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(proposal) VAN-TBL-PHI (3 way trade to address everyones needs)


Mr.53

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I've been sick since Saturday. it's been brutal. Because i've been bored I've been thinking of proposals we could make, even though I know they're meaningless. Still...

BTW: longish read

Johnny Drouin is on the market. But he's not the player we need. We need defensive prospects. Philadelphia has a large number of quality defensive prospects. The problem with them however, when it comes to their prospect pool, they are really only in need of elite offensive talent. Tamba Bay has a deep prospect pool as well as already young core. They're concern is winning the cup now. Johnny Drouin wasn't getting minutes in Tampa, although having elite offensive talent, because of his lack of defense. With him requesting a trade, Tampa is looking to replace him with a goalscorer with more NHL experience, and as well would like to replace him with a defensive minded prospect who is preferably NHL ready and can step in right away. Vancouver is in search of a top defensive prospect with talent, but has shown they do not want to get rid of their first round pick, or break up their new built young core. Through a 3 way trade everyones needs can be met and they only give up surplus items.

  • To VAN: Travis Sanheim, 4th round (TBL)
  • To PHI: Jonathan Drouin, 2nd round (VAN)
  • To TBL: Sean Couturier (or Brayden Schenn), Andrey Pedan, Radim Vrbata (Vancouver retains salary as needed)

Why VAN does this: Travis Sanheim is a beast. Plain and simple. He's in a organization in Philly, where they have a number of talented young defensman, making it possible to get one out. Our prospect pool is pretty much elite if you ask me. If this season/offseason, Benning is able to acquire a quality defenseman in the draft, as well as add a second one closer to being NHL ready, we will be in good shape for years to come. Sanheim is a 6'4, 200+ pound western Canadian kid. He skates very well, and has great awareness in both the offensive and defensive zone. He played with Jake Virtanen for the Calgary Hitmen as well. He has a complete game where he competes all 200 feet, and his offensive output seems to increase with his development as well. The kid basically has a full skillset and potential to be a real difference maker on the NHL level. The important thing about this trade is we don't break up the young core. We keep Demko, and all our forward prospects. We would have gone a long way to creating one of the best young cores in the league, and we would still have a first round pick to get one more stud defenseman.

Why PHI does this: Philadelphia has a plethora of defensive prospects. Right now they have Gostisberhere playing fantastic right now, with Morin, Provorov and Hagg are arriving soon. Thats 4 quality defensmen under the age of 23. Just like we saw with Nashville, they can afford to shift some of that organizational depth to fill another position. They are set on the future of their defence. Right now, Philidalphia needs an offensive spark, as well as add elite offensive talent to their future pool. They need to find a way to make offense and score. They got rid of Vinny Lecavalier, so now theres a spot open. Drouin can slot in perfectly with this organization and add immediate offensive flare. They lose a quality defensive prospect, and a quality center prospect, but they receive elite talent in return. Drouins offense can help Philly back into the playoff race, as they really aren't that far out, about 2 or 3 games I believe. Drouin gives them that boost, and can still be part of their future core, and maybe one day be a linemate of Claude Giroux. (I actually think he'd play very will with Wayne Simmonds) Philly also has some good organizational depth at center. They have Giroux, Schenn, and Laughton in the NHL already, with Konecny, Cousins, and Weal, all in the pipeline. They can afford to lose Couturier, if it means Drouin. If they would prefer Couturier, then Schenn would be a suitable replacement. They still get a 2nd round pick to sweeten the pot. They lose a lot in Sanheim and Couturier, but they gain a true eltie skill and talent in Drouin as well as a 2nd round pick. If Philly wants to give couturier the reigns on the second line, then they can move Schenn. A second line of Drouin-Couturier-Simmonds could be dangerous. Laughton will step up to 3c soon.

Why TBL does this: Tampa was just in the finals last year, yet they seem to be struggling. Guys get injured and things happen. Tampa also has a great prospect pool all around, making their focus winning the cup now, and showing Stamkos why he should stay this season. Their needs are immediate, but Yzerman doesn't want to lose Drouin for a simple veteran rental. Jonathan Drouin has also requested to be traded. Drouin has elite offensive skills, but lacks the two way sense and ability that Tampa wants. Well Sean Couturier is exactly that: Defence first mindset, but still has developing offensive ability. He could potentially be a player that sees good minutes in their system, but would be good for the franchise int he future, as he more fits their need of a defesnive center/winger, who can keep up offensively. Brayden Schenn is the other option. He's smaller, and plays a more all around game. He can still put up 40-50+ points a season playing beside Stamkos while being more defensively conscious than Drouin. Neither players are bad choices if you have to get rid of Drouin. Different skillset, but still quality. Tampa also gets Radim Vrbata, who has shown he can be a high IQ goal scorer, who has more veteran instinct in his defensive zone, than youngster Drouin. I know his plus minus is terrible this year, but I think we know it's not representative of his abilities. In a new system, contending for a cup in Tampa, he could excel. By moving Drouin tampa makes their team better both in defensive production and offensive production. Tampa also gets Pedan, a big body defenseman who could possibly get bottom minutes when injuries occur. They remain competative, or in fact, possibly become more competitive for this year, and still have young pieces in Couturier and Pedan for the future. Vrbata replaces Drouins offensive production, and will probably do better on the lightning with his veteran influence in a cup run. Couturier gives them the defense Drouin never could and is only 21. Pedan gives them more flexibility and opinon from the blueline down the stretch, (Tampa also seems to like big mobile defensman as a default. That's Pedan in a nutshell. His grit would be useful in the playoffs as well protecting Stamkos and the triplets.)

Quick Recap:

  • To VAN: Travis Sanheim, 4th round (TBL)
  • Van loses: Andrey Pedan, 2nd round, Radim Vrbata
  • To PHI: Jonathan Drouin, 2nd round (VAN)
  • PHI loses: Travis Sanheim, Sean Couturier
  • To TBL: Sean Couturier (Or Brayden Schenn), Andrey Pedan, Radim Vrbata
  • TBL loses: Jonathan Drouin,  4th round (TBL)

Ways to make it more fair? In it's base, I think it's a good deal... obviously. Every team gets the piece, or pieces, they really need, and they only give up surplus items that aren't pivotal to their franchise. But what do you think? Thoughts?

Other notes

  • I originally had Nikita Tryamkin rather than Andrey Pedan, but chose Pedan because I thought he had more value and could actually potentially help Tampa, even if a little bit, this year. If you think Tryamkin has more value they are more or less interchangable here.
  • Couturier gives more center flexibility and can soon anchor their third line for years to come. (Stamkos-Johnson-Couturier.) Or he could play left wing, and potentially move up and down the lineup. He simply fits their system better.
  • If we were to get Sanheim in this deal, I would follow by drafting another stud defensman, preferably right handed. (Dante Fabbro a realistic possibility?) Our future D core would be (Hutton and Sanheim on left. Subban and another drafted player on the right.) Demko in goal, and our top group of forwards, and our future is set.
  • Also considered trying to get JT Brown in the deal but I honestly couldn't figure out his value, and I think Tampa seems to be high on his character and development.
  • Drouin goes to a place where he will be looked to to provide major offense. Couturier or Schenn will go to a cup contending team who wants a defensive minded young player. Sanheim comes to Western Canada to play with Jake Virtanen on a team where he will be looked to, to be the man going forward. Great move and fit for all of their careers. 
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7 minutes ago, BaerOxHitman said:

Tampa bay isn't getting nearly enough for Drouin...

If you don't think so then replace Laughton for Cuturier or Schenn. 

Honestly, now thinking about it, Sean Cuturier would be more fair. Philly still gets a second. I'll edit.

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I'm not sure if Couturier is the guy Philly would want to lose in this kinda deal.  A 6'3" centre with good defensive awareness likely to put up 40-50pts in his prime is probably worth as much as Drouin if I'm the Flyers organization. 

Not sure if I see Philly throwing in Sanheim on top of that.

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5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I'm not sure if Couturier is the guy Philly would want to lose in this kinda deal.  A 6'3" centre with good defensive awareness likely to put up 40-50pts in his prime is probably worth as much as Drouin if I'm the Flyers organization. 

Not sure if I see Philly throwing in Sanheim on top of that.

Well, they can afford to lose one of Couturier, Schenn, or Laughton. Brayden Schenn also fits Tampas needs if it would work better for them. They still get a 2nd round pick in the deal too, which comes with value.

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Not bad from TB and VAN standpoint, but I think it is an overpayment for the Flyers.  My guess is Sanheim is at the top of the Flyers depth chart above Morin and Provorov.  And Drouin is not a guarantee to be that much better than Couturier/Schenn.  At least those two can play a 3rd C role, while Drouin it's top 6 or bust.

 

*** Carlo was drafted by Boston not Philly.

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6 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Not bad from TB and VAN standpoint, but I think it is an overpayment for the Flyers.  My guess is Sanheim is at the top of the Flyers depth chart above Morin and Provorov.  And Drouin is not a guarantee to be that much better than Couturier/Schenn.  At least those two can play a 3rd C role, while Drouin it's top 6 or bust.

 

*** Carlo was drafted by Boston not Philly.

Good point. I don't know why I put that. I think I meant to put Robert Hagg. My mistake. and that's very fair. If Sanheim is their number 1, I would be open to Provorov. 

With Gostisberhere showing he has NHL talent, they really only need one of Provorov or Sanheim. Drouins elite offensive ability is more of a immediate need for Philly. If they can get Drouin going, he could potentially be an all star who scores 60-70 points a season. It's all about fit.

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1 hour ago, TheLiveWire said:

I've been sick since Saturday. it's been brutal. Because i've been bored I've been thinking of proposals we could make, even though I know they're meaningless. Still...

BTW: longish read

Johnny Drouin is on the market. But he's not the player we need. We need defensive prospects. Philadelphia has a large number of quality defensive prospects. The problem with them however, when it comes to their prospect pool, they are really only in need of elite offensive talent. Tamba Bay has a deep prospect pool as well as already young core. They're concern is winning the cup now. Johnny Drouin wasn't getting minutes in Tampa, although having elite offensive talent, because of his lack of defense. With him requesting a trade, Tampa is looking to replace him with a goalscorer with more NHL experience, and as well would like to replace him with a defensive minded prospect who is preferably NHL ready and can step in right away. Vancouver is in search of a top defensive prospect with talent, but has shown they do not want to get rid of their first round pick, or break up their new built young core. Through a 3 way trade everyones needs can be met and they only give up surplus items.

  • To VAN: Travis Sanheim, 4th round (TBL)
  • To PHI: Jonathan Drouin, 2nd round (VAN)
  • To TBL: Sean Couturier (or Brayden Schenn), Andrey Pedan, Radim Vrbata (Vancouver retains salary as needed)

Why VAN does this: Travis Sanheim is a beast. Plain and simple. He's in a organization in Philly, where they have a number of talented young defensman, making it possible to get one out. Our prospect pool is pretty much elite if you ask me. If this season/offseason, Benning is able to acquire a quality defenseman in the draft, as well as add a second one closer to being NHL ready, we will be in good shape for years to come. Sanheim is a 6'4 western Canadian kid. He played with Jake Virtanen for the Calgary Hitmen as well. He has a complete game where he competes all 200 feet, and his offensive output seems to increase with his development as well. The kid basically has a full skillset and potential to be a real difference maker on the NHL level. The important thing about this trade is we don't break up the young core. We keep Demko, and all our forward prospects. We would have gone a long way to creating one of the best young cores in the league, and we would still have a first round pick to get one more stud defenseman.

Why PHI does this: Philadelphia has a plethora of defensive prospects. Right now they have Gostisberhere playing fantastic right now, Morin, Provorov and Hagg are arriving soon. Thats 4 quality defensmen under the age of 23. Just like we saw with Nashville, they can afford to shift some of that organizational depth to fill another position. They are set on the future of their defence. Right now, Philidalphia needs an offensive spark, as well as add elite offensive talent to their future pool. They need to find a way to make offense and score. They got rid of Vinny Lecavalier, so now theres a spot open. Drouin can slot in perfectly with this organization and add immediate offensive flare. They lose a quality defensive prospect, and a quality center prospect, but they receive elite talent in return. Drouins offense can help Philly back into the playoff race, as they really aren't that far out, about 2 or 3 games I believe. Drouin gives them that boost, and can still be part of their future core, and maybe one day be a linemate of Claude Giroux. (I actually think he'd play very will with Wayne Simmonds) Philly also has some good organizational depth at center. They have Giroux, Schenn, and Laughton in the NHL already, with Konecny, Cousins, and Weal, all in the pipeline. They can afford to lose Couturier, if it means Drouin. If they would prefer Couturier, then Schenn would be a suitable replacement. They still get a 2nd round pick to sweeten the pot. They lose a lot in Sanheim and Couturier, but they gain a true eltie skill and talent in Drouin as well as a 2nd round pick. If Philly wants to give couturier the reigns on the second line, then they can move Schenn. A second line of Drouin-Couturier-Simmonds could be dangerous.

Why TBL does this: Tampa was just in the finals last year, yet they seem to be struggling. Guys get injured and things happen. Tampa also has a great prospect pool all around, making their focus winning the cup now, and showing Stamkos why he should stay this season. Their needs are immediate, but Yzerman doesn't want to lose Drouin for a simple veteran rental. Jonathan Drouin has also requested to be traded. Drouin has elite offensive skills, but lacks the two way sense and ability that Tampa wants. Well Sean Couturier is exactly that: Defence first mindset, but still has developing offensive ability. He could potentially be a player that sees good minutes in their system, but would be good for the franchise int he future, as he more fits their need of a defesnive center/winger, who can keep up offensively. Brayden Schenn is the other option. He's smaller, and plays a more all around game. He can still put up 40-50+ points a season playing beside Stamkos while being more defensively conscious than Drouin. Neither players are bad choices if you have to get rid of Drouin. Different skillset, but still quality. Tampa also gets Radim Vrbata, who has shown he can be a high IQ goal scorer, who has more veteran instinct in his defensive zone, than youngster Drouin. I know his plus minus is terrible this year, but I think we know it's not representative of his abilities. In a new system, contending for a cup in Tampa, he could excel. By moving Drouin tampa makes their team better both in defensive production and offensive production. Tampa also gets Pedan, a big body defenseman who could possibly get bottom minutes when injuries occur. They remain competative, or in fact, possibly become more competitive for this year, and still have young pieces in Couturier and Pedan for the future. Vrbats replaces Drouins offensive production, and will probably do better on the lightning with his veteran influence in a cup run. Couturier gives them the defense Drouin never could and is only 21. Pedan gives them more flexibility and opinon from the blueline down the stretch, (Tampa also seems to like big mobile defensman as a default. That's Pedan in a nutshell. His grit would be useful in the playoffs as well protecting Stamkos and the triplets.)

Quick Recap:

  • To VAN: Travis Sanheim, 4th round (TBL)
  • Van loses: Andrey Pedan, 2nd round, Radim Vrbata
  • To PHI: Jonathan Drouin, 2nd round (VAN)
  • PHI loses: Travis Sanheim, Sean Couturier
  • To TBL: Sean Couturier (Or Brayden Schenn), Andrey Pedan, Radim Vrbata
  • TBL loses: Jonathan Drouin,  4th round (TBL)

Ways to make it more fair? In it's base, I think it's a good deal... obviously. Every team gets the piece, or pieces, they really need, and they only give up surplus items that aren't pivotal to their franchise. But what do you think? Thoughts?

Other notes

  • I originally had Nikita Tryamkin rather than Andrey Pedan, but chose Pedan because I thought he had more value and could actually potentially help Tampa, even if a little bit, this year. If you think Tryamkin has more value they are more or less interchangable here.
  • Couturier gives more center flexibility and can soon anchor their third line for years to come. (Stamkos-Johnson-Couturier.) Or he could play left wing, and potentially move up and down the lineup. He simply fits their system better.
  • If we were to get Sanheim in this deal, I would follow by drafting another stud defensman, preferably right handed. (Dante Fabbro a realistic possibility?) Our future D core would be (Hutton and Sanheim on left. Subban and another drafted player on the right.) Demko in goal, and our top group of forwards, and our future is set.
  • Also considered trying to get JT Brown in the deal but I honestly couldn't figure out his value, and I think Tampa seems to be high on his character and development.
  • Drouin goes to a place where he will be looked to to provide major offense. Couturier or Schenn will go to a cup contending team who wants a defensive minded young player. Sanheim comes to Western Canada to play with Jake Virtanen on a team where he will be looked to, to be the man going forward. Great move and fit for all of their careers. 

when was the last time you saw a 3 team trade in the NHL? I've been watching hockey for 30+ years and can't remember 1. Why don't you put a 3 page breakdown of a 30 team trade!

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2 hours ago, Patchoball Cannons said:

when was the last time you saw a 3 team trade in the NHL? I've been watching hockey for 30+ years and can't remember 1. Why don't you put a 3 page breakdown of a 30 team trade!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-wings-avs-lightning-three-way-trade/

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=6689

The power of google and 15 seconds. You'd be surprised at the results you find.

In case you can't open it. It's a 3 way trade that happened in 2012. It's not an exact 3 way trade from my understanding, but in essence it's possible. You really don't have to be a d*ck. People online are so insecure...

 

Anyway, I know it's unlikely. I'm not the GM. I have no say anyway. It's a proposal section, so I made a proposal. Problem?

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Pretty good proposal and I think with the tweaks that values seem fair.  The only thing I’d maybe point out is that Philly’s forward group start to lack size,  Giroux, Gostisbehere, Konecky and Drouin are 4 players that future players all 5’11 and under.  I’m not bias to size but I’m not sure how Hextall feels about it considering his more success with the flyers was with the Legion of Doom trio. 

The other things from a canucks point of view, I’d rather be going after someone to fill the future needs of the right side and preferably a more NHL ready player so that they can slot in.  Yes they cost more but it would help this team out with a transition.  I’d still focus on a D at the draft. I think we should be in a realistic position to pick up Juolevi or Sergachev. (8-14 range)

If we were to go after a close to ready NHL prospect, my first priority would be Bowey.  That way we’d have a D group of Hutton, Tanev, Bowey, Juolevi/Sergachev going forward.  That’s not to say one of our other prospects like Tryamkin, Brisebois, Olson, Neil, Subban, don’t turn out either.

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I'd rather have Morin than Sanheim. And I'd rather keep Pedan.

Maybe send Sbisa and Bartkowski in place of Pedan.

Edler Tanev

Morin Hutton

Trymakin Pedan

Biega

The defense is a tad green but once all the players acclimate to the NHL game, that is a terrifying defense from a size perspective. Akin to a meat grinder.

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1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Pretty good proposal and I think with the tweaks that values seem fair.  The only thing I’d maybe point out is that Philly’s forward group start to lack size,  Giroux, Gostisbehere, Konecky and Drouin are 4 players that future players all 5’11 and under.  I’m not bias to size but I’m not sure how Hextall feels about it considering his more success with the flyers was with the Legion of Doom trio. 

The other things from a canucks point of view, I’d rather be going after someone to fill the future needs of the right side and preferably a more NHL ready player so that they can slot in.  Yes they cost more but it would help this team out with a transition.  I’d still focus on a D at the draft. I think we should be in a realistic position to pick up Juolevi or Sergachev. (8-14 range)

If we were to go after a close to ready NHL prospect, my first priority would be Bowey.  That way we’d have a D group of Hutton, Tanev, Bowey, Juolevi/Sergachev going forward.  That’s not to say one of our other prospects like Tryamkin, Brisebois, Olson, Neil, Subban, don’t turn out either.

That's true. If you ask me, my first trade target is Madison Bowey. He's a stud righty that would fit in perfectly. The hard part is finding a team that has enough surplus to be willing to trade the player. Bowey is probably their highest valued prospect also becasue of need. Other teams with a surplus of defensive prospects would be guys Boston, maybe WPG? But I agree. If we were to get Sanheim, we would almost surely need to draft someone like Dante Fabbro, or another righty.

If I were to have this trade get done. I would draft a guy like Dante Fabbro, and then in the offseason, fill in the spot for the meantime. Maybe with either a hamonic type deal, or the free agency market.

I do see your philly point. Brayden Schenn isn't much bigger than Drouin, although he plays a more all around game. If they were to add this elite level talent, then they can focus through free agency and the draft on size. 

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17 minutes ago, TheLiveWire said:

That's true. If you ask me, my first trade target is Madison Bowey. He's a stud righty that would fit in perfectly. The hard part is finding a team that has enough surplus to be willing to trade the player. Bowey is probably their highest valued prospect also becasue of need. Other teams with a surplus of defensive prospects would be guys Boston, maybe WPG? But I agree. If we were to get Sanheim, we would almost surely need to draft someone like Dante Fabbro, or another righty.

If I were to have this trade get done. I would draft a guy like Dante Fabbro, and then in the offseason, fill in the spot for the meantime. Maybe with either a hamonic type deal, or the free agency market.

I do see your philly point. Brayden Schenn isn't much bigger than Drouin, although he plays a more all around game. If they were to add this elite level talent, then they can focus through free agency and the draft on size. 

I’m a big caps fan as well, so I’m quite familiar with their team.    Bowey would be their highest valued D prospect, but Vrana and Samsonov are top prosects as well.. Then don’t forget that Burakowsky, Wilson, Laata and even Kuznetzov and Johansen aren’t exactly aged vets.  The big point I’m making I guess with the caps is, they don’t really have a need for prospects at the moment.  Their core is young enough that there isn’t enough opening roster spaces to find them playing time.  They were able to basically give away Forsberg for nothing and feel next to no side effects in their youth pool.    I’m not saying Bowey would come cheap but I do see him being available (depending if they are using him as a signing chip in the Orlov RFA situation)

Right now Bowey making their squad isn’t exactly in the near future.  Carslon, Niskanen and Orlov are all ahead of Bowey in the right handed depth chart.  My buddy Alzner and Orpik are on the left side, but Orpik is getting up there in age although he still has some years left on his contract.  Chorney and Schmidt are more depth, Schmidt has some progress but there is room for improvement.  

Basically if we go after Bowey,  we are going to have to take back cap, improve their short term playoff chances, and give them back some future in return.  Anyways that’s my thoughts I’m Bowey.

Fabbro is a good prospect but I don’t think I would take him over Sergachev or Juolevi if we had the options.  Even though he’s a lefty, Sergachev has been pretty comfortable playing on the right side for games at a time.  So either way he fits a team need.  But if this team could add two young solid D prospects through draft and a trade i'd be ecstatic

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