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Canucks - Who is our next Core ?


kingofsurrey

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22 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Dude Edler is a top 4 Dman on any team ranked 25 - 30th  in the league.

He has declined in play and production for 4 consecutive years now. If he was your car, you should have traded it in a few years ago.

Edler is still a 2/3 guy on almost every team in the NHL. Don't kid yourself.

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23 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Dude Edler is a top 4 Dman on any team ranked 25 - 30th  in the league.

He has declined in play and production for 4 consecutive years now. If he was your car, you should have traded it in a few years ago.

You are judging his ability to play a #2-4 role from his ability to play #1 role. He's playing above where he should be, which means increased mistakes. The hate some people have provides some ridiculous biases. 

He may not be good enough to be a #1 on a contending team, but he is good enough to play a top 4 roll. Remove Edler from our blueline and we become a bottom feeder. He currently is a #1 on a bubble playoff team (which is ~60 of the league).

 

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26 minutes ago, Tragoedia said:

You are judging his ability to play a #2-4 role from his ability to play #1 role. He's playing above where he should be, which means increased mistakes. The hate some people have provides some ridiculous biases. 

He may not be good enough to be a #1 on a contending team, but he is good enough to play a top 4 roll. Remove Edler from our blueline and we become a bottom feeder. He currently is a #1 on a bubble playoff team (which is ~60 of the league).

 

Edler should be  a  4-5    d-man on any decent NHL team.   He  is a  turn over machine .   We could trade him but he is so overpaid right now , his contract will be hard to move.  Dude is 29  yrs old but playing more like a 39 yr old. 

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17 hours ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

teams find real elite STUDS in the first line Pheniox - DOMI, Detroit - Larkin. Canucks' have a tendency to find 2 way players in the 1st round, need I say more? Especially when Konecy and Merkley were on the board, we went with a 2-way player again why?

Because D wins titles.

 

We will have a bunch of 2 way forwards who can play D and support offensively, then we will have our snipers in Boeser, Shinkaruk, Subban, and Virtanen. Then physical play in Virtanen, Horvat, Tryamkin, and Pedan. Then playmakers in Baertschi, Horvat, and Vey. Then elite goaltending in Demko.

 

A team full of 2 way forwards with a couple snipers, playmakers, and physical players along with big Dmen and an elite goalie is how u win titles. 

 

 

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On 26/01/2016 at 2:01 AM, Alflives said:

Yes, that's a must too.  Often the top d guys come from the second round too.  Doughty and Ekblad were top picks, but Keith and Weber were second rounders.  We deserve to get lucky with one of our picks, and get that star d man.  ::D

We got ours in the 5th round :) 

 

Ben Hutton!!!

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2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Ya, I really like Hutton too.  Tanev is pretty darned nice as well.  Could they become the top pairing we need?  Edler could be moved then, couldn't he?

The only reason he isnt a top pairing D right now is because Benning wants our players developed right. He dont want to throw them in a situation where they will lose their confidence. Hutton is our best D IMHO and hes only a rookie. However if there was a vote on who our best Dman was id have to say Tanev right now because Hutton is just to new. Hutton will win the norris 1 day and u can quote me on that. I liked this kid for years, just never thought hed make this kind of impact so quickly. Future Assitant captain right here.

 

Horvat - C

Hutton - A

Virtanen - A

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20 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Edler should be  a  4-5    d-man on any decent NHL team.   He  is a  turn over machine .   We could trade him but he is so overpaid right now , his contract will be hard to move.  Dude is 29  yrs old but playing more like a 39 yr old. 

You are judging this based on his play as a #1 expected to provide top offensive production and top shutdown minutes. There are not many defenseman in the league who would do his current job better. His top years were when we had someone else in the #1 role.

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4 hours ago, Alflives said:

McCann?

Sutter?

Demko or Markstrom?

Etem-no

Shinkaruk-no

Shink has shown that he can play at an elite level in every level of hockey he has played in. Sure he struggled in the AHL last year but its clear he's got a lot of natural scoring ability from his play this year. To not have him be a big part of the Canucks future would delay any chances at becoming a contender again.

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My core for the new Canucks  -    Players i would not trade this season.

Anyone else could be moved if we could get back someone to fit in age wise with our Future Core

Canucks Future CORE  - 11 Players to build upon. 

Hutton, Tanev , Horvat , Pedan,  McCann, Demko, Markstrom, SVEN, Virtanen, Boesner  and Shinkaruk

I am excited to see this group dominate in 3 -5  years

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11 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said:

Shink has shown that he can play at an elite level in every level of hockey he has played in. Sure he struggled in the AHL last year but its clear he's got a lot of natural scoring ability from his play this year. To not have him be a big part of the Canucks future would delay any chances at becoming a contender again.

Is he a core guy though?

sure he will be part of our team, but core to me are a select few, who the other guys revolve around like interchangeable parts.  

A goalie: Markstrom or Demko

three d:  Tanev, Hutton ?

three forwards: Bo, ?, ?

i see a core of seven players.  I see three, maybe four core guys.  All the other guys are interchangeable parts. IMHAO

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36 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is he a core guy though?

sure he will be part of our team, but core to me are a select few, who the other guys revolve around like interchangeable parts.  

A goalie: Markstrom or Demko

three d:  Tanev, Hutton ?

three forwards: Bo, ?, ?

i see a core of seven players.  I see three, maybe four core guys.  All the other guys are interchangeable parts. IMHAO

Even though I disagree, I get what you're saying. I find goaltending in this city to be such a bermuda triangle that I find it hard to comprehend either Markstrom or Demko still being a Canuck in five years (if Demko even suits up for the team).

Tanev and Hutton have shown their worth but for the team to thrive on defense, we'd have to have a core D that sets the mark  around the league. I would not be upset if the next elite player(s) the Canucks draft are defensemen. It's not a coincidence that defense is what wins championships in sports in general, let alone hockey.

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"Next" Core to me sounds like future, so...two years from now should have most of the current old(er) vets gone except the twins. That being said, and this is strictly my opinion on who I think will have a future here, ultimately

Line 1:   ___, McCann (big maybe), Boeser

Line 2:  Baertschi, Horvat, Sutter

Line 3:  Guance, Cassels, Virtanen

Line 4:  ____, Zalewski, Hansen

I don't include the twins as "core" by this time. Burrows is either traded or let go/retired. McCann, I'm not 100% sold on as a top line center; I could see him included in a major trade. Shinkaruk goes in the same fashion. Grenier, though I have always liked the kid, just doesn't seem like he will ever be an NHL regular; sad, we could use his size. In this grouping, Horvat wears the "C".

D men, pairing 1-2     Hutton, _____

3-4  Tanev, Subban

5-6   Pedan, Sbisa

Brisebois (in Utica in two years, but getting close)

Markstrom

Demko

Overall, I feel the same as many people on here. We don't have, really, anyone that is top line capable, except maybe Boeser. We do have a pretty good collection of lower top 9 and 4th liners, with multiple skill set and plenty of drive. On D, Hutton may, MAY, have the skill set for top pairing, but I think he will need absolutely the correct partner. Otherwise, push everyone down one. I don't include Tryamkin, as he is not here yet and I will hold judgment until he is actually playing in North America.

So, filling in the blanks, I see the need for at least one, if not two, star forwards, and a bruising D man. That hole on the 4th line could likely be fairly easy to fill with whomever is available at that time, and depending on cap availability. Tanev wears one of the "As" in this team, and the other, maybe Hansen.

Is it a great team? Well, if the top line has a ppg player as the playmaker, and the other mystery player is a 30 goal scorer, that should give us sufficient scoring to be a top team, as the rest of the team looks like a tough collection of 30-50 point players that can and will play a 200ft game. I still worry about that D, though; Pedan by then should be scary, but no one else is likely to give larger forwards much trouble in front of the net, or in the corners. Hence the need for one more larger D man to play alongside Hutton. If all that, and can fit if under the cap...yeah I think a Cup is a possibility, maybe in the 18-19 year.

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2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

My core for the new Canucks  -    Players i would not trade this season.

Anyone else could be moved if we could get back someone to fit in age wise with our Future Core

Canucks Future CORE  - 11 Players to build upon. 

Hutton, Tanev , Horvat , Pedan,  McCann, Demko, Markstrom, SVEN, Virtanen, Boesner  and Shinkaruk

I am excited to see this group dominate in 3 -5  years

Add Rodin to my list. Leading the SEL in scoring this year. Gonna play for us next Sept.   That puts us to 12 players that have star potential.  

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Is he a core guy though?

sure he will be part of our team, but core to me are a select few, who the other guys revolve around like interchangeable parts.  

A goalie: Markstrom or Demko

three d:  Tanev, Hutton ?

three forwards: Bo, ?, ?

i see a core of seven players.  I see three, maybe four core guys.  All the other guys are interchangeable parts. IMHAO

Agreed, I'd go even further and say the only foundations to a great team are A great goalie, 2 top quality Dmen, and 3 Centres. You can get away with poor wingers.

We've got the Goalie and A centre, perhaps two if McCann continues to develop. Hopefully the draft will fill up a spot on D.

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5 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

Agreed, I'd go even further and say the only foundations to a great team are A great goalie, 2 top quality Dmen, and 3 Centres. You can get away with poor wingers.

We've got the Goalie and A centre, perhaps two if McCann continues to develop. Hopefully the draft will fill up a spot on D.

A Peter Forsberg type guy would be niceB).  Would he count for two?:rolleyes:

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Pierre McGuire referred to "the core seven" as the basis of a team today.

I googled and found this by Chip Kelly archived from 2013

                                                                  Present                                       Future

  1. all star centre 1...............................Sedin..........................................Horvat
  2. all star centre 2...............................Horvat.........................................McCann
  3. shut down centre / utility forward....Sutter..........................................Sutter
  4. power forward.................................Hansen.......................................Virtanen
  5. offensive defenseman.....................Edler..........................................Hutton
  6. shut down defenseman...................Hamhuis /Tanev........................Tanev
  7. goalie...............................................Miller..........................................Markstrom / Demko

Is this what we're talking about? 

Players listed are filling the role at present and may grow into it in the future

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