Rebuilding the Defense (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

There are so many different scenario's that could change the Canucks draft position, injuries, Edmonton,  Anaheim, San Jose, Calgary, Arizona, if 2 of those teams wins down the stretch, we will most definitely will be out of the playoffs, and  probably pick somewhere between 10th to 14th.

Now I have thrown this out before, but trading Edler and Vrbata, would truly change our rebuild speed and in the end put us back in a contending position much sooner than, if we didn't.

My position for this Post is that we do an all defense draft, first 2 round's, now we won't get all the cherry's, we would do very well.............

Again, without Edler and Vrbata, our Draft position slides into the 5th to 8th spot, so ......Maybe lower

Now looking at the young Defensemen available, they are very much all over the first round, they are as follows:

1. Chychrun ranked 3 OA     1st Choice after Matthews

2. Juolevi ranked 9th OA       2nd Choice if we have a lower pick (4th -8th OA) We will most likely get Juolevi anyways with our first Round

3. McAvoy  11th OA

4. Fabbro    12th OA

5. Sergachev   13OA

6. Bean   19th OA       Take Bean unless you can pick Segachev with our Edler  (Ottawa's Pick)

7. Clague   22 OA

8. Krys    29th OA          Try to move up and get Krys with Columbus's second ( we will have to convince them with an extra pick)

 

Now, yes if we get 1st OA we take Matthews, but after that our game should be one of stock piling Dman where we can

My position is we trade Edler to Ottawa for 2016 1st, 2017 1st, and 2016 2nd or numerous other teams that would produce the desired picks

I really want Chabot and 2016 -1stOA........just not getting him out of there

In Ottawa's case, they would end up somewhere near the 18th spot, in other senario's we may end up with a much better 2016 pick, but for this case, we will take we take their 18th

Take Day in the 2nd round.............with the Canucks 2016 2nd round pick

 

Juolevi, Bean, Krys, and Day would be an incredible draft, and IF you could add Chabot, you could pull this off, it would be worth it!

 

Picking up UFA Yandle for $21,000,000 for 3 years and we would be at the same spot we would with Edler, in terms of a veteran Dman, if not him Green, Buff........would you not do this?

I think Bill Belichick would!

And theoretically, we could move either our 2017 1st or Ottawa's at the 2016 draft....adding even more depth.

 

In the end all I am suggesting is that there are quicker options to out rebuild...........how and who we pick is dependent to where we sit with our picks

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Edler for 2 first round picks? I don't think that would happen.  

If we're trading Edler it should be for a young already NHL proven top 4, preferably a right handed shot, not for a pick in the 15-20 range, too many of those picks never amount to top 4 players.  

If we pick in the 8-14 we should get one of Sergachev or Juolevi.  Edler for a right handed D sets us up for the long term,

Joulevi Tanev

Hutton Gudbranson

Pedan Sbisa.

Tanev being the oldest

Also where did you get your D rankings from, I don't think i've seen any with McAvoy ahead of Sergachev or Fabbro

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=797221

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2016/

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/

[Winter Soldier]

Edler has a no trade clause and has already said he won't wave it.

[McCannon]

I think we're picking closer to 5-8 actually. Most of the teams behind us have games in hand. This road trip will be a make or break for us and I have a feeling we are going to come out of it in a very tough position, and as a result will see a couple of moves at the deadline (Hammer and Vrbata at least)

As a result, losing those 2 will have an impact an almost certainly guarantee a early pick in my view. I think we'll be top 5 personally.

My view is this.

Vrbata and Hammer to Florida/Anaheim/Nashville/Colorado/Ottawa/Arizona (a few teams here I am assuming they are in it). All have cap space and I can see Florida (the way the are playing), Nashville, being very serious about acquiring both these guys, Anaheim if they are back in it for sure (which they look to be soon), Arizona if they feel they want to take a run (and Vrbata played there a long time), Ottawa if they are in it, Colorado the same.

Key here is to trade BOTH players to the same team to try and extract a Grade A prospect and a First round pick. I believe this is very fair given arguably both of these players should fetch a first rounder based on past year comps and the fact that most teams are aware they are extremely valuable players and have alot left in the tank if playing with some talent as well.

I would love to see us move them Washinton for Bowey and a first but they are up against the Cap so we'd have to take somthing back. Not sure if that's doable

Anaheim - try for Theodore and a first. While Theodore in impressing and will be a talent, Anaheim knows their window is NOW, and the next 2-3 years. They keep getting close but can't get over the hump due to depth- here's a packaged answer. On top of that, the Ducks have Fowler, Vatanen and Lindholm. Their need for another young puck mover is limited if not redundant.

Florida - Try for Crouse and a first. Again , similar issues here in that he is redundant given their young line up. Florida has a terrific chance this year and will want to make a splash because they have a chance and it will draw the fans back. Their attendance has been piss poor even with such a great season. They need a run, and this helps them tremendously. Arguably puts them right up there with Washington in terms of depth and talent.

Nashville. Similar issues as Anaheim. Keep getting close, can't break over the hump. With the acquisition of Johansen their middle is solidified but they are still a bit weak on the wings in terms of offensive depth. Hammer and Weber reunited could be a great depth provider for them as well as now you have Josi on the second line. That team will be a threat to get to the cup. Try for their first and solid prospect like those mentioned above (not sure of their prospect pool).

Based on what comes from that trade 1st and a forward or 1st and a dman we'd have

Top 5 pick (ours)

Pick around 20-30

Second ours

Dream would be to get Theodore then have that top 5 to grab someone like Tkachuk, or Laine (assuming we're that high)

Late first we take Bean or Day, whomever is around

[goblix]

Trading Edler for even 2 firsts aka.. unknown commodities would make the last 2 years of the Sedins contract a wash... may as well go full tank mode and trade them too.

It takes a very special type of d-man to immediately transition into the NHL from the draft year.

[flickyoursedin]

The Canucks are gonna be saving a ton of cap space on young contracts I think throwing money at Byfuglien is the way to go. Snag some d in the drafts but they'll take a while to develop until then spending our cash on defence is the bandaid we are forced to take I feel.

Edler Tanev

Tryamkin Byfuglien

Hutton Sbisa

[TheSnipeshow91]

Hamhuis+ Vrbata for Matheson, 17' 3rd and a 16' 1st from Florida. Draft Chychrun and McAvoy. Luke Green in the 2nd round.

[WHL rocks]

Signing big money UFA rarely works out and Canucks will have to overpay even more to get him here, this is a rebuilding team in Canada. Those are two big hurdles to get a top tier UFA. 

I'd go with bpa in the 1st round of draft and as many Dmen possible after that. Sign a 2nd tier Dman or two in the summer and maybe decent player along with a cap dump in a trade. 

[Toews]

I would sign Hamhuis and trade Vrbata for 2nd + decent prospect. The reason for that is Hamhuis has a NMC and I am going to guess he wants to retire as a Canuck. So rather than force a player like him to move, you re-sign him and allow him to be a mentor on the blue line.

Also for free agency I would see whether those available are willing to sign reasonable contracts. If not, go bargain bin hunting and be content that you didn't just &^@# up your cap situation to acquire a shiny new toy. 

There are a no quick fixes, no one is going to give up their top prospects for rental players well into their 30s. The sad part is that many posters on here think it is just a matter making your players available and you will have suitors lining up willing to toss their best assets in your direction. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

17 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

Signing big money UFA rarely works out and Canucks will have to overpay even more to get him here, this is a rebuilding team in Canada. Those are two big hurdles to get a top tier UFA. 

I'd go with bpa in the 1st round of draft and as many Dmen possible after that. Sign a 2nd tier Dman or two in the summer and maybe decent player along with a cap dump in a trade. 

Hey, I want to thank you all for not ripping me a new one on this post!

Although I used Edler as an example, and probably the one that would be work best, there are many reasons why we should do this.

#1. There are several UFA's that are either greater or equal to Edler, so the loss in talent would not be great, if at all

#2. We will have plenty of Cap space to sign a higher end UFA, if we actually want to do that

#3. The gain in assets would be large

#4. It seems that the draft age defensemen are spread out throughout the first round, making it easier to pick them off

Consider, the possible outcome of a trade like this:

Buff or Yandle(UFA's), Chabot and 2016 1st, + for Edler

That is considerable asset gain.......I do no see how this is a negative for the Canucks?

In addition, the Canucks will have a 2016-1st of their own + plus a possible 31 OA from Columbus

I understand and agree on picking the BPA, but because there seems to be a good number of defenseman slated for the first round, they are scattered quite evenly through the first round, so a team going out to fill their defensive cupboards, would be able to, and still not straying too far off of BPA.

The future could be a very full defensive prospect cupboard all done with one trade, and all in one year. The benefit is we then open the possibilities for trading talent for talent, aka Johansen for Jones type of trade in later years.

You are right WHL Rocks, we are in rebuild,  but this type of move, moves us light years ahead in our schedule, without any change in your current team skill level.....minus one questionable last 2 months before the playoffs, and loosing out in any playoff games, cause by Edlers trade at the deadline.

It is my view that this is 2 "free" first rounder's

Again all, thank you for allowing me to sit down! LOL

[A NEW BEGINNING]

It is a good argument, which would probably take some overpayment. Really, when you think about it, it would be pretty quick rebuild if you could add a defensive prospect as part of the deal (aka Chabot, Bowey, Morrisey, Theodore etc, type players)

I actually think some of the post I have read are debatable????? In no particular order

1.  Bowey, 2016 1st, plus  for Edler (Wouldn't be enough, unless the plus was bigger)

2.  Chabot, 2016 1st (top 3 protected), Cowen for Edler ......probably about right

3.  Morrisey, 2016 1st for Edler couldn't happen .....too much cap for Winnipeg

4.  Theodore, 2016 1st, plus plus for Edler ...........Anahiem would really have to over pay

But when you put them all together on paper, probably not a good idea......maybe Ottawa's

[messier's_elbow]

If we take Juolevi with our first rounder, I'll be very happy. 

[LateNightBus]

[If we take Juolevi with our first rounder, I'll be very happy]

.Michail Sergachev looks like he will be a good choice also. Should the Canucks consider a smaller faster draft pick D like Dante Fabbro: 6"0  172 pd'

"Slick defender who PP QB are excellent. Very creative with the puck on the attack and a very strong skater who can spin off pressure."

--Bill Placzek--

It seems the stronger teams have bigger players

 

[Noble 6]

OK, I know this is pretty crazy, but I want to know what you guys think.

 

We all know that Hamonic has asked for a trade, and will only be moved for a defenseman of similar caliber. But one guy I think we've all forgotten about because of the Hamonic situation is Ryan Pulock, also from the Islanders. He is the one that will likely be promoted once Hamonic is traded. He is a young defenseman who was drafted in 2013 (same as Horvat). He is big, strong, physical and can skate and really, I mean REALLY rip the puck. He is also right-handed, which is a bonus. NYI has no incentive to move him, as he is the likely call-up once Hamonic is moved.

 

The Canucks need defensive help both now and in the future. Hamonic and Pulock are both of those things. It would be almost impossible to get one of them out, let alone both. We have the asset (Tanev) to land Hamonic, but could we add more to get Pulock as well?

 

To NYI:

Tanev

Hamhuis (50% retained)

Vrbata (50% retained)

Higgins

Briesbois

2nd Round Pick 2016

3rd Round Pick 2017

 

To VAN:

Hamonic

Pulock

Cal Clutterbuck (cap balancer)

Steve Bernier (cap balancer)

 

Vancouver Cap Space Post Trade: 1.817,857 million

New York Cap Space Post Trade: 0.778,167 million

 

 

The deal is basically has two main parts:

 

Tanev + 2nd/3rd for Hamonic

 

and

 

Hamhuis (50%) + Vrbata (50%) + Higgins + Briesbois + 2nd/3rd Round Pick for Pulock

 

The Islanders add an effective replacement for Hamonic and 3 veterans for a Playoff run. They also get a defense prospect and two mid to high later round picks. They can move on from Hamonic with a good replacement and load up for a Playoff run. At the end of the year, Hamhuis' and Vrbata's contracts expire, which gives them the needed flexibility to resign Strome, Nielson, Martin, Cizikas and Mayfield among others.

 

The Canucks do a redundant/slight increase move in acquiring Hamonic, and acquire a key piece for the future defense core. Hamonic can effectively step in and replace Tanev's minutes beside Edler, with Pulock possibly stepping in next year. They get two big pieces for now and later. Pulock could be the perfect partner for Hutton in 2-3 years. Pulock could be the physical, defensive defenseman while Hutton is free to move and skate the puck.

 

Canucks Lineup Post Trade:

 

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

Baertshci - Horvat - Hansen

Etem - Sutter - Virtanen

Prust - McCann - Dorsett

Cracknell, Vey

 

Edler - Hamonic

Bartkowski - Biega

Hutton - Sbisa

Weber, Pedan

 

Miller

Markstrom

 

Canucks Defense Prospects:

 

Hutton - Pulock

Tryamkin - Draft

Pedan - Subban

 

I would make this move all day, and possibly even add more to ensure we get Pulock as the main piece and Hamonic. The Islanders would only trade Pulock if the Hamonic situation is dealt with, so we deal with it. I know it's pretty crazy, but what do you guys think?