their values will change.  And while I agree that it could set a bad example for the younger guys seeing the vets appear to not playing hard, that might be a better alternative to getting rid of a bunch of guys, only to see the numerous youngsters get their confidence killed because there are not enough vets to shelter them from the storm.

It's a tough call.  Part of me wants to see the younger guys play more, especially Pedan.  But WD might be getting direction from above to try to improve the value of vets that may not be on the team next year, in the hope of improving our return via trades (complete speculation on my part).  If that's what's best for the team, I'm willing to suffer through it.  If it gets us a better draft slot, well that's some silver lining (no, I'm not a tanker).

 

[Positive Canuck]

Krager

thats the only thing that makes sense , trying to showcase the garbage but he flushes it and yes , silver lining is a top 5 pick at this rate.

[Jack Fig]

16 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Tough to do when you're on a 2 way contact and get a nice payday to take a couple days off.

I was being facetious. Kind of.

[aqua59]

On 1/6/2016 at 4:56 PM, RonMexico said:

All I hear is, 'WD doesn't start who I want him to start.'

No I didn't say that at all, you just hear what you want to hear. You make no point. My opinion just happens to be different tham yours and it bugs you. I'm glad.  

 

[hockeyking]

On 2016-01-06 at 9:16 AM, PhillipBlunt said:

There is no doubt that Gillis' failure to draft properly in the first half of his tenure, is a huge contributing factor to the present state of the team. The void of players in the mid twenties range is glaring.

That being said, there is also a void in between the effort level between veterans. If the inclusion of rookies into the team is wearing on Burrows, Higgins, and Vrbata, that's their problem.

It doesn't seem to be causing issue for Henrik and Daniel, or Hansen. All three of them are having excellent years production wise. The Sedins are clearly not of this world, but what really separates Hansen from the rest of the veterans?

His effort. To blame the "struggles" of the rookies on the waning effort level of certain veterans is the very definition of reaching, in my opinion. Rookies will always struggle with acclimating themselves to the pro game. Especially when much of the roster is being overturned.

Same goes for the defense. Edler's play has been somewhat steady this year, but he has also been woefully inconsistent, playing like a true number one defenseman in one game, and playing like Dion Phaneuf's understudy the next.

Hamhuis, who frankly may have run out of gas, is also struggling with simple plays.

You're right in the fact that the present collection of veterans (outside of the Sedins and Hansen) are struggling because they just aren't good enough to carry the team on their back. But I don't think it's merely because they can't, but also because they don't want to.

You may look at them as tired and overworked vets who have been stretched farther than they have the capacity to manage. I'd agree if the on ice effort spoke to that. It doesn't. I've watched far too many games where the aforementioned vets have played with zero urgency, merely putting in time.  

I see the majority of the underperforming veterans as passengers who have grown accustomed to coasting and clock punching.

It puts Willie in an awkward position. He has vets putting in half assed efforts, but he can't sit them because of a lack of depth. However, the youth see the vets play lackadaisical and not get sat for it, but they make one wrong move and their asses are stapled to the bench.

It sends a mixed and confusing message, and Willie is dropping the ball there. He should be sitting vets when they play like crap, but he doesn't. I mean, Lindy Ruff sat Benn and Seguin for most of the third period last night to make a point.

Desjardins either doesn't have the guts to do it, or he has been instructed to play the vets to increase their menial trade value. However when these vets mail it in, their trade value suffers anyway.

And so goes the season.

hes only 29 and all the other vets are at-least 3-5 years older than him.

If the inclusion of rookies is wearing the veterans that just means that the rookies aren't playing that great and they have to go around bailing them out.

Your telling me Higgins, Prust, Dorset, Vrbata and Sutter all known throughout there entire career for there are hard work and work ethic aren't trying is just ridiculous.

Edler is what Edler is an number 2 defenceman expected to take the responsibility of a number 1 defenceman never going to work out.