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Are we destined for more physical domination?


alfstonker

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45 minutes ago, Cowardrobertford said:

Not necessarily big, but at least gritty and won't back down. 

That was the problem with the team at their peak -- when played physically and aggressive, they would fold like a cheap tent.  Most of the guys JB is bringing in are not the back-down type.  He's very clear he expects them to "stick up for each other".

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Bo , Virtanen, Etem,  Boeser, all protect the puck very well with their body and all still have their best years well in front of them. Like it or not Lucic will probably be landing here in the Offseason. Pedan and Tryamkin will soon be filling out our bottom 6 on the backend. That's quite a few power guys for the future. We will also need skill players que Mcann, Hunter, Baer, Subban,  all of which have potentially elite scoring prowess and all of whom except maybe Baer (who is getting better at it) aren't afraid to go to the dirty areas and battle in the trenches. I think if Benning can do something about the defence at the draft and in the offseason we can turn this ship around and get back into the postseason with guys who can elevate their games when the going gets rough for years to come. 

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I'm not crazy about bringing Lucic in, but if he's cleaned up his act he would certainly help in the role that he plays.  That's also dependent on what options are out there in free agency.  We'll have a big chunk to spend this year and at least another $10mil next year as well.  We have a good stable of young forwards, so hopefully the majority of that will be spent on overhauling the D.

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Personally I would pass on Lucic due to salary he is likely looking for. The guy I would like to see them bring in would be Matt Martin, for the 3rd/4th line. Let Prust walk and Dorsett & Martin support the younger guys in the bottom six.

 

Maybe with some of the silly contracts out there another Erhoff situation might come up where a team has to move a guy and with the Nucks cap space it would give them an edge in a trade. There fore save the $$ on a long Lucic deal.

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20 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

That was the problem with the team at their peak -- when played physically and aggressive, they would fold like a cheap tent.  Most of the guys JB is bringing in are not the back-down type.  He's very clear he expects them to "stick up for each other".

What games were/are you watching. Did you watch the run in games to the SC Final Series. Fold like a cheap tent? You should be hauled up in court for libel.

This is what sickens me about some of our fans. I don't know if it's ignorance (no disrespect intended) or just not understanding the game but to accuse the 2010-11 team of folding like a cheap tent is so dumb I wonder if you actually watched hockey then.

Now to this present generation. I like the skills of our players but to say MOST of the guys JB is bringing in is a hell of a stretch of the imagination. 

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I think if you look at it objectively - ie look at the strongest conference - the Central - and the best teams in the NHL - there isn't really a correlation between biggest and best.

That said, I think that currently, with guys like Sbisa, Sutter, Hammer out of the lineup, they are leaning on Weber, Vey - not particularly gritty, sizeable players - more than we'd like to see.

However, I don't really see cause for any alarm, and moreover, guys like Jake and Emerson add size, speed and upside, Pedan adds significant edge, etc.  I think really, we're a move or two and a healthy roster away from being where we want in the shorter run, but they've also been drafting skilled size in Boeser, Tryamkin....

It does pain me to see Zack in a Coiler jersey.  That's just the way it rolled out, but teams like Florida would be far more hesitant to be beaking the Sedins if they had Zack smiling in their faces.

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What exactly are you looking for?  Push back? Non perimeter players? Emotion? Or intimidation.

To me, it sounds like you want intimidation.

If you want push back/emotion, than Bo, Jake and McCann have shown that,  even JB was praising McCann for sticking up to Getzlaf.  They aren’t necessarily intimidatiing but they won’t stand down to the other team… AKA neither would let Marchand rag doll them. 

On top of that, they are the types of players that aren’t afraid to go into the hard areas,  we’ve seen Horvat and his ability to be a power forward and Jake is built that way.  Now keep in mind that these are still kids.  19 & 20 years old playing against men.  Wait 3-4 years and see them dominate. 

If you’re looking for intimidation, than look no further than the Russian bash brothers, we have Pedan and Tryamkin on the back end coming up.  We’ve already seen Pedan ability to hit and fight at the NHL level in the limited minutes he played.

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21 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

What games were/are you watching. Did you watch the run in games to the SC Final Series. Fold like a cheap tent? You should be hauled up in court for libel.

This is what sickens me about some of our fans. I don't know if it's ignorance (no disrespect intended) or just not understanding the game but to accuse the 2010-11 team of folding like a cheap tent is so dumb I wonder if you actually watched hockey then.

Now to this present generation. I like the skills of our players but to say MOST of the guys JB is bringing in is a hell of a stretch of the imagination. 

Kind of ridiculous that you think of the 10-11 team as being a physical team, but I guess that's your attempt at justifying their dominance, when their dominance was the result of how highly SKILLED they were. Also get the impression that you seem to think that physicality and physicality alone win you games, and that skill is inconsequential.

BOTH ARE IMPORTANT.

And add on to that, character as the third central ingredient, and that is basically exactly what GMJB is acquiring.

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Etem is a pretty good addition to the heavy game that Benning wants. Even though we are struggling this season (hopefully we get a top 5 pick) I don't think we are that far away from being 'up there' again.

If Bo, McCann and Virtanen take a further development step next year and we get a FA Dman we should be playoff bound.

a year or two after that then who knows.

Cant wait for Demko to hit the bigs, he's going to be a superstar in Van.

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There is regular season and then there are playoffs. Gauging how competitive the Canucks are for serious CUP play by looking at their regular season play is hardly reliable. That said the Capitals did not really have to work that hard to beat the Canucks last night. If they had played a physical game Van would have had a tough night.

Speed and skill is a aspect of the game that is essential. All things equal I want a Virtanen delivering the speed and skill. Bottom line smaller guys cannot handle the physical play as well and bigger players can have just as much skill. It is a mix and a use of what is available.

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Patience!

Matthias out Jake in (+ physicality)

Bieksa out Bartowski in (- physicality)

Higgins out Etem in (+ physicality)

Bo finding his game (+ physicality)

Boeser draft (+ physicality)

Sbisa signed (+ physicality)

Weber still playing (- - - physicality)

Aside from a couple of black marks, from what I've seen Benning is well on his way to building his fast, tough team.  It takes time though, and most teams aren't willing to part with those types of players very easily.  Not all of these guys can throw hits like Jake or Sbisa, but they are all big guys that are hard to knock away from the puck.

 

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Vancouver is currently forging the team around Horvat.I like how they have selected some fast kids that are edgy so far.You won't solve the problem getting that kid that wins the heavyweight title in junior because to have that playoff juggernaut your scorers need to also be your hitters.The top six has to be kids with push back .If you put a high end offensive talent up there he has to be surrounded by guys that will cause enough physical mayhem that he goes about his business unaffected.I hope Vancouver can pull some extra high picks because so far I like the cut of the young guys they are adding.Four of your top six that get seven to ten hits in a playoff game would be devastating.

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I'm not too concerned. Right now it's all about our new core and how they are going to play. That's the whole point of our transition phase. We have a pretty good group of forwards that can play physically or skillfully. They may not cause fear in the other team (except Virtanen), but they won't be bullied at all. 

 

Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen

Shinkaurik - McCann - Boeser

Gaunce - Cassels - Etem

 

That is not an easy group to play against, especially on the top line. Our defence is another story though. Once we actually 2-3 good prospects we can evaluate.

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3 hours ago, nergish said:

Before the trade, I was really looking forward to seeing Kassian's role on the team as a "young leader". Obviously there were issues that Benning simply could not see around, and I can't really blame him for moving someone with those kinds of off-ice issues, but I honestly do think that if we had known how physically dominant Jake Virtanen would be as a rookie, we would have kept Kassian for another year. My reasoning there being that Kass isn't just tough in the name of honour (standing up for teammates), he's a literal bully on the ice. When you have someone as physically gifted as Jake, you want them to see the ice as "theirs"... have other players on the ice always always worrying about where he is. He and Kass could have been the bash bros, and voila... we're no longer an easy team to play against.

It pleases me to no end knowing that, even if Jake goes through a scoring slump at any point throughout his career, he could potentially just snap and take an opponent out of the game. I just get the sense that at some point in the distant future, he's going to make an impact on a  game or even series without even hitting the scoresheet (points, of course, would be nice too).
 

But yeah, that's a lot of pressure on one guy. We need some more big bodies out there, especially on the back-end. 
 

Virtanen is already drawing penalties and making the players around him better, freeing up space, etc.  And his playmaking is improving -- he made a couple of nice quick decision passes a couple of games back -- against Fla I think.  If Vey had better finish, they'd have had a couple.  And all this after the World Juniors (surely, a bit stressful) -- the kid is going to be a terrific player.

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I'm not particularly worried about where this team is trending on the physicality question.  The present, particularly our defense, does justify this concern, but I think it will be fixed with a good FA signing this summer and the promotion of Pedan and hopefully Tryamkin.  Crease-clearing, goalie protection, and a bit of snarl from our D would certainly make us a better club. 

What I like about our more physical players like Bo, Virtanen, Etem, and Pedan is that they all have skill and can skate.  Gaunce and Grenier are similar, perhaps a bit less physical but still play a heavy game that will wear other teams down.  Fix our D and we'll be a whole lot better.

Looking back on the 2011 SCF, it's not at all clear that "the Boston model" has prevailed either on our club or in the league.  We dominated because of speed, and more than ever that is at a premium in the league today.  LA combines speed with size and Chicago doesn't:  take your pick but either way, you have to skate.  I like where we're going and if our D can come around to what our forwards are, we'll be a very tough team to beat. 

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4 hours ago, Jack Fig said:

It takes time...you can't see all the parts of the end-game yet. You draft talent and character...physicality can be added through free agency provided you have the money for it. But to get a sense of what could happen in that department, I would prefer to see more of Gaunce, Grenier and Pedan sooner rather than later in the process.

I know what you mean about free agency. Last year, for example, we grabbed Weber and Bartkowski right on the first day of free agency.

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