Canucks - Who is our next Core ?

[Googlie]

43 minutes ago, mll said:

Where are you getting your stats because according to NHL.com Chris Tanev only has 16 hits (0.4 per game) over the season.  He does lead in blocked shots though with 111.

hmmm - you are right.  I think I was getting 8 and 18 mixed up in my counting  (I went to game 1 in the schedule, brought up the boxscore and logged the hits, then repeated for every game.  Tedious task (cos I couldn;t find that stat anywhere else)

But I googled and found this:

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks-team-stats?season=2015&seasonType=1&category=DEFENSE&type=1&position=0

I stand corrected ... sloppy detective work on my part

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Googlie said:

hmmm - you are right.  I think I was getting 8 and 18 mixed up in my counting  (I went to game 1 in the schedule, brought up the boxscore and logged the hits, then repeated for every game.  Tedious task (cos I couldn;t find that stat anywhere else)

But I googled and found this:

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks-team-stats?season=2015&seasonType=1&category=DEFENSE&type=1&position=0

I stand corrected ... sloppy detective work on my part

Tanev is real good at taking hits to free up pucks though.  Plus, he uses body position, and a real good stick to separate guys from pucks.  He's a real good player, who doesn't have to be hitting guys to be real good.

[kingofsurrey]

11 hours ago, Aleksander Barkov said:

Anything less than a 1st for Vrbata is not acceptable

[kingofsurrey]

Hopefully we can find a team looking for a   34 yr old    -20 Vrbata at the deadline  for a  late 1st or a second.

The way he is playing this year, his stock is dropping. I do not understand why management does not play him with the sedins and Coho his goal production so we can get some value back on the trade. Right now is market value is record low. Poor strategy IMO. 

[TheFastOne21]

Edler has 102 blocked shots, about 75 hits and 20 points on a terrible defense team. Place him in a decent system where he is not required to be the number 1 d-man and he will shine just fine in my opinion. He would arguably be one of the better 2-4 d-men in the league.

Minimum for Edler should be a NHL future capable prospect and a 2nd rounder to any contending team.

However, if we lose Edler then we literally have no defense. Tanev is great but has no offense and only a top 4 guy at best as a result. Hutton still needs more time to develop into top 4 roles. Sbisa, Weber, Bartkowski are all 5-7 d-men. We lose Edler and we instantly become even worse of a team than we already are on defense. The Utica prospects need more time as well and even then some only project optimistcally as top 4. Our biggest problem is having 2 top 4 d-men and a whole bunch of 6-7 d-men playing top 4 roles.

[HC20.0]

11 hours ago, Alflives said:

Mcdavid

Eichel

Bennett

Barkov

I like JBs job so far too, but it would be nice to add a guy (or two) of this level up front too.

Not for lack of trying on JB's part, he really pushed hard for Ekblad/Reinhart. Just haven't gotten lottery luck yet. Perhaps that'll change this year though!

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, HC20.0 said:

Not for lack of trying on JB's part, he really pushed hard for Ekblad/Reinhart. Just haven't gotten lottery luck yet. Perhaps that'll change this year though!

I wonder if one of the smart math posters (yourself?) could figure out our chances to win a top three pick if we have our own 7th pick and another team's 12th pick?  Would you just add the two percentage chances together?  I would really like JB to get us 3 picks in that coming lottery.  

[mll]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

hmmm - you are right.  I think I was getting 8 and 18 mixed up in my counting  (I went to game 1 in the schedule, brought up the boxscore and logged the hits, then repeated for every game.  Tedious task (cos I couldn;t find that stat anywhere else)

But I googled and found this:

http://www.foxsports.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks-team-stats?season=2015&seasonType=1&category=DEFENSE&type=1&position=0

I stand corrected ... sloppy detective work on my part

I just use the NHL.com website:  http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&report=realtime&season=20152016&gameType=2&sort=gamesPlayed&aggregate=0&teamId=23&pos=S

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Here's the deal. Horvat looks good, as a 2nd liner;

this leaves McCann as a 3rd liner/1st liner,

Gaunce as a 4th liner along with Cole Cassels.

Virtanen looking like a 2nd/3rd line max;

Hunter Shinkurak - could be 2nd/1st line.

Baerstchi 2nd/3rd line 1 season doesn't make a player.

Greiner who the Canucks should give a freaking shot but won't. would have been a good 3rd liner eg a Martin Hanzal type of player.

Subban - coin flip could turn out to be a future Yanick Weber but a bit better or could crack the top 4.

Boeser- lol hahahaa! hype train is real on this guy, he will be a career 3rd liner/2nd meh? 

The biggest problem with our core, the young one that is in our drafting pool is drum rollllllll. They lack real elite game breaker type of players, because they never draft in the top 5. AGAIN this yeear we will draft 10th, which is cool,meh but if there is a skilled crafty player the Canucks' will always end up drafting another 3rd/2nd line guy (eg A responsible player, who can grind the boards, look at teams like Washington draft guys like Kuneztov, Blues- take Tarensko, Pheniox - took Merkley, Philly took Konecy) Does this current mangement fear drafting a crafty guy who is not a 2-way guy? Boeser himself said in his interview im a 2 way guy! WHEN will we draft some crafty players. 

 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

Here's the deal. Horvat looks good, as a 2nd liner;

this leaves McCann as a 3rd liner/1st liner,

Gaunce as a 4th liner along with Cole Cassels.

Virtanen looking like a 2nd/3rd line max;

Hunter Shinkurak - could be 2nd/1st line.

Baerstchi 2nd/3rd line 1 season doesn't make a player.

Greiner who the Canucks should give a freaking shot but won't. would have been a good 3rd liner eg a Martin Hanzal type of player.

Subban - coin flip could turn out to be a future Yanick Weber but a bit better or could crack the top 4.

Boeser- lol hahahaa! hype train is real on this guy, he will be a career 3rd liner/2nd meh? 

The biggest problem with our core, the young one that is in our drafting pool is drum rollllllll. They lack real elite game breaker type of players, because they never draft in the top 5. AGAIN this yeear we will draft 10th, which is cool,meh but if there is a skilled crafty player the Canucks' will always end up drafting another 3rd/2nd line guy (eg A responsible player, who can grind the boards, look at teams like Washington draft guys like Kuneztov, Blues- take Tarensko, Pheniox - took Merkley, Philly took Konecy) Does this current mangement fear drafting a crafty guy who is not a 2-way guy? Boeser himself said in his interview im a 2 way guy! WHEN will we draft some crafty players. 

 

Agreed.  We need to draft elite talent: 2 forwards and 1 D.  

[kingofsurrey]

16 minutes ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

Here's the deal. Horvat looks good, as a 2nd liner;

this leaves McCann as a 3rd liner/1st liner,

Gaunce as a 4th liner along with Cole Cassels.

Virtanen looking like a 2nd/3rd line max;

Hunter Shinkurak - could be 2nd/1st line.

Baerstchi 2nd/3rd line 1 season doesn't make a player.

Greiner who the Canucks should give a freaking shot but won't. would have been a good 3rd liner eg a Martin Hanzal type of player.

Subban - coin flip could turn out to be a future Yanick Weber but a bit better or could crack the top 4.

Boeser- lol hahahaa! hype train is real on this guy, he will be a career 3rd liner/2nd meh? 

The biggest problem with our core, the young one that is in our drafting pool is drum rollllllll. They lack real elite game breaker type of players, because they never draft in the top 5. AGAIN this yeear we will draft 10th, which is cool,meh but if there is a skilled crafty player the Canucks' will always end up drafting another 3rd/2nd line guy (eg A responsible player, who can grind the boards, look at teams like Washington draft guys like Kuneztov, Blues- take Tarensko, Pheniox - took Merkley, Philly took Konecy) Does this current mangement fear drafting a crafty guy who is not a 2-way guy? Boeser himself said in his interview im a 2 way guy! WHEN will we draft some crafty players. 

 

You do realize that both hank and danny had 9 goals there first season and got to play in 82 games with some great icetime/matchups. I am not sure if anyone would have predicted they would be future hall of fame players...... All time Canuck leaders. 

Predicting our young guns to be 2nd or 3 rd liners in the the future is silly.  It way to early to know exactly what we have with Sven, Virtanen, McCann.    Time will tell.      They could develop into future hall of fame starts or be out of the league in 2-3 year.  It will really exciting to see exactly what type of players  they develop into  - 1st line - 4th liners or  Europe to play.

Time will tell...

[gameburn]

17 hours ago, McHortanen said:

While its great to have them players its also not to great. Great players come with huge price tags. Just think about edmonton for a second. 

 

When McDavids ELC is up he will get 8-10M. So between him, Eberle, RNH, Hall that will be pushing 30M for 1 1/3 of a line. Then u think about draisitl, nurse, and all the other young stars they will be forced to make a bold move that may come back to haunt them. If i were them i would move RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov now and try and fill out their D, because if they wait too long they will be in a situation where said players will HAVE to be traded and other GMs will use that as a negotiation tactic to low ball them.

Not saying i wouldnt want a top 3 pick but its not a for sure need.

 

For example: Call me crazy but i wouldnt pay 10+M for Stamkos. Too much $on 1 player, But thats just my opinion and we all got our own. Not trying to argue your point, it is a good 1 and theres nothing wrong with it.

I agree.

The way the cap and Entry Level Contracts work together is that both youth and good players for the buck really matter.  We may not yet have seen a genuine cap/elc team of the new order -- LA was promising, but they seem to have caved a bit on the money issue: we'll see with how they handle Lucic and eventually their Toffoli/Pearson class of players.  "Stars" mattered in the pre-cap world; they may not matter as much or in the same way as they used to -- at least in terms of paying them big bucks past the age of 29/RFA status.  I think it is worthy considering building a team with a lot of Pearsons and Toffolis -- or our equivalents: Horvat and Hutton. 12 very good players, 8 more almost as good, maybe a backup goalie that can do enough to genuinely save the team in case of a Carey Price type injury season.  And almost entirely built through the draft.  This is where the Drouins and Yakupovs begin to look not only over-priced but over-rated as well.  Even at the draft stage.

[Jeaves]

8 hours ago, hlinkas wrister said:

Definite category one. An appreciating asset.

Agreed, can only go up from here.

[Hortankin]

1 hour ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

Here's the deal. Horvat looks good, as a 2nd liner;

this leaves McCann as a 3rd liner/1st liner,

Gaunce as a 4th liner along with Cole Cassels.

Virtanen looking like a 2nd/3rd line max;

Hunter Shinkurak - could be 2nd/1st line.

Baerstchi 2nd/3rd line 1 season doesn't make a player.

Greiner who the Canucks should give a freaking shot but won't. would have been a good 3rd liner eg a Martin Hanzal type of player.

Subban - coin flip could turn out to be a future Yanick Weber but a bit better or could crack the top 4.

Boeser- lol hahahaa! hype train is real on this guy, he will be a career 3rd liner/2nd meh?

The biggest problem with our core, the young one that is in our drafting pool is drum rollllllll. They lack real elite game breaker type of players, because they never draft in the top 5. AGAIN this yeear we will draft 10th, which is cool,meh but if there is a skilled crafty player the Canucks' will always end up drafting another 3rd/2nd line guy (eg A responsible player, who can grind the boards, look at teams like Washington draft guys like Kuneztov, Blues- take Tarensko, Pheniox - took Merkley, Philly took Konecy) Does this current mangement fear drafting a crafty guy who is not a 2-way guy? Boeser himself said in his interview im a 2 way guy! WHEN will we draft some crafty players. 

 

He does look like a future elite winger for sure. Will he live up to that? Maybe, maybe not. However i think his floor is a really good 2nd line sniper. Dude has a lot of skill when it comes to sniping and he is also very well positioned away from the puck. So to suggest he is a 3rd liner/2nd meh? Is just crazy. Especially for someone who over hyped sanguinetti so much lol

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

2 hours ago, McHortanen said:

He does look like a future elite winger for sure. Will he live up to that? Maybe, maybe not. However i think his floor is a really good 2nd line sniper. Dude has a lot of skill when it comes to sniping and he is also very well positioned away from the puck. So to suggest he is a 3rd liner/2nd meh? Is just crazy. Especially for someone who over hyped sanguinetti so much lol

teams find real elite STUDS in the first line Pheniox - DOMI, Detroit - Larkin. Canucks' have a tendency to find 2 way players in the 1st round, need I say more? Especially when Konecy and Merkley were on the board, we went with a 2-way player again why?

[Alflives]

Just now, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

teams find real elite STUDS in the first line Pheniox - DOMI, Detroit - Larkin. Canucks' have a tendency to find 2 way players in the 1st round, need I say more? Especially when Konecy and Merkley were on the board, we went with a 2-way player again why?

I don't know.  Could it have anything to do with the last six Cup winners having elite two way players leading their teams to those Cups?   Bergeron, Kopitar, and Toews.  Larkin is actually an excellent two way player.

[desiboynux4lifee*******]

Just now, Alflives said:

I don't know.  Could it have anything to do with the last six Cup winners having elite two way players leading their teams to those Cups?   Bergeron, Kopitar, and Toews.  Larkin is actually an excellent two way player.

dude we have way tooooo many 2 way guys, you need to draft crafty guys too.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

dude we have way tooooo many 2 way guys, you need to draft crafty guys too.

Only if those crafty guys are able to put up enough points to balance out their lack of defense, otherwise you end up like the Oilers.  

[kingofsurrey]

Cody Hodgson was leading scorer at the WJ tournament..   Could not play the 2 way game.  How did he turn out for us ?

I will take Horvat and McCann types any day . 

[Ballisticsports.]

21 hours ago, Crabcakes said:

Depends what you mean by core. I like the example of Chicago in defining the core because they have traded away excess players several times and the good players who have remained constant are clear.  Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford.

Who fits the bill on the Canucks?

Horvat, McCann.....more to be determined......Demko?

2011 team:  Sedin, Sedin, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Luongo

I agree

In my opinion the term 'core" are players who have earned  and proven themselves, not just handing it to them

The sample size for the young players is too short to call them future core players, and some have not even played in the NHL yet