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Saskatchewan school in lockdown after shooting.


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1 hour ago, peaches5 said:

Okay, this is just a idiotic statement. Stabbing someone takes a lot more guts than shooting them. Stabbing someone you feel them die. Shooting someone, like charles manson said, is just pointing a gun at someone pulling the trigger and then they're gone.

I think you missed the point.

The gun didn't decide to shoot someone, a person did. The person is responsible no matter what tool they used. At least I think that's what Alf is trying to say. 

As to your Manson point...running someone over with a car is pretty gutless too, is the car to blame or the driver?

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14 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

I think you missed the point.

The gun didn't decide to shoot someone, a person did. The person is responsible no matter what tool they used. At least I think that's what Alf is trying to say. 

As to your Manson point...running someone over with a car is pretty gutless too, is the car to blame or the driver?

Alf is saying guns should be locked in a safe place, when not in use.  However, if someone finds a gun that is not properly secured, and chooses to go shoot people with it, that gun not being locked, in no way, absolves them of complete guilt.   A gun is a tool, with a specific purpose.  If one chooses to use it, they are the ones completely responsible.  

People are responsible for their actions.  We are the ones who think, and make choices.  

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52 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

I think you missed the point.

The gun didn't decide to shoot someone, a person did. The person is responsible no matter what tool they used. At least I think that's what Alf is trying to say. 

As to your Manson point...running someone over with a car is pretty gutless too, is the car to blame or the driver?

I think you missed the reality though.

 

At days end, a gun firearms GUNS were created with and for 1 purpose.  To kill.

 

A car is meant to drive, to convey to deliver going from point a to point b

 

A spoon is used to eat

 

A pencil is made tow rite

 

A gun is made to kill

 

I hunt, I use guns to do it.  I do not disapprove of guns or gun ownership.  I just loathe how people constantly make statements like that.  At days end, firearms were made to kill period.  Blaming a person for a crime is as bad as excusing the weapon they committed it with.

 

At days end said person could not have committed this shooting without a gun, at days end said gun could not be wielded by someone without intent.  But again, guns were made for 1 single sole purpose.

 

Killing

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1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I think you missed the reality though.

 

At days end, a gun firearms GUNS were created with and for 1 purpose.  To kill.

 

A car is meant to drive, to convey to deliver going from point a to point b

 

A spoon is used to eat

 

A pencil is made tow rite

 

A gun is made to kill

 

I hunt, I use guns to do it.  I do not disapprove of guns or gun ownership.  I just loathe how people constantly make statements like that.  At days end, firearms were made to kill period.  Blaming a person for a crime is as bad as excusing the weapon they committed it with.

 

At days end said person could not have committed this shooting without a gun, at days end said gun could not be wielded by someone without intent.  But again, guns were made for 1 single sole purpose.

 

Killing

Does the spoon make you fat too?

I have a gun that's not designed to kill, it's, sole purpose, purely a sport (skeet) shooting firearm.  It's also very dangerous and could be used to kill if someone wanted.

 

You're also missing the what.  A gun is made to kill, what?  Are today's bolt action rifles designed to kill humans?.  Each caliber is made for specific animals, For instance I wouldn't take a 22 LR and go after a grizzly or a moose.  Just as I wouldn't use my 7mm on a gopher.  And that's just rifles.  Shotguns are another story with another purpose.. aka waterfowl

Just as a spoon is not designed for steak, and fork is not designed to for soup, todays guns (for sale in canada) are not designed to kill humans.

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1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

I think you missed the reality though.

 

At days end, a gun firearms GUNS were created with and for 1 purpose.  To kill.

 

A car is meant to drive, to convey to deliver going from point a to point b

 

A spoon is used to eat

 

A pencil is made tow rite

 

A gun is made to kill

 

I hunt, I use guns to do it.  I do not disapprove of guns or gun ownership.  I just loathe how people constantly make statements like that.  At days end, firearms were made to kill period.  Blaming a person for a crime is as bad as excusing the weapon they committed it with.

 

At days end said person could not have committed this shooting without a gun, at days end said gun could not be wielded by someone without intent.  But again, guns were made for 1 single sole purpose.

 

Killing

What difference does it make what weapon they use?  If they use a baseball bat would we be discussing how to lock them up? Regardless of what something is designed for, if it is used to murder someone, the victim is just as dead and the crime just as  evil. Blaming guns somehow seems to absolve the perpetrator.

Anything can be used to kill whether designed for that specific use or not.  It is the person who chooses the tool and takes the action that is to blame not the tool. 

The majority of violent crime in Canada, including murders, are carried out without the use of a firearm.  Yet whenever a shooting takes place, the talk goes to gun ownership restrictions and regulations.  It's a mugs game.  If someone wants to murder someone and doesn't have a gun, will that stop them? Never has.

I loathe how every time some nutter shoots someone the millions of law-abiding gun owners in Canada become the target for more restrictions, bans and the "need" for more regulations.  As I posted earlier...the father of the woman killed at Polytechinque said..., a gun didn't kill his daughter, a deranged man did.

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4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I think you missed the reality though.

 

At days end, a gun firearms GUNS were created with and for 1 purpose.  To kill.

 

A car is meant to drive, to convey to deliver going from point a to point b

 

A spoon is used to eat

 

A pencil is made tow rite

 

A gun is made to kill

 

I hunt, I use guns to do it.  I do not disapprove of guns or gun ownership.  I just loathe how people constantly make statements like that.  At days end, firearms were made to kill period.  Blaming a person for a crime is as bad as excusing the weapon they committed it with.

 

At days end said person could not have committed this shooting without a gun, at days end said gun could not be wielded by someone without intent.  But again, guns were made for 1 single sole purpose.

 

Killing

In a hypothetical situation, if the student went on a rampage with a katana.... an item designed for killing, so should that be banned?

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5 hours ago, Lancaster said:

In a hypothetical situation, if the student went on a rampage with a katana.... an item designed for killing, so should that be banned?

A katana would be an item that isn't permitted at a school so in a sense it already is banned.

 

these debates are never ending.  Nonetheless I don't understand the: 

gun vs (insert any other inanimate object here) comparison.

 

who would you rather square off against? A ninja turtle or Rambo?

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12 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Does the spoon make you fat too?

I have a gun that's not designed to kill, it's, sole purpose, purely a sport (skeet) shooting firearm.  It's also very dangerous and could be used to kill if someone wanted.

 

You're also missing the what.  A gun is made to kill, what?  Are today's bolt action rifles designed to kill humans?.  Each caliber is made for specific animals, For instance I wouldn't take a 22 LR and go after a grizzly or a moose.  Just as I wouldn't use my 7mm on a gopher.  And that's just rifles.  Shotguns are another story with another purpose.. aka waterfowl

Just as a spoon is not designed for steak, and fork is not designed to for soup, todays guns (for sale in canada) are not designed to kill humans.

So to be clear.  Your skeet shooting rifle/gun was created originally for the sole purpose of sport shooting right?  Hundreds of eyars ago that was the sole intention of the people who created guns and firearms was to ensure that generations later they would become sport items?

 

And Spoons as you said were totally created with the sole intention of feeding people and making them fat.

 

Really?

 

Again, guns were created to kill.  Period.  There's no arguing that and I am sure you realize that your statement is proving my point to a tee

 

a 7mm to kill a what?  A bolt action to kill a what?  I notice you don't mention how they are made for creating, decorating or the like.

 

Just as a spoon is designed for eating and a fork is designed for eating a gun is designed for...wait for it

 

SHOOTING/KILLING

 

Todays guns are not designed to kill humans...dude...come on, you're smarter than that

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9 hours ago, Lancaster said:

In a hypothetical situation, if the student went on a rampage with a katana.... an item designed for killing, so should that be banned?

In a hypothetical situation carrying around a 2 foot long sword is going to get you a lot of attention and will get you busted without the same loss of life a gun will, as you have to catch and then manage to kill what you're trying to kill.

 

A gun is as simple as opening your coat drawing and pointing at what you want dead.

 

I have big issues with people who seem to feel smart or smug about making statements like these.  Again I am quite ok with guns, I am pro gun in most instances but kidding yourselves that guns were not, are not meant to kill is ludicrous.  A katana is also a weapon, but in this day and age a laughably poor one and yes in fact it IS banned as well from public use for very common sense reasons but isn't banned for the same reason guns aren't

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9 hours ago, Lancaster said:

In a hypothetical situation, if the student went on a rampage with a katana.... an item designed for killing, so should that be banned?

That's just stupid. The point of a gun in these situations versus a sword, knife, bat, etc. is a gun can be used quickly and efficiently particularly at range to kill and injure people. That's why they are the weapon most common in attacks that result in high rates of death and injury.

Also, a sword of any kind is just an evolution on a cutting edge. Cutting edges, like knives, most common uses are not for causing harm, where for guns their most common use is for just that. Only with alternate designs are guns not used for that purpose (i.e. target shooting).

Don't ignore all the common sense around why guns are dangerous to try and make a point that is, frankly, absurd.

EDIT: but this is the same argument that keeps happening over and over, and yet what we hear in the news with the largest degree of injury and death over and over is someone using a gun to attack someone else.

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50 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So to be clear.  Your skeet shooting rifle/gun was created originally for the sole purpose of sport shooting right?  Hundreds of eyars ago that was the sole intention of the people who created guns and firearms was to ensure that generations later they would become sport items?

 

And Spoons as you said were totally created with the sole intention of feeding people and making them fat.

 

Really?

 

Again, guns were created to kill.  Period.  There's no arguing that and I am sure you realize that your statement is proving my point to a tee

 

a 7mm to kill a what?  A bolt action to kill a what?  I notice you don't mention how they are made for creating, decorating or the like.

 

Just as a spoon is designed for eating and a fork is designed for eating a gun is designed for...wait for it

 

SHOOTING/KILLING

 

Todays guns are not designed to kill humans...dude...come on, you're smarter than that

The guns that were first created and my skeet shotgun are completely different guns. The only similarity is that both are called guns, but does that mean my air gun is also designed to kill?

Maybe you truly don't know much about firearms even tho you said you hunt. But No today's firearms (for sale in Canada) are designed for specific animals. Different caliber/gauge for different purposes. Your painting a mighty big brush over firearms to support your argument and its failing. Are all knives the same? a fillet knive vs skinning knive vs throwing knives vs machete. All complete different purposes. 

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48 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

That's just stupid. The point of a gun in these situations versus a sword, knife, bat, etc. is a gun can be used quickly and efficiently at range to kill and injure people. That's why they are the weapon most common in attacks that result in high rates of death and injury.

Also, a sword of any kind is just an evolution on a cutting edge. Cutting edges, like knives, most common uses are not for causing harm, where for guns their most common use is for just that. Only with alternate designs are guns not used for that purpose (i.e. target shooting).

Don't ignore all the common sense around why guns are dangerous to try and make a point that is, frankly, absurd.

So what are you proposing? What the purpose of this discussion?  Canada already has a ton of firearm restrictions are you purposive more?  Or even banning, Is that going to solve anything. I'm just curious to what your stance is. Otherwise why post. 

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33 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

The guns that were first created and my skeet shotgun are completely different guns. The only similarity is that both are called guns, but does that mean my air gun is also designed to kill?

Maybe you truly don't know much about firearms even tho you said you hunt. But No today's firearms (for sale in Canada) are designed for specific animals. Different caliber/gauge for different purposes. Your painting a mighty big brush over firearms to support your argument and its failing. Are all knives the same? a fillet knive vs skinning knive vs throwing knives vs machete. All complete different purposes. 

So..to clarify my man

 

They're made for hugging animals?  Caressing them?  Brushing their fur?  Are you saying those guns made for specific animals aren't capable of killing people?

 

You're kind of missing the point here or intentionally obfuscating.  Guns are made to kill.  They literally serve NO other purpose.  Skeet shooting?  Ok so it is made to shoot disks out of the air, but much like the knives you tried to compare guns too

 

Guns are made for shooting/killing.  Knives are made for stabbing/slashing/cutting.

 

This is why I hate when people use this argument, because they show capably they are unable to understand something so very simple.

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26 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

So what are you proposing? What the purpose of this discussion?  Canada already has a ton of firearm restrictions are you purposive more?  Or even banning, Is that going to solve anything. I'm just curious to what your stance is. Otherwise why post. 

There are many who believe if we disarm the public (because they don't understand why anyone needs a gun these days) we will have a peaceful society with lower violent crime.

The fact that the exact opposite has happened in every country that has done this (England, Australia) does not dissuade them from the pursuit of their dream.  Violent crime increases in societies where the citizens are not able to defend themselves.  Criminals prey on the weak, it's no secret.  They also do not abide by the laws so when you disarm the public, you make it open season for violent criminals. 

Of course, there is also the political advantage of disarming the public, Hitler and Stalin did it and it made achieving their aims significantly easier.

Back on topic, what happened in Sask. is a tragedy and the pain that small community is feeling unfathomable.  I hope they can find a way to heal the wounds.

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5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So..to clarify my man

 

They're made for hugging animals?  Caressing them?  Brushing their fur?  Are you saying those guns made for specific animals aren't capable of killing people?

 

You're kind of missing the point here or intentionally obfuscating.  Guns are made to kill.  They literally serve NO other purpose.  Skeet shooting?  Ok so it is made to shoot disks out of the air, but much like the knives you tried to compare guns too

 

Guns are made for shooting/killing.  Knives are made for stabbing/slashing/cutting.

 

This is why I hate when people use this argument, because they show capably they are unable to understand something so very simple.

What's simple is that in all murders, the common denominator is the human using whatever tool is expedient. Any tool can be said to be made for killing if it is capable of doing so.  Your argument is an attempt to be clever and deflect the issue around human culpability in cases of murder.

No weapon will kill unless a human wields it.  The responsibility is with the human not the tool.

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3 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

What's simple is that in all murders, the common denominator is the human using whatever tool is expedient. Any tool can be said to be made for killing if it is capable of doing so.  Your argument is an attempt to be clever and deflect the issue around human culpability in cases of murder.

No weapon will kill unless a human wields it.  The responsibility is with the human not the tool.

No weapon except guns serves only 1 purpose.  Possibly the bow and arrow/crossbow.  every other weapon by and large can serve multiple purposes.

 

Guns do not.

 

It isn't being clever it's fact.  Unless you can capably display to me how a gun makes a good hammer, cutting utensil etc.

 

Does it take a human being wielding it, yes.  That isn't what is being debated.

 

it is the USE and CREATION of said weapon.  What other purpose was it created for?  What other purpose does it serve?

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Just now, Warhippy said:

No weapon except guns serves only 1 purpose.  Possibly the bow and arrow/crossbow.  every other weaponsserves multiple purposes.

 

Guns do not.

 

It isn't being clever it's fact.  Unless you can capably display to me how a gun makes a good hammer, cutting utensil etc.

 

Does it take a human being wielding it, yes.  That isn't what is being debated.

 

it is the USE and CREATION of said weapon.  What other purpose was it created for?  What other purpose does it serve?

  What are you saying? that all killing is bad therefore guns should be banned?  That if we banned guns murder rates will reduce? Because facts prove you wrong. Read what I said about the outcome of stricter gun laws.

You appear to be intent on getting an acknowledgement that guns are meant to kill...okay, sure, I'll give you that but without the human yielding them, they are harmless.

I am sure the people in Saskatchewan would feel no better about what happened if the perp used a machete or bomb. 

 

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1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

So to be clear.  Your skeet shooting rifle/gun was created originally for the sole purpose of sport shooting right?  Hundreds of eyars ago that was the sole intention of the people who created guns and firearms was to ensure that generations later they would become sport items?

 

And Spoons as you said were totally created with the sole intention of feeding people and making them fat.

 

Really?

 

Again, guns were created to kill.  Period.  There's no arguing that and I am sure you realize that your statement is proving my point to a tee

 

a 7mm to kill a what?  A bolt action to kill a what?  I notice you don't mention how they are made for creating, decorating or the like.

 

Just as a spoon is designed for eating and a fork is designed for eating a gun is designed for...wait for it

 

SHOOTING/KILLING

 

Todays guns are not designed to kill humans...dude...come on, you're smarter than that

Your missing the point and its a really simple concept. I know your smarter than than. Skeet gun have next to nothing in common with the guns that were invented hundred of years ago. I also do not see people killing each other in Canada with guns that were invented hundreds of years ago. No they are modern firearms. Again I'll ask you the same question I asked Elvis. Whats the purpose of your post are you suggesting Canada should instrict tougher firearm regulation? Banning firearms completely? Because right now that post a just filler. 

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