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We want green for start of 2016-17


John Tortorella

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14 hours ago, ABNuck said:

So let's punt the guy who now has a couple of NHL seasons under his belt and just start over again? Man this is following the Edmonton plan perfectly.

1/ Play bad enough to get #1 picks

2/ Bring back former players as President and GM

3/ Run a carousel of coaches through the locker room.

I don't like where this is headed...

Didn't that plan get Pittsburgh and Boston a Stanley or two?

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2 hours ago, McCannon said:

Coaches develop too. You are suggesting all these players are playing well in SPITE of the coaching sorry that is nonsense

So why couldn't all of our players play well in spite of Tortarella?

I am not saying its all WD but you can't suggest his coaching is not an important factor in getting points across and improvement.

1. Just because Baer said he didn't get it in that interview doesn't mean the next day he wasn't shown in the video

As I said, for all we know Baertschi and WD had a good communication going on, but we don't, and as fans all we have is the reports.  Exactly why I brought up Kassian, who came out and showed he had zero understanding to why he was getting scratched.  

2. You tell me you haven't see Baer's compete level in the corners improve under WD? You think his 200 ft play hasn't improved since he got here? Did he just decide that? Or was it pointed out to him in video?

I've seen a player playing with more confidence.  One that's not as hesitant to make plays, one that's thinking less and relying on his own instincts.  Baertschi is a highly skilled player, it's not like he's made it this far in pro sports without learning compete level.  Again WD himself stated that Baertschi's biggest different in his play is when he got PP icetime.  Why is that, it wouldn't have anything to do with a coach showing trust in you would it?  WD comments not mine.  

3. You use hypotheticals to say WD Isn't a good coach - would Sven have got the shot. Well no wingers are hurt so yes and the reason he is getting the ice is because he is playing the way the coaches want him to after drilling it into him

Sven got more opportunity,  Svens biggest break out moment this year was the detroit game when Hank, Burr, and Higgins were all out of the line up.  After some extended opportunity playing regular minutes in the games prior, his shot at being the go to guy came.   

4. As for Bo, of course WD would have been hesitant, he'd never seen him play, he's new in the league and has a desire to win. As you saw with Bo, as Bo started showing he could handle more he gave him more responsibility. You want to disconnect where Bo and all these players are today from how they've been brought along

 This just shows how personal you are taking this.  I never said anything about Bo's progress but yet you basically loose your mind about something that was never said.  I think WD has done a good job with Bo bringing up the 19 year old slowly.  This season with injuries has put Bo into a more difficult situation but he's done good,  lots of credit to WD for Bo.  But again if WD has his way, the current team wouldn't be filled with youth 20 and under.

For someone who states they've played competitively you have very little respect for coaching and seem to think its more of an impediment.

Yes, I do, a coach can play a huge role in a persons confidence, but politics effects every league, yes even the NHL, coaches play favorites and the coach doesn't have all players (and there development) in his best interest.  Don't believe me go have a listen to Vey's interview he gave at the canucks golf tourney this year. I've also seen this first hand, I walked out on my midget team because my coach was an idiot and only played his favourites. I walked onto a junior team the next year, and lead the league in points a few years after, helping some good players get draft into the NHL.  

I disagree with this view. Players development is the coaches responsibility. Players are developing. Anyone who's played at the level you claim to would typically understand that, its surprising you don't.

Some players do, lots don't.  It's surprising you can't see that.  Brian Sutter did a pretty good job taking a 20 year old iginla and developing him in to a point per game player, but at the same time he also didn't do a very good job handling another player who was not resigned after miss use and went on to have a very good career of his own in tampa.  a guy by the name of Martin St. Louis.. It's not so black and white like your making it.

When I was drafted and the few games I got in the pros tells me coaching is a very big part of how players develop. We agree to disagree

It's funny, apparently Green is great at developing players so I guess he's allowed to get credit for our young guys, but when we see drastic improvements right in front of our faces within 40 games, WD get's none of the same respect, because hell, its not coaching, its the player right?

Laughable

Laughable is how upset you are getting over this.  I never said WD is bad at developing players, I just said I think he's handles the Sven situation (as well as Kassian) poorly.

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17 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Laughable is how upset you are getting over this.  I never said WD is bad at developing players, I just said I think he's handles the Sven situation (as well as Kassian) poorly.

1. Not upset at all :) its a game

2. I disagree on Sven and give WD credit for 'getting through' him, to get Baer playing the right way he needs to play to be a valuable part of this team both now and in the future - again you don't seem to want to accept that how the coach has handled him has played a big part in the success we're seeing. Perhaps go and read what the knocks were on him in Calgary and, see how his game has changed and maybe then you'll realize coaching is just as much about what is taught on the ice in practice, in the video room, as it is getting 'through to a player' to adjust his game. You ignore much of all of that, I don't.

3. Kassian? Really? that's your argument? A kid who was (sadly for him) likely coming to practice hung over or potentially worse? Kassian who himself has said he has been given enough chances and feels fortunate to still have another chance? really? Ok, well I guess AV/Torts all were to blame too for Kassian's (again unfortunate) addictions and personal problems

Please man give it a rest you're making yourself look really stupid with that last comment.

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1 hour ago, McCannon said:

1. Not upset at all :) its a game

2. I disagree on Sven and give WD credit for 'getting through' him, to get Baer playing the right way he needs to play to be a valuable part of this team both now and in the future - again you don't seem to want to accept that how the coach has handled him has played a big part in the success we're seeing. Perhaps go and read what the knocks were on him in Calgary and, see how his game has changed and maybe then you'll realize coaching is just as much about what is taught on the ice in practice, in the video room, as it is getting 'through to a player' to adjust his game. You ignore much of all of that, I don't.

3. Kassian? Really? that's your argument? A kid who was (sadly for him) likely coming to practice hung over or potentially worse? Kassian who himself has said he has been given enough chances and feels fortunate to still have another chance? really? Ok, well I guess AV/Torts all were to blame too for Kassian's (again unfortunate) addictions and personal problems

Please man give it a rest you're making yourself look really stupid with that last comment.

You seem pretty upset.

So are you telling me that without WD and his magical touch, sven would have never succeeded? Seems to me even the head coach acknowledges the success of sven this season.  WD's own words.  

"I think the big thing for Beartschi was getting a chance on the powerplay, that just made him feel like...that was his game, that's what he was waiting for, that's what he is excited about. And I think that helped him take off offensively" 

I don't see WD saying anything about,  "he's worked really hard on area's that we've the have pointed out",  That's you assuming that. The coach stated that it was once he got an opportunity his confidence grew.  Funny, since Green has said the same thing about Baertschi this summer.  WD also said that Sven has played strong defensively all year.  But you ignore that right?

Yes he had some things said about him in Calgary, yes in Calgary he was playing with little confidence, although he did go on a few good stretches where he'd play complete games.  Yes there were areas that he needed help with and Green worked with him in the AHL....to get his confidence back up.  He's never going to be a complete player, he's always going to be learning.

Yes Kassian, because kassian played good games and then got no reasoning as to why he was a healthy scratch the next game.  Whether he had a drinking issue or not, that shows zero communication.  You're just assuming WD sat down with Sven in a one on one and explained the situation, i'm using the only factual evidence we have. 

For someone who say's he was drafted seems to have a very poor understanding of in game hockey knowledge. Let me guess, big at a young age, and could throw the mits.  Can you honestly say you've never seem a player miss used, or not get the ice time that he probably deserved.  Or even the opposite of seeing a player that didn't deserve the ice time get put into position that he shouldn't have been? I've seen it on almost ever team i've ever played on, so yes it happens at all levels.

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