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Thumbs down Naysayers: I like the Team's development this year


*Buzzsaw*

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1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Virtanen is all about other things than hockey.  The league is too fast now to be out of shape, because of poor off ice choices.  I have been a HUGE Virtanen defender on CDC, but his recent poor choices do have me concerned.  The sooner we get his FAT ASS to Utica the better.  I think this kid needs to be broken, like a young colt.  

Nah just a steak and gunpowder diet.

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12 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Just wondering how you can rate us as doing quite well. WE are in 24 th place of 30 teams. 

Would you hoping for us to finish 29th out of  30 teams ?

We are now in a shoot out with the worst team in the league..   Do your really think we have a pretty good team ?

I think we have an evolving team that has sustained significant injuries. We were up in the top 5 of the league before we lost guys like Sutter and Hamhuis and Sbisa for substantial periods of time.

Are we going to win the cup this year? No

But that was never the plan to win the cup this year. We look competitive every night, the youth that we are developing are starting to show the leadership that will take this club back to being a contender.

Considering how empty our prospect cupboard looked when Gillis left, Suddenly, we have Horvat (yes, he was drafted by Gillis), McCann, Virtanen, Baertschi and Etem, all 23 and younger and looking like they belong in the NHL.

Veterans are being pushed out because they can't keep up with the youth. That's what you want to happen.

We have assets who will likely be traded for picks in the upcoming, deep draft. We could wind up with 3 first round picks and possibly 5 in the first 60.

This is a really tight league now. Building a team that can contend for the cup in a 30 team league with a salary cap doesn't happen overnight, but I'd say we are running on target and we should be in really good shape next season.

 

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if we don't go into a full rebuild, where's the future offense going to come from once the Sedins retires? Bo is great but he'll never be a consistent point a game guy. looking up and down our lineup and prospects we don't have a player with the insane high end skill to be a 1st liner. most if not all are labelled as a top 6 forward.. continue to rebuild and push for the playoff while collecting mid draft picks? when was the last time the canucks got a mid pick that ended up a bonifide star other than Schneider which shouldn't count coz he's a goalie.

since 1990 to now.. we do not have a draft pick that's picked outside the top 10 became a legitimate 1st line player anywhere in the NHL. Kesler is not a 1st liner, Schneider is a goalie, MAYBE Ohlund is considered a top 2 pairing and even if u include those 3.. that's 3 in 26 years? 

Currently in the NHL, can you name 1 decent young team in the NHL that's in the playoff/chasing for the playoff that doesn't have a top 10 pick on their top line or defense? other than Detroit. In recent memories.. which stanley cup winners doesn't have a top 10 pick playing in the top line or top pairing defense? again except Detroit, and maybe perhaps the Bruins? i mean they do have Seguin then and he became probably one of the top 5 forwards in the league right now. 

so short answer is no, rebuilding only works if you have high end legitimate talents to build around.. whether they can grow into their potential is up to the coaches.. hitting the jackpot with a middling pick with us.. probably ain't happening

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39 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

if we don't go into a full rebuild, where's the future offense going to come from once the Sedins retires? Bo is great but he'll never be a consistent point a game guy. looking up and down our lineup and prospects we don't have a player with the insane high end skill to be a 1st liner. most if not all are labelled as a top 6 forward.. continue to rebuild and push for the playoff while collecting mid draft picks? when was the last time the canucks got a mid pick that ended up a bonifide star other than Schneider which shouldn't count coz he's a goalie.

since 1990 to now.. we do not have a draft pick that's picked outside the top 10 became a legitimate 1st line player anywhere in the NHL. Kesler is not a 1st liner, Schneider is a goalie, MAYBE Ohlund is considered a top 2 pairing and even if u include those 3.. that's 3 in 26 years? 

 

When that last time canucks had a good scout as a GM.  Since 2005 canucks have only had 4 mid round picks.

In 2005 we took Bourdon at 10, Kopitar went at 11
In 2006 we took Grabner at 14, Giroux went at 22
In 2008 we took Hodgson at 10, Karlsson went at 15

A full rebuild is impossible for this team to achieve while we have the twin,  add on the rest of our NMC and you have enough talent to keep canucks out of the bottom 5.  If you look at the draft this year out side of the top 3 it’s pure luck as to which players become top line players.  Canucks are in need of a top D,  and currently all the top D in this year’s draft are set to be picked in the 6-14 range.  Exactly where canucks look to be picking. 

 

40 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

Currently in the NHL, can you name 1 decent young team in the NHL that's in the playoff/chasing for the playoff that doesn't have a top 10 pick on their top line or defense? other than Detroit. In recent memories.. which stanley cup winners doesn't have a top 10 pick playing in the top line or top pairing defense? again except Detroit, and maybe perhaps the Bruins? i mean they do have Seguin then and he became probably one of the top 5 forwards in the league right now. 

so short answer is no, rebuilding only works if you have high end legitimate talents to build around.. whether they can grow into their potential is up to the coaches.. hitting the jackpot with a middling pick with us.. probably ain't happening

The biggest fail with the full tank crowd is they assume tanking to draft a top 3,5 or 10 (which is not necessarily tanking) is the only way to pick up top talent.  You do realize that teams can trade or sign ufa's to pick up players.  Take Dallas, they have Seguin, Lehtonen and Spezza (all top 2 picks) but they sure didn’t need to go full rebuild to pick them up, as the tank crowd suggests.  What about the Senators, the Ducks, the Rangers, the Wild, the Sharks, the Flyers, the Devils.   Where's their full rebuild success

Lets look through the top 30 point players in the NHL currently.  How many fall under that theory of "need to tank to acquire"?

  1. Kane
  2. Benn
  3. Seguin
  4. Karlsson
  5. Pavelski
  6. Kuznetsov
  7. Panarin
  8. Hall
  9. Malkin
  10. Gaudreau
  11. Backstrom
  12. Wheeler
  13. Tarasenko
  14. Kopitar
  15. Crosby
  16. Bergeron
  17. Sedin
  18. Ryan
  19. Burns
  20. Ovechkin
  21. Kucherov
  22. Giroux
  23. Klingberg
  24. Duchene
  25. MacKinnon
  26. O'Reilly
  27. Steen
  28. Thornton
  29. Hoffman
  30. Voracek

Only 9. Every other player (70%) was either picked up by trade/UFA or drafted outside of the top 10.  That sure puts a damper in the whole high end talent can only be picked up through a full rebuild theory.

 

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I'm starting to think of Benning as the quiet calm guy who actually has a goal and is not afraid to pull moves we're not used to from any GM we've had in the past 10 or 15 years. Of course, with being bold will come the naysayers, but seriously, when have we seen players like Higgins, Prust, and now Weber all get waived in a matter of weeks to make room for youth?

Are any of those vets going to be happy about it? Of course not. Why would they? However, it doesn't take a genious to see that we're getting younger and still actually provided a somewhat competitive team on the ice.

It got really tired seeing Nonis and Gillis wait for the right moments. Benning almost seemingly creates those right moments.

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7 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

When that last time canucks had a good scout as a GM.  Since 2005 canucks have only had 4 mid round picks.

In 2005 we took Bourdon at 10, Kopitar went at 11
In 2006 we took Grabner at 14, Giroux went at 22
In 2008 we took Hodgson at 10, Karlsson went at 15

A full rebuild is impossible for this team to achieve while we have the twin,  add on the rest of our NMC and you have enough talent to keep canucks out of the bottom 5.  If you look at the draft this year out side of the top 3 it’s pure luck as to which players become top line players.  Canucks are in need of a top D,  and currently all the top D in this year’s draft are set to be picked in the 6-14 range.  Exactly where canucks look to be picking. 

 

The biggest fail with the full tank crowd is they assume tanking to draft a top 3,5 or 10 (which is not necessarily tanking) is the only way to pick up top talent.  You do realize that teams can trade or sign ufa's to pick up players.  Take Dallas, they have Seguin, Lehtonen and Spezza (all top 2 picks) but they sure didn’t need to go full rebuild to pick them up, as the tank crowd suggests.  What about the Senators, the Ducks, the Rangers, the Wild, the Sharks, the Flyers, the Devils.   Where's their full rebuild success

Lets look through the top 30 point players in the NHL currently.  How many fall under that theory of "need to tank to acquire"?

  1. Kane
  2. Benn
  3. Seguin
  4. Karlsson
  5. Pavelski
  6. Kuznetsov
  7. Panarin
  8. Hall
  9. Malkin
  10. Gaudreau
  11. Backstrom
  12. Wheeler
  13. Tarasenko
  14. Kopitar
  15. Crosby
  16. Bergeron
  17. Sedin
  18. Ryan
  19. Burns
  20. Ovechkin
  21. Kucherov
  22. Giroux
  23. Klingberg
  24. Duchene
  25. MacKinnon
  26. O'Reilly
  27. Steen
  28. Thornton
  29. Hoffman
  30. Voracek

Only 9. Every other player (70%) was either picked up by trade/UFA or drafted outside of the top 10.  That sure puts a damper in the whole high end talent can only be picked up through a full rebuild theory.

 

our team does not have anything remotely even close to be able to pull off a blockbuster trade to acquire anyone with any star caliber attached to it without giving up say starting point Bo +++ other teams can pick up decent great players without tanking thx to their scouting staff. throughout the entire history of the canucks, i'm pretty sure we are the worse when it comes to drafting success.. i can't even think of one team that have drafted worse than the canucks have in their existence. how many top 3 forward or top 2 defenseman have the canucks ever drafted and produce thru drafting? i'd take my chance with a top 5 pick and take the best available vs trusting our scouting staff

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6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

our team does not have anything remotely even close to be able to pull off a blockbuster trade to acquire anyone with any star caliber attached to it without giving up say starting point Bo +++ other teams can pick up decent great players without tanking thx to their scouting staff. throughout the entire history of the canucks, i'm pretty sure we are the worse when it comes to drafting success.. i can't even think of one team that have drafted worse than the canucks have in their existence. how many top 3 forward or top 2 defenseman have the canucks ever drafted and produce thru drafting? i'd take my chance with a top 5 pick and take the best available vs trusting our scouting staff

Leafs.  :lol:

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A good read, although I think you're a little generous with your grades. I'd go...

Horvat- C (caught fire as of late, but can't defend how he came out of the gate)

Virtanen- C+ (solid for his first season of pro, but we need to see some more numbers from him)

McCann- C+ (Again, decent first season of pro, just needs to put it all together)

Bear Cheese- C+ (Was meh when the season started, but seems to have found some chemistry with Horvat)

Etem- TBD

Vey- TBD

Markstrom- B (Has performed admirably so far)

Hutton- C+ (Looked good early, but seeing some holes in his game now)

 

Quickly go through some vets..

Danny- B+

Hank- B

Hansen- A

Burrows- D+

Vrbata- C-

Dorsett- C

Prust- D-

Higgins- D

Edler- C

Tanev- C+

Miller- C

 

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1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

A good read, although I think you're a little generous with your grades. I'd go...

Horvat- C (caught fire as of late, but can't defend how he came out of the gate)

Virtanen- C+ (solid for his first season of pro, but we need to see some more numbers from him)

McCann- C+ (Again, decent first season of pro, just needs to put it all together)

Bear Cheese- C+ (Was meh when the season started, but seems to have found some chemistry with Horvat)

Etem- TBD

Vey- TBD

Markstrom- B (Has performed admirably so far)

Hutton- C+ (Looked good early, but seeing some holes in his game now)

 

Quickly go through some vets..

Danny- B+

Hank- B

Hansen- A

Burrows- D+

Vrbata- C-

Dorsett- C

Prust- D-

Higgins- D

Edler- C

Tanev- C+

Miller- C

 

Are you the same guy who "watched Corrado" and think he's more than a fringe NHL player?  Oh crap.  Our team is freakin horrible. :shock:

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1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Are you the same guy who "watched Corrado" and think he's more than a fringe NHL player?  Oh crap.  Our team is freakin horrible. :shock:

You add it all up, and it's still a passing grade. For me....

A= Greatly exceeds expectations

B= Exceeds expectations/Meets high expectations

C+ Solid, if not spectacular

C= Mediocre

C-= Barely passable

D= Poor 

I'm not sure what the sum of all my grades adds up to, but it's roughly a C/C+, which, judging by where we sit in the standings, is relatively apt (maybe even generous).

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On 2/5/2016 at 8:29 PM, VegasCanuck said:

This team really has done quite well, all things considered. It takes time to turn the youth into stars, our approach of keeping a strong core of veterans around them seems to be working, and we're able to remove a few of the veterans as the young guys get their experience and confidence levels up.

Looking forward to the trading deadline and seeing what we do to move out guys like Vrbata for picks and prospects.

I honestly believe that despite the massive amount of injuries, we've played better than we probably should have. I know we're near last, but still.

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2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

our team does not have anything remotely even close to be able to pull off a blockbuster trade to acquire anyone with any star caliber attached to it without giving up say starting point Bo +++ other teams can pick up decent great players without tanking thx to their scouting staff. throughout the entire history of the canucks, i'm pretty sure we are the worse when it comes to drafting success.. i can't even think of one team that have drafted worse than the canucks have in their existence. how many top 3 forward or top 2 defenseman have the canucks ever drafted and produce thru drafting? i'd take my chance with a top 5 pick and take the best available vs trusting our scouting staff

Since 1988, Linden, Bure, Nedved, Ohlund, Henrik, Daniel, Edler, Schneider,  Bourdon (was going to be), Horvat, Virtanen will be.  McCann and Boeser also look like they will be as well.

Lets compare that 

Since 1988, Roenick, Byfuglien, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Kane, Toews,....Teravainen has the potential too.

Since 1988 Blake, Sydor, Cammalleri, Kopitar, Quick, Doughty

Since 1988  Amonte, Weight, Zubov, Kovalev, Savard, Lundqvist

But again it's not all about drafting,  Canucks have been able to pick up some really good talents through trades. Naslund, Bertuzzi, Luongo, come to mind.

We've also lately picked up Baertschi and Markstrom who have top end skill levels.  Too many people are focussed on flash.  "We need a pure skill art ross trophy winner"  "Who's going to replace the sedins offense?"  Guess what, the sedins don't have any stanley cups..... Sadly that want to for exciting offensive talent is more of a fringe hockey fan, as they need something shiney and exciting to catch their eye for them to determine star capability.  While the crosby, Ovi's and Sedins pick up their individual trophies, they Kopitars, Datsyuk, Bergeron and Toews pick up stanley cups. Strong two way heart and soul guys, the type of players they will a team to win, they team of players Benning is building our core around.  Only once in the last 15 years has the art ross trophy winner one a stanley cup in that same year.

 

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