BI3KSA- Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, apollo said: Tanev + mccann > Jones. Not even close to true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, BI3KSA- said: Not even close to true Really?... Tanev established #1 pairing... Locked up reasonably well cap hit. Mccann in entry level cap and doing good for his rookie year. Jones won't = those two combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 4 hours ago, apollo said: Really?... Tanev established #1 pairing... Locked up reasonably well cap hit. Mccann in entry level cap and doing good for his rookie year. Jones won't = those two combined. Jones and McCann are tied for points right now and Jones at 25 points his rookie season (on a Nashville team with no one over 55 points whos point leader was Shea Weber ffs) will probably outscore McCann in the rookie season scoring category as well, all as a defensemen. Tanev is number one pairing on our AHL level defense but he wouldnt be on a contender. Tanev is great defensively but he never hits, never fights or brings any toughness or grit (in that context at least, he's tough as nails when it comes to blocking shots and getting hit) and never scores or does anything of note offensively. I mean, where on Nashvilles defense would Tanev even be? Josi, Weber, Ekholm, Ellis... He might not even be in their top 4. Jones is going to be a monster. A franchise leading defensivemen, most likely. It would be an absolute STEAL to get him for Tanev and McCann and if we offered that Nashville would hang up the phone, fly to Vancouver, and beat JB with the phone till he promises to never make such silly offers again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, BI3KSA- said: Jones and McCann are tied for points right now and Jones at 25 points his rookie season (on a Nashville team with no one over 55 points whos point leader was Shea Weber ffs) will probably outscore McCann in the rookie season scoring category as well, all as a defensemen. Tanev is number one pairing on our AHL level defense but he wouldnt be on a contender. Tanev is great defensively but he never hits, never fights or brings any toughness or grit (in that context at least, he's tough as nails when it comes to blocking shots and getting hit) and never scores or does anything of note offensively. I mean, where on Nashvilles defense would Tanev even be? Josi, Weber, Ekholm, Ellis... He might not even be in their top 4. Jones is going to be a monster. A franchise leading defensivemen, most likely. It would be an absolute STEAL to get him for Tanev and McCann and if we offered that Nashville would hang up the phone, fly to Vancouver, and beat JB with the phone till he promises to never make such silly offers again. I think you tad overate Jones, of all the good d-men that Nashville has they moved him. He is a very good young d-man but franchise player i am not so sure.The kid that Columbus drafted last year is going to be their franchise player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckistani Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, BI3KSA- said: Jones and McCann are tied for points right now and Jones at 25 points his rookie season (on a Nashville team with no one over 55 points whos point leader was Shea Weber ffs) will probably outscore McCann in the rookie season scoring category as well, all as a defensemen. Tanev is number one pairing on our AHL level defense but he wouldnt be on a contender. Tanev is great defensively but he never hits, never fights or brings any toughness or grit (in that context at least, he's tough as nails when it comes to blocking shots and getting hit) and never scores or does anything of note offensively. I mean, where on Nashvilles defense would Tanev even be? Josi, Weber, Ekholm, Ellis... He might not even be in their top 4. Jones is going to be a monster. A franchise leading defensivemen, most likely. It would be an absolute STEAL to get him for Tanev and McCann and if we offered that Nashville would hang up the phone, fly to Vancouver, and beat JB with the phone till he promises to never make such silly offers again. I am not going to disagree with you on that Jones is a potential NHL top-5 defenceman and has shown the development & talent to back such stratospheric projections. However, you are underrating Tanev here. You are right, Tanev is not a complete defenceman- he is very ordinary in the offensive department of things and he doesnt really hit. He is the Sedin type 'take the hit/block the shot to make the smart play' type of tough-guy. He is not a top pairing defenseman on a regular contender type of a team (say a hypothetical team that is in the conference finals/stanley cup finals/cup-winner zone for like say 5 outta 6-7 year window). But he is a solid pick for a 2nd pairing defenseman and at his cap-hit and level of play, he makes a very strong case for a prototypical top 4 guy in above mentioned team. All you need to do is pair Tanev with a left-handed version of Sami Salo ( a defensively responsible defenseman who isn't flashy with his offense but can make crisp breakout passes and a cannon of a shot) and that is your ideal (and affordable) 2nd pairing defenseman situation right there. I think this argument boils down to whether one values a projected hall of famer over two guys, one of which is at the peak of a very very good NHL career (Tanev) and is a genuinely 'excellent' player of his category, the other (McCann) being a guy who could potentially be a regular 20-25 G/season and 50-60 points/season as a offensively minded 2nd line center. IMO, thats a matter of a tossup. The 'generational talent who isn't there yet' has better rewards but also much greater risks, given that with Tanev in that deal, the trade is something very tangible and has a much greater ceiling of 'guaranteed returns'. I think its all a moot point, because Vancouver simply does not have the right pieces to trade for a Seth Jones or even a Travis Harmonic kind of player and also immediately improve, like CBJ and Nashville just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 9 hours ago, apollo said: Really?... Tanev established #1 pairing... Locked up reasonably well cap hit. Mccann in entry level cap and doing good for his rookie year. Jones won't = those two combined. Jones has the potential to be a franchise defenceman, he was touted by many to be the first overall pick in his draft year., Neither McCann nor Tanev has that potential. Tanev is a good shut down defenceman true but if you look around the league, you will find many players like him. Same with McCann. Jones is more of a rare breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HC20.0 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 minute ago, smokes said: Jones has the potential to be a franchise defenceman, he was touted by many to be the first overall pick in his draft year., Neither McCann nor Tanev has that potential. Tanev is a good shut down defenceman true but if you look around the league, you will find many players like him. Same with McCann. Jones is more of a rare breed. How Jones dropped to 4th OA still amazes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 i'm guessing a deal of Vrbata to DET for Mantha + prospect. book it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 hours ago, HC20.0 said: How Jones dropped to 4th OA still amazes me. I am sure it amazes Tampa the most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucks411 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 6 hours ago, ice orca said: I think you tad overate Jones, of all the good d-men that Nashville has they moved him. He is a very good young d-man but franchise player i am not so sure.The kid that Columbus drafted last year is going to be their franchise player. Werenski - Jones Murray - Johnson Connauton - Savard I envy that defense. Now just imagine if they get Matthews... 8 minutes ago, canucks411 said: JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. Any GM would obviously have to keep quiet about what's going on around the league lol. Anyway, I have a feeling JB is working on a trade or two but is still finalizing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BertaNuck Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 17 minutes ago, canucks411 said: JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. That's because no one is calling Vancouver because all we want to trade is our over priced crappy players, no one wants them, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Filthy McNasty said: That's because no one is calling Vancouver because all we want to trade is our over priced crappy players, no one wants them, Right because all the armchair offers on CDC are what JB is offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Tanev would likely be in the 5 spot in NSH. Hes only a top pairing D on our team. At best he'd be in 4 spot. Anyways I wonder what JB offered for Drouin. I'd try to make a move for him. I'd offer Shinkaruk and a 3rd. But I'm sure Y wants a lot more. He'd want McCann going the other way. So really I don't expect JB to be in on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, canucks411 said: JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. Three trades involving 6 teams. Vancouver's lack of action after one day isn't really a red flag. Would you prefer that Benning be methodical and calculated about a trade, or be reactionary and do it because of peer pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 1 hour ago, canucks411 said: JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. I'm sure he kicked the tires on all three of those trades...There was obviously nothing that made sense,or more than likely,we didn't have the right assets to trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 2 hours ago, canucks411 said: JB "no trade activity out there, which is real odd"........talk about out to lunch! 3 trades in the last 24 hours. Because GMs are supposed to aware of pending trades they aren't involved in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 On 1/7/2016 at 5:56 AM, ice orca said: I think you tad overate Jones, of all the good d-men that Nashville has they moved him. He is a very good young d-man but franchise player i am not so sure.The kid that Columbus drafted last year is going to be their franchise player. Take a look at what they moved him for and it gives you quite the accurate picture of what he is rated at. 6'3 225 top line centers that score over 30 goals at 21 and over 70 pts at 22 are nothing to sneeze at. Theyre both going to be monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 On 1/7/2016 at 6:12 AM, canuckistani said: I am not going to disagree with you on that Jones is a potential NHL top-5 defenceman and has shown the development & talent to back such stratospheric projections. However, you are underrating Tanev here. You are right, Tanev is not a complete defenceman- he is very ordinary in the offensive department of things and he doesnt really hit. He is the Sedin type 'take the hit/block the shot to make the smart play' type of tough-guy. He is not a top pairing defenseman on a regular contender type of a team (say a hypothetical team that is in the conference finals/stanley cup finals/cup-winner zone for like say 5 outta 6-7 year window). But he is a solid pick for a 2nd pairing defenseman and at his cap-hit and level of play, he makes a very strong case for a prototypical top 4 guy in above mentioned team. All you need to do is pair Tanev with a left-handed version of Sami Salo ( a defensively responsible defenseman who isn't flashy with his offense but can make crisp breakout passes and a cannon of a shot) and that is your ideal (and affordable) 2nd pairing defenseman situation right there. I think this argument boils down to whether one values a projected hall of famer over two guys, one of which is at the peak of a very very good NHL career (Tanev) and is a genuinely 'excellent' player of his category, the other (McCann) being a guy who could potentially be a regular 20-25 G/season and 50-60 points/season as a offensively minded 2nd line center. IMO, thats a matter of a tossup. The 'generational talent who isn't there yet' has better rewards but also much greater risks, given that with Tanev in that deal, the trade is something very tangible and has a much greater ceiling of 'guaranteed returns'. I think its all a moot point, because Vancouver simply does not have the right pieces to trade for a Seth Jones or even a Travis Harmonic kind of player and also immediately improve, like CBJ and Nashville just did. You make some good points and I agree with a lot of them. I'd even go as far as to say Tanev is very high end, nearly elite, defensively. The issue being he literally has nothing else to his game, and thus he will never be a true top pairing defensemen IMO. At the end of the day, for me, what it boils down to is, potential game changing, elite, Norris level defensemen win you cups and are very difficult to reliably draft, develop and/or acquire. The same cant be said about solid offensively minded 2nd line centers, or reliable, tough as nails, solid defensive top 4 defensemen. Defensemen as good as Jones are rarely even in entire drafts, no matter where you pick. I just dont think the value is comparable between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 the more we wait the better chance of us getting more for UFA's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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