Crabcakes Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Boddy604 said: You're pretty convinced Cracknell is sticking around eh? Not a chance. With McCann, Vey, and Zalewski here they're not going to give it to a 31 year old so a young player ready to make the jump gets left behind. He made it this year because the 4C spot was McCann's so having an older player as assurance made sense. Next year will have Vey in his 3rd season, McCann in his 2nd, and Zalewski being basically the ideal image of a 4C. Cracknell is going back to the AHL. Guaranteed. I don't disagree with you. That's why I said Cracknell or Zalewski. It's another argument. I think there are enough points in my post for people to argue over without adding more. It is a Vey thread after all. What I'm saying is that what goes on higher up in centre depth, leaves Vey out of the line up under most scenario's. And the more probable ones imo. Both Cracknell and Zalewski have the physical size and grit for the 4C job and are ahead of Vey who is more suited to 3C or 2C. I like what Zalewski brings actually. Size, speed, good on face offs. He has better tools than Cracknell but we have only seen him play a few games in the NHL. He has improved a lot since last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 hours ago, Crabcakes said: I don't disagree with you. That's why I said Cracknell or Zalewski. It's another argument. I think there are enough points in my post for people to argue over without adding more. It is a Vey thread after all. What I'm saying is that what goes on higher up in centre depth, leaves Vey out of the line up under most scenario's. And the more probable ones imo. Both Cracknell and Zalewski have the physical size and grit for the 4C job and are ahead of Vey who is more suited to 3C or 2C. I like what Zalewski brings actually. Size, speed, good on face offs. He has better tools than Cracknell but we have only seen him play a few games in the NHL. He has improved a lot since last year. Zalewski has 0 alltime NHL goals Cracknell has 6 all-time NHL goals Vey has 11 all-time NHL goals McCann has 7 all-time NHL goals Wow this is some super NHL depth at a very critical position of centre. Teams win with strength down the middle and D. Sedin is a first line centre. Sutter and Horvat are 3rd line centres..... Our other 4 centres are AHL quality centres. We have very little depth at centre right now. We have prospects ( mostly McCann ) for sure but that is all they are right now. They are not playoff proven or proven point getters . Just prospects right now. Cracknell was drafted almost 300th in his draft year..... Zalewski was not even drafted.... - I wonder why . Cracknell will for sure not be back next year. Zalewski most likely will need a few more years in Utica to develop his game I think there is about a 75% chance Vey is back in Utica next year or claimed off waivers. Too many Canuck fans on here are not realist on how they rate Canuck players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Zalewski has 0 alltime NHL goals Cracknell has 6 all-time NHL goals Vey has 11 all-time NHL goals McCann has 7 all-time NHL goals Wow this is some super NHL depth at a very critical position of centre. Teams win with strength down the middle and D. Sedin is a first line centre. Sutter and Horvat are 3rd line centres..... Our other 4 centres are AHL quality centres. We have very little depth at centre right now. We have prospects ( mostly McCann ) for sure but that is all they are right now. They are not playoff proven or proven point getters . Just prospects right now. Cracknell was drafted almost 300th in his draft year..... Zalewski was not even drafted.... - I wonder why . Cracknell will for sure not be back next year. Zalewski most likely will need a few more years in Utica to develop his game I think there is about a 75% chance Vey is back in Utica next year or claimed off waivers. Too many Canuck fans on here are not realist on how they rate Canuck players. Are you responding to my post or just trolling? Check out the Zalewski thread in the prospects section. He's a late bloomer. 4 goals in 2 games since back in Utica. He's a comer. FWIW I think Vey is not in the Canucks system next year. So we do have some common ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Zalewski has 0 alltime NHL goals Cracknell has 6 all-time NHL goals Vey has 11 all-time NHL goals McCann has 7 all-time NHL goals Wow this is some super NHL depth at a very critical position of centre. Teams win with strength down the middle and D. Sedin is a first line centre. Sutter and Horvat are 3rd line centres..... Our other 4 centres are AHL quality centres. We have very little depth at centre right now. We have prospects ( mostly McCann ) for sure but that is all they are right now. They are not playoff proven or proven point getters . Just prospects right now. Cracknell was drafted almost 300th in his draft year..... Zalewski was not even drafted.... - I wonder why . Cracknell will for sure not be back next year. Zalewski most likely will need a few more years in Utica to develop his game I think there is about a 75% chance Vey is back in Utica next year or claimed off waivers. Too many Canuck fans on here are not realist on how they rate Canuck players. Anyone who openly admits to not only living in Surrey, but promotes themselves as the King of that ^*%# *^+^, must be considered an honest man who speaks what they truly believe. Therefore you cannot be a troll. However, considering the stupidity of you comments about the Canuck's centres you might want the tag of troll, because what's left would be moron or imbilcile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: Anyone who openly admits to not only living in Surrey, but promotes themselves as the King of that ^*%# *^+^, must be considered an honest man who speaks what they truly believe. Therefore you cannot be a troll. However, considering the stupidity of you comments about the Canuck's centres you might want the tag of troll, because what's left would be moron or imbilcile. Like i said. Many canuck fans simply are not realistic in how they rate / assess Canuck players. Look at our Centres in 2011 - Sedin ( in his prime ) Kesler ( in his prime ) then we had Lappy, Higgins , Malhotra and Rypien /Hodgson That team had way more depth ( experience ) at Centre that our current team. Our current team has prospects at Centre but they are not veterans playing at their peak right now. Don't bash Surrey. Surrey is the new Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 19 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Are you responding to my post or just trolling? Check out the Zalewski thread in the prospects section. He's a late bloomer. 4 goals in 2 games since back in Utica. He's a comer. FWIW I think Vey is not in the Canucks system next year. So we do have some common ground. Zalewski is a great prospect considering he was undrafted. After 1-2 more years in the AHL , we may know what his ceiling is. The name of the game is development and Zalewski needs to cook / stew in Utica getting big minutes and responsibilities. I like the way he skates and competes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said: Like i said. Many canuck fans simply are not realistic in how they rate / assess Canuck players. Look at our Centres in 2011 - Sedin Kesler then we had Lappy, Higgins , Malhotra and Rypien /Hodgson That team had way more depth ( experience ) at Centre that our current team. Our current team has prospects at Centre but they are not veterans playing at their peak right now. You said we had Henrik as a ligitimate one, Bo and Sutter were threes and the rest were AHLers. We are a rebuilding team with prospects of high potential. Sutter is clearly a two. Bo and McCann have potential to be ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: You said we had Henrik as a ligitimate one, Bo and Sutter were threes and the rest were AHLers. We are a rebuilding team with prospects of high potential. Sutter is clearly a two. Bo and McCann have potential to be ones. Sutter has never produced as a number 2 centre. He does not offensively elevate his linemates. Not a great puck distributor. Sutter is good but overpaid third C. Bo and McCann do have alot of potential.Agreed but right now potential ain't worth jack. Right now Bo and McCann should be developing as 3 C's. Bo as a 2 C is leading our team in minus at - 22 i think... He should not be playing these kind of match ups at this point in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 11 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Sutter has never produced as a number 2 centre. He does not offensively elevate his linemates. Not a great puck distributor. Sutter is good but overpaid third C. Bo and McCann do have alot of potential.Agreed but right now potential ain't worth jack. Right now Bo and McCann should be developing as 3 C's. Bo as a 2 C is leading our team in minus at - 22 i think... He should not be playing these kind of match ups at this point in his career. As I stated earlier, you are clearly honest - not trolling a Canuck's board - but I do think you are way off base on your evaluation of our prospects' potentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 20 minutes ago, Alflives said: As I stated earlier, you are clearly honest - not trolling a Canuck's board - but I do think you are way off base on your evaluation of our prospects' potentials. You are entitled to your opinions. Just remember to not confuse potential to what a player currently performs at. Yes, we finally added 3-4 rookies that have a higher potential ceiling. This is fantastic. Hopefully a few of these young kids will turn out and reach their full adult NHL potential. Unfortunately just being a first round draft choice is not guarentee to become a top 6 forward with a long career. Unfortunately they will take 3--4 years before they reach their ceiling. We need to be patient as our team will not be challenging for Lord Stanley anytime soon. I am ok with that as i prefer to build up a large core of similar aged high end prospects. Just like we did with Hank, Danny and Kes ( 3 yrs apart _) I can be patient but i just don't want to put false hope on 30 yr old career AHL plugs as becoming impact players on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 12 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: You are entitled to your opinions. Just remember to not confuse potential to what a player currently performs at. Yes, we finally added 3-4 rookies that have a higher potential ceiling. This is fantastic. Hopefully a few of these young kids will turn out and reach their full adult NHL potential. Unfortunately just being a first round draft choice is not guarentee to become a top 6 forward with a long career. Unfortunately they will take 3--4 years before they reach their ceiling. We need to be patient as our team will not be challenging for Lord Stanley anytime soon. I am ok with that as i prefer to build up a large core of similar aged high end prospects. Just like we did with Hank, Danny and Kes. I can be patient but i just don't want to put false hope on 30 yr old career AHL plugs as becoming impact players on our team. We have Sutter for four years, as the stop gap. He's not on our team after this contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: We have Sutter for four years, as the stop gap. He's not on our team after this contract. Agreed. Decent stop gap centre for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: You are entitled to your opinions. Just remember to not confuse potential to what a player currently performs at. Yes, we finally added 3-4 rookies that have a higher potential ceiling. This is fantastic. Hopefully 1-2 of these young kids will turn out and reach their full adult NHL potential. Unfortunately they will take 3--4 years before they reach their ceiling. We need to be patient as our team will not be challenging for Lord Stanley anytime soon. I am ok with that as i prefer to build up a large core of similar aged high end prospects. Just like we did with Hank, Danny and Kes. I can be patient but i just don't want to put false hope on 30 yr old career AHL plugs as becoming impact players on our team. You know, I think we are all closer in our assessments than you might think. Sutter was brought in as a temporary 2C until Horvat was ready to take that role. This was to be a short term fix. Longer term, the plan was for him to be 3C as he was in Pitt. As a foundational player, he was to take the shut down role. He was given a 5 year extension to do this. Nobody expected the Sutter injury so Horvat had to play 2C too soon because they didn't have the high end depth. Well, he struggled for 7 weeks and is now coming around finally. He's -24 now but I think this has stabilized and is not getting worse. Cracknell is also a temporary fill in at 4C. He is there for the season because he is the best option for now. They like the heavy game he brings. He's a better option than Vey for this reason. It remains to be seen how Zalewski improves but his improvement seems to be a rapid one. You never know how young players come along. It looks to me like he may make the jump by next year. McCann can either take the 3C spot next year or go down to Utica. I think that he will be with the Canucks and I'm not worried about that because he has significant upside and I think that he can hold his own as 3C next year. So, if you buy that Horvat can hold his own and develop at 2C and McCann can do the same at 3C, then they are free to trade Vrbata and Sutter can take his place for the short term on RW. This has been experimented with successfully already. They have the option to bring in a free agent top 6 RW or not. At forward, I think that they are set as a developing, transitioning team for next year. This is very much a work in progress. The real holes in the line up are on D and if they move Vrbata, Prust, Vey, and Higgins, they will have north of $10M to sign free agent D or trade for one. This part gets more complicated as you look more closely at it but for this conversation, let's leave it at that. At centre, when the Sedins retire, the centre depth could be Horvat, McCann, Sutter, Zalewski. There are questions to be answered with these 4 obviously but it is something to work towards. We just don't know what opportunities will come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: You know, I think we are all closer in our assessments than you might think. Sutter was brought in as a temporary 2C until Horvat was ready to take that role. This was to be a short term fix. Longer term, the plan was for him to be 3C as he was in Pitt. As a foundational player, he was to take the shut down role. He was given a 5 year extension to do this. Nobody expected the Sutter injury so Horvat had to play 2C too soon because they didn't have the high end depth. Well, he struggled for 7 weeks and is now coming around finally. He's -24 now but I think this has stabilized and is not getting worse. Cracknell is also a temporary fill in at 4C. He is there for the season because he is the best option for now. They like the heavy game he brings. He's a better option than Vey for this reason. It remains to be seen how Zalewski improves but his improvement seems to be a rapid one. You never know how young players come along. It looks to me like he may make the jump by next year. McCann can either take the 3C spot next year or go down to Utica. I think that he will be with the Canucks and I'm not worried about that because he has significant upside and I think that he can hold his own as 3C next year. So, if you buy that Horvat can hold his own and develop at 2C and McCann can do the same at 3C, then they are free to trade Vrbata and Sutter can take his place for the short term on RW. This has been experimented with successfully already. They have the option to bring in a free agent top 6 RW or not. At forward, I think that they are set as a developing, transitioning team for next year. This is very much a work in progress. The real holes in the line up are on D and if they move Vrbata, Prust, Vey, and Higgins, they will have north of $10M to sign free agent D or trade for one. This part gets more complicated as you look more closely at it but for this conversation, let's leave it at that. At centre, when the Sedins retire, the centre depth could be Horvat, McCann, Sutter, Zalewski. There are questions to be answered with these 4 obviously but it is something to work towards. We just don't know what opportunities will come along. Great post. I pretty much agree with your entire post. Many of the players we question eg. Cracknell , Vey and Sutter are pretty much just stop gap measures until we can see how McCann and Bo turn out. Maybe if we get real luck Dane Fox can become another Burrows. Maybe in 2-3 year he could be a 4 C for us... Right now he is leading ECHL team in pts and penaly minutes..... Not sure if his skating is developing to allow for this. Not sure if lightning can strike twice for us with a ECHL prospect of ours.. Probably not but heh i can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Vey is either here or he's there. So for now, he'll stay here, until he needs to go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 On 2/1/2016 at 11:02 AM, PhillipBlunt said: Vey is either here or he's there. So for now, he'll stay here, until he needs to go there. Can't argue with that Phil... Regarding Cracknell, I think it really has to do with management's philosophy. Will they promote another one of the kids, or do they believe they need another year with a "fill-in" center? I could see Cracknell return, if it's the latter. (or another FA/Waiver pickup) If it's the former, I think they'll promote from within, with a possible revolving door at 4C. Either way, I think we're in for another year of cellar dwelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gameburn Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 1 hour ago, chilliwiggins said: Vey was a healthy scratch last night in Calgary while all the Canucks Scouts were having a meeting with Management in Cowtown. Maybe Vey is getting traded and it would make sense to do so considering we have such a poor record in the circle. The Center position definatly needs upgrading, and I don't see Horvat ,Hank,or Sutter, and McCann, going anywhere so he would most likely be the ODD MAN OUT. Being the worst in the league at this position makes him an easy target and I personally think we need a serious upgrade in the circle. I would like to think he may be included in a package. I'll add to that the potential for Gaunce to return to Centre and play next Fall, and for one of the draft picks this year to be a viable centre in 2 years. The way the team is collapsing like they did in the Torts year -- but without Kassian to provide some backbone -- I think we could easily pick 3rd or 4th or 5th, with 8th our worst spot. DuBois would look good as a Canuck, he's a centre and ranked around 7-9. Sergachev or Chychrun if we're around 6, Dubois at 7 or 8. I am getting so excited. Shermans and Panzers oh my. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 1 hour ago, chilliwiggins said: Vey was a healthy scratch last night in Calgary while all the Canucks Scouts were having a meeting with Management in Cowtown. Maybe Vey is getting traded and it would make sense to do so considering we have such a poor record in the circle. The Center position definatly needs upgrading, and I don't see Horvat ,Hank,or Sutter, and McCann, going anywhere so he would most likely be the ODD MAN OUT. Being the worst in the league at this position makes him an easy target and I personally think we need a serious upgrade in the circle. I would like to think he may be included in a package. Do you have a source for that? The commentators stated that Willie had said it was not a healthy scratch, but didn't elaborate. They assumed an illness, or slight injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Positive Canuck Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Vey and Bart are WDs and Bennings Team Tank Captains. Hello high draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 What if Vey has been traded for Stamkos? First line center (at least to WD) for first line center. Seems legit. Make it happen Benning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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