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We want green for start of 2016-17


John Tortorella

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7 hours ago, John Tortorella said:

I dont drink so would have no effect. 

Been greensober since NY and WD is making me lose my mind. 

It appears that happened a long time ago. By the way if you are going to root for the guy at least do him the courtesy of starting his name with a capital letter.

Now I'm not against Green eventually becoming coach at Vancouver but let's not get carried away.

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24 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

It appears that happened a long time ago. By the way if you are going to root for the guy at least do him the courtesy of starting his name with a capital letter.

Now I'm not against Green eventually becoming coach at Vancouver but let's not get carried away.

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So losing 5 in a row and still top 8 means nothing then? Gotcha. 

 

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I hear alot of criticism about WD on how he works with kids. The major gripe around here is limiting ice time for young players. Working with kids in the NHL isnt easy and I think he has done a very good job overall.

Horvat had a fantastic rookie season, and even with limited success this season has blossomed into  major leader. With Sutter out he was thrust into a bigger role then he should have this year, and has been showing he is adjusting in the last few games.

Hutton has been playing unreal, and McCann had a good start but has cooled lately, so he gets rest and time to train. With Baer, he was supervised and at times given limited ice time. From what I saw, Baer was coached hard by WD, having been scratched after bad games and made to earn his spot. Baers game has changed drastically this season alone and has looked like (and scored like) a top 6 winger. Now I see WD treating Virt in roughly the same way... Problem?

I think he has been doing a fine job with whats available to him this season, and personally I think he's a great coach for us during our rebuild.

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1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

It appears that happened a long time ago. By the way if you are going to root for the guy at least do him the courtesy of starting his name with a capital letter.

Now I'm not against Green eventually becoming coach at Vancouver but let's not get carried away.

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Criticizing Green's record is pretty unfair when you consider how depleted his lineup has been and the fact that guys like Shink, Grenier, and Pedan keep getting called up to play limited/no games and then fly back to Utica jet-lagged.

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I still haven't seen the rationale that helps me understand on what basis Travis Green would automatically be an upgrade on WD.  He's never coached in the NHL, he's had some success in the AHL and WHL, but that was the back story on WD as well.   I think WD has done a fantastic job in the past two seasons coaching, this year has been a challenge with the limited skill in our lineup when healthy, then add in  all the injuries and it's been a patchwork job of icing a lineup almost every night.  Half the team is playing above their weightclass, then they get pilloried by some fans when they don't all play like first line players.

I don't always agree with the lineup decisions WD makes, but I'm not on the ice at practices, I'm not talking to the training and medical staff, I'm not talking to the players, I'm not meeting with the team management and I'm not privy to all the things that go into running an NHL team in transition.  What I see from my couch may not be all that is in play in the decision making. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Criticizing Green's record is pretty unfair when you consider how depleted his lineup has been and the fact that guys like Shink, Grenier, and Pedan keep getting called up to play limited/no games and then fly back to Utica jet-lagged.

I agree, but its ironic that it's ok to criticize WD even though he's dealing with similar issues.

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8 hours ago, Mattrek said:

 

While he may not have a choice that is completely besides my point and besides what you stated. You said the young guys are playing the way they are, because they're sheltered. I disagreed and pointed out them being put against the Stamkos line tonight. So are they really actually sheltered or not?

It has no bearing that willie has no choice? You think Bo wasn't sheltered as a rookie? Interesting, because WD said he was

You think he wouldn't continue to be if Sutter was playing? Of course it matters. And I also said Bo is a bit of an anomoly because he already had a pretty mature game coming into the NHL - what about EVERY OTHER PLAYER I LISTED BUDDY

But please continue to cherry pick arguments - sign of the fact you've lost the debate.

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8 hours ago, John Tortorella said:

Oh yea. PEDAN 

wins hardest shot

wins fastest skater

benched in favor of weber

1. Weber is a right handed shot / RD. We are weak on that side and Pedan is a left shot LD - it matters

2. I agree Pedan could be given a shot to spell Weber on Left D and see how he adjusts but Willie chooses differently. Perhaps because Willie feels it would be too much of an adjustment at this level for Pedan.

3. Willie isn't even likely making that decision, its likely Lidster by the way

4. But please ignore all the things I said, and I find one decision you think is wrong, without even analyzing it properly in an attempt to suggest willie hasn't been effective with the young players. Please ignore the advances pretty much EVERY ONE OF OUR YOUNG PLAYERS / ROOKIES HAS SHOWN, and suggest willie is a bad coach because he's not playing a rookie left dman over Weber.  Yes all those players are developing the right way because Willie's coaching sucks...yep you got it bro

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Injuries and rebuild aside, WD has still not performed well. I have rarely seen in game adjustments or lineup matches that work to our favour.

On top of that, we really don't seem to run any type of discernable offensive or defensive system and the special teams are terrible.

i give him a failing grade and frankly the team is getting worse under his tenure.

To top it off he plays favourites and that only makes it worse. 

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49 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I'm not criticizing WD simply because of wins/losses. I'm criticizing him for how he uses his players. 

You ever stop to think, how Willie is 'using his players' is after discussions with Benning and Trevor of how to best transition and develop their next core?

As a result, he uses his young guys in certain roles, situations etc to ensure they face a little less pressure, are brought along slowly etc, and as a result is playing vets in higher pressure situations until those young guys are ready for that pressure CONSISTENTLY?

Do you think that those young players now for the most part ALL showing great promise aren't developing because of that strategy or are they in spite of it? Willie's coaching has nothing to do with all the good we're seeing but only the bad I guess hey?

Fans here with comments like this, with fire willie, then praising the play of our youth just display their total ignorance to the sport, coaching and development. Those young players, who we are seeing blossom in front of our eyes are developing because of Willie's coaching and HOW HE HAS UTILIZED THEM.

Go read my post above it may enlighten you on how incorrect many here are about Willie.

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2 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Injuries and rebuild aside, WD has still not performed well. I have rarely seen in game adjustments or lineup matches that work to our favour.

On top of that, we really don't seem to run any type of discernable offensive or defensive system and the special teams are terrible.

i give him a failing grade and frankly the team is getting worse under his tenure.

To top it off he plays favourites and that only makes it worse. 

This

i said in gdt that i was so unexcited to see pp1 start powerplays. I was right. 

Vrbata is dead weight for everyone out there currently and 3 parimeter players on forward on the powerplay has any knowledgable hockey fan scratching their head. 

Pray for lucic 2016

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10 minutes ago, McCannon said:

You ever stop to think, how Willie is 'using his players' is after discussions with Benning and Trevor of how to best transition and develop their next core?

As a result, he uses his young guys in certain roles, situations etc to ensure they face a little less pressure, are brought along slowly etc, and as a result is playing vets in higher pressure situations until those young guys are ready for that pressure CONSISTENTLY?

Do you think that those young players now for the most part ALL showing great promise aren't developing because of that strategy or are they in spite of it? Willie's coaching has nothing to do with all the good we're seeing but only the bad I guess hey?

Fans here with comments like this, with fire willie, then praising the play of our youth just display their total ignorance to the sport, coaching and development. Those young players, who we are seeing blossom in front of our eyes are developing because of Willie's coaching and HOW HE HAS UTILIZED THEM.

Go read my post above it may enlighten you on how incorrect many here are about Willie.

I read your post, realized you didn't understand correlation from causation, and moved on. You have no idea whether the players "blossoming in front of our eyes" are doing so because of WD's coaching 'strategy'. I'm not saying they are playing well in spite of WD, I'm saying that you are acting as if the players are some amoeboid blobs that are dependent on coaching to have success. Great players do well regardless of coaching. 

By your logic, when Bo struggles, is that because of WD? If you want to attribute WD as the cause of Bo's success, you must also acknowledge that any failure must also be due to WD. So why did Bo struggle for 2+ months?

Find another coach in the league that thinks Dorsett deserves 17 minutes of ice time. You can't evaluate WD solely on how he's bringing the young guys along.

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There's always going to be decisions to disagree with, but the body of work has been impressive. We have been missing our 2C, 3 of our D and our starting goaltender for lengthy periods of time. The Canucks are also working with 4 young guys really getting their first full NHL season in Hutton, Virtanen, McCann, and Markstrom. Added to this is the 4 other players making their NHL debuts in Shinkaruk, Gaunce, Grenier and Pedan. Despite all of this we're still winning the odd game and somehow still afloat in our god awful division. 

You have to take the pros with the cons. I am with you in as much as I don't like seeing Dorsett get that much time, or Weber playing at all, and even Higgins being utilized in every situation are all mistakes. However, you can't fault Dorsett's solid play (he had a couple great scoring chances last night), or not wanting to slide in yet another rookie in Pedan over Weber. 

WD is a decent coach, adept at developing our young players; getting out coached in the playoffs is another matter. 

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