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B.C. Mens Only Charity Group Draws Criticism


DonLever

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20 minutes ago, Dral said:

The Gender wage gap is non-existent and no real economist takes it seriously...

More men are raped annually in the US and Canada then women.

Women get sentenced to half the prison term for the exact same crime as men.

Despite representing close to half the number of victims of domestic violence, there are almost no resources for men - yet if you're a woman you will have a warm bed in a safe place tomorrow if you so choose.

Women have a 2 to 1 advantage when looking for a job simply because companies want to appear PC or have a quota to fill. Men are often more qualified to work in a particular job, yet won't get it over a woman.

There are advocacy and support groups EVERYWHERE for women, from university campuses to government groups and yet when a support group for men pops up, it gets yelled at as being sexist.

 

 

If you really think men face no serious disadvantages in society today, you are living in a fantasy world. I really could go on, the list is staggering...

You sound like you have a massive chip on your shoulder to be honest.

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Anyways, I don't support the woman in the op's story worrying about this charity group (Though I do support many feminist causes) but holy crap.  The reaction by some here is ridiculous.

Geez, look out. One day women will get to vote even. Who knows what will happen?

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45 minutes ago, Dral said:

The Gender wage gap is non-existent and no real economist takes it seriously...

More men are raped annually in the US and Canada then women.

Women get sentenced to half the prison term for the exact same crime as men.

Despite representing close to half the number of victims of domestic violence, there are almost no resources for men - yet if you're a woman you will have a warm bed in a safe place tomorrow if you so choose.

Women have a 2 to 1 advantage when looking for a job simply because companies want to appear PC or have a quota to fill. Men are often more qualified to work in a particular job, yet won't get it over a woman.

There are advocacy and support groups EVERYWHERE for women, from university campuses to government groups and yet when a support group for men pops up, it gets yelled at as being sexist.

 

 

If you really think men face no serious disadvantages in society today, you are living in a fantasy world. I really could go on, the list is staggering...

 

Ok so do you have any data to back up the bolded ?

 

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4 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

Do you honestly think that's fair to the feminists who have worked hard to integrate men into the movement since the end of the second wave?  Did you really think the feminist movement was going to be one unified struggle when there are 3.5 billion women in the world?

There is still gender equality everywhere.  Women are still making less than what men are despite the same job and qualifications.  I think it's gone from .60/1 to .70/1, but it's still there.  There are men and women out there who are fighting for EQUAL WORTH.  Some feminists want women to take the same path as men, and some think differently.  But the feminist movement as a whole isn't trying to usurp power from the men.  Power isn't some finite resource where we play a game of tug-of-war.

Feminists do NOT look down at men who defend them.  It's these blanket statements and an overall fear and hatred of feminism which fuels its own cause.

You actually just pointed out my exact closing statement

 

we don't NEED feminism here in the west anymore.


We need equality.  

 

Deal with it

 

As well, I suggest you look around.  There are more, so many more than a few well known feminists that don't only look down on men, but also women based o the way they display themselves and live their lives.

 

There is a vast difference between what Feminism was and what is has evolved in to which is why you see so many more intelligent women moving towards women's and equal or human rights vs feminism.

 

I need feminism in this day and age like I need another person demanding I respect Bruce Jenner for the change he went through, more than they demand I respect my average every day person.

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10 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

 

Do you honestly think that's fair to the feminists who have worked hard to integrate men into the movement since the end of the second wave?  Did you really think the feminist movement was going to be one unified struggle when there are 3.5 billion women in the world?

There is still gender equality everywhere.  Women are still making less than what men are despite the same job and qualifications.  I think it's gone from .60/1 to .70/1, but it's still there.  There are men and women out there who are fighting for EQUAL WORTH.  Some feminists want women to take the same path as men, and some think differently.  But the feminist movement as a whole isn't trying to usurp power from the men.  Power isn't some finite resource where we play a game of tug-of-war.

Feminists do NOT look down at men who defend them.  It's these blanket statements and an overall fear and hatred of feminism which fuels its own cause.

Women also take a much larger amount of time off of work to care for their children and elderly and sick family members. Obviously someone who works less is going to make less. And bosses quite reasonably are not going to select the person who's not dedicated to their career for raises and promotions. When controlling for these factors the pay disparity is in effect not there.

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6 minutes ago, Dr.Strangelove said:

 

Ok so do you have any data to back up the bolded ?

 

I do, and if I wasn't so drunk I'd find it... the rape stat is mostly because of the prison stat

 

 

 

 

Let me be perfectly clear - 60 years ago, we needed feminism... 30 years ago we needed feminism... even maybe 15 years ago we needed it... now however, it has in a very real sense turned into a man-hating club that is completely out to lunch...  but yeah, check out some Christina Hoff Sommers videos on youtube, she backs up everything she says with links to studies and stats

 

 

And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this for personal reasons

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2 minutes ago, Dral said:

I do, and if I wasn't so drunk I'd find it... the rape stat is mostly because of the prison stat

 

 

 

 

Let me be perfectly clear - 60 years ago, we needed feminism... 30 years ago we needed feminism... even maybe 15 years ago we needed it... now however, it has in a very real sense turned into a man-hating club that is completely out to lunch...  but yeah, check out some Christina Hoff Sommers videos on youtube, she backs up everything she says with links to studies and stats

 

 

And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this for personal reasons

Sounds like someone lost out on something to 'a girl' and he's pretty butthurt about it.

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2 minutes ago, Dral said:

I do, and if I wasn't so drunk I'd find it... the rape stat is mostly because of the prison stat

 

 

 

 

Let me be perfectly clear - 60 years ago, we needed feminism... 30 years ago we needed feminism... even maybe 15 years ago we needed it... now however, it has in a very real sense turned into a man-hating club that is completely out to lunch...  but yeah, check out some Christina Hoff Sommers videos on youtube, she backs up everything she says with links to studies and stats

 

 

And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this for personal reasons

And that's a valid, legitimate and logical reason to paint ALL feminists with the same brush? Uhhhm, no.

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2 minutes ago, inane said:

Sounds like someone lost out on something to 'a girl' and he's pretty butthurt about it.

 

Sounds like someone is trying to troll me but isn't smart enough to do it properly... keep trying bud, maybe you'll provoke me eventually

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Just now, Dral said:

 

Sounds like someone is trying to troll me but isn't smart enough to do it properly... keep trying bud, maybe you'll provoke me eventually

I don't care if I provoke you, this whole angst of yours is so ludicrous, it's just funny. 

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2 minutes ago, Cerridwen said:

And that's a valid, legitimate and logical reason to paint ALL feminists with the same brush? Uhhhm, no.

 

I just said that a self-described libertarian feminist is one of my major sources... do you REALLY think I then believe ALL feminists are evil, man hating whiny hags? Uhhhm no.

 

 

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Just now, Dral said:

I do, and if I wasn't so drunk I'd find it... the rape stat is mostly because of the prison stat

 

 

 

 

Let me be perfectly clear - 60 years ago, we needed feminism... 30 years ago we needed feminism... even maybe 15 years ago we needed it... now however, it has in a very real sense turned into a man-hating club that is completely out to lunch...  but yeah, check out some Christina Hoff Sommers videos on youtube, she backs up everything she says with links to studies and stats

 

 

And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this for personal reasons

When you sober up I'd be very interested in seeing that.

I will simply state that I disagree that it's " turned into a man-hating club"  this however is based on my own experiences.

im 100% for equality across all people regardless of race , gender , religious beliefs or any other defining characteristics. With that in mind I obviously greatly dislike extremist feminists.  

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1 hour ago, Down by the River said:

Feminists are like Americans. The only ones that you notice are loud and obnoxious. All the rest you assume are Canadians.

Ok, I chuckled at that.

But feminism, much like many other things, has been misappropriated and given a bad rap as a result. Anyone who supports equal rights regardless of gender can be a feminist. You can be in support of men's rights as well, but so long as you recognize that women don't have equal rights (e.g. lesser pay for the same job) yet feel they should then you align with what feminism is supposed to be about.

Don't call it feminism if you think the term is now synonymous with a negative and aggressive aspect of the women's movement. Call it whatever makes you happy.

 

But not to derail from the article, which is really only about making sure men aren't segregating themselves to increase power and control. There were even comments in the article basically about how it's fine if they're doing charitable things, but if it's really an excuse for them to network and exclude women then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Simple solution: while the men and women's 100s meet once a quarter on their own, why not have them meet together another night to discuss the direction of charities chosen? Or maybe better yet, have the pre-charity-decision-making socializing intermingled between the two, then each group can go and hear presentations from charities that are important to them as individual groups.

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2 minutes ago, Dral said:

 

I just said that a self-described libertarian feminist is one of my major sources... do you REALLY think I then believe ALL feminists are evil, man hating whiny hags? Uhhhm no.

 

 

And yet here you are with this statement:

Quote

And yes, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this for personal reasons

Which is it? You can't sit on both sides of the fence at the same time.

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3 minutes ago, Dr.Strangelove said:

When you sober up I'd be very interested in seeing that.

I will simply state that I disagree that it's " turned into a man-hating club"  this however is based on my own experiences.

im 100% for equality across all people regardless of race , gender , religious beliefs or any other defining characteristics. With that in mind I obviously greatly dislike extremist feminists.  

And I think we can all agree we all dislike extremist Islamists. Does that mean we have to hate Islam as a corner stone to what the extremists have become? Of course we recognize they aren't inextricably linked but rather very separate ideas.

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Just now, Cerridwen said:

And yet here you are with this statement:

Which is it? You can't sit on both sides of the fence at the same time.

I can't have a chip on my shoulder against whiny nags who spout lies and call themselves the same thing as others who are grounded in logic and equality?

I'm not on both sides of the fence - Feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers, who debunk the lies, fear mongering and man-hating propaganda spewed by loud, angry women are great. Feminists who are more about equality then superiority are great.

 

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36 minutes ago, One one two said:

Women also take a much larger amount of time off of work to care for their children and elderly and sick family members. Obviously someone who works less is going to make less. And bosses quite reasonably are not going to select the person who's not dedicated to their career for raises and promotions. When controlling for these factors the pay disparity is in effect not there.

Geez, that's terrible. Women might have 1 or 2 kids on average but are in their career for most of their adult lives. Some choose not to have kids at all. Maternity leave is such a small portion of that yet they're still paid less - by that token, should a man who chooses to take paternity leave and even continue it for longer than the mother does be paid less because he's working less? Is he less dedicated to his career because of that?

Obviously for someone paid by the hour, this all works itself out. But for someone salaried at a specific job, unless they chose to take unpaid time there shouldn't be any reason for that up front salary to be any different.

Even more obviously, the inverse for equality also has to be true. Just because males (white males particularly) haven't dealt with inequality in the same way, it doesn't mean they should be treated unfairly.

 

But glad we're sticking with the article on this one and not derailing into feminism...

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6 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

And I think we can all agree we all dislike extremist Islamists. Does that mean we have to hate Islam as a corner stone to what the extremists have become? Of course we recognize they aren't inextricably linked but rather very separate ideas.

There are some on here who would viciously disagree with this statement sadly. I personally think that this and that comment about Americans are both A+ posts

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5 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Geez, that's terrible. Women might have 1 or 2 kids on average but are in their career for most of their adult lives. Some choose not to have kids at all. Maternity leave is such a small portion of that yet they're still paid less - by that token, should a man who chooses to take paternity leave and even continue it for longer than the mother does be paid less because he's working less? Is he less dedicated to his career because of that?

Obviously for someone paid by the hour, this all works itself out. But for someone salaried at a specific job, unless they chose to take unpaid time there shouldn't be any reason for that up front salary to be any different.

Even more obviously, the inverse for equality also has to be true. Just because males (white males particularly) haven't dealt with inequality in the same way, it doesn't mean they should be treated unfairly.

 

But glad we're sticking with the article on this one and not derailing into feminism...

 

Men also work longer work weeks on average then women... do you think it's fair that a 2 individuals, regardless of sex, should be paid the same amount of money, when 1 of those individuals routinely works 45 hours a week, while the other works 40 hours, takes time off for personal reasons, etc?

 

 

Heres another great video

 

 

 

 

shes got a REALLY awesome closing statement

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