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Decision Time Is Now or Is It Already Made? Ramblings.


TheGuardian_

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22 minutes ago, CanuckianOne said:

3 goals in 3 games isn't too great either

We play better as a team in front of Markstrom, for whatever reason there is better chemistry than with Miller. I believe the production will take care of itself once Markstrom is in net.

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57 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said:

I think the decision has been made (internally) that they are done with this season.

 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Yes, and if so, it's publicly unspeakable.

I don't think management properly gauged the fan base, it looks like they thought the Vancouver fans were like most American team's fans, if you don't win they won't show up. Extended losing will drive fans away but stating that the team is doing a total rebuild might give hard core fans optimism for the future. Most knowledgeable fans would understand the need of being a bad team for a few years in order to get the stars of the future. Canadian fans aren't tricked into thinking that just because a player is a first round pick he is instantly a star, most Canadian fans have been exposed to news from the junior ranks and know which players are "stars" of the future, or at least potentially "stars" of the future.

To cry about the past doesn't do any good now, but failing to learn from the past encourages repeating the same mistakes or successes. The best teams the Nucks had were lead by top 3 draft picks, Linden and the Sedins. In both cases the fans had persevered for years about making the playoffs, most of those fans (they're the one's that can afford to buy tickets) are still alive so the "we will try to be in the playoffs" is old and repeating news. We know what it will take. IF the Nucks had two or three poor season's tied together, say 2012 through to 2016 and drafted in the top 5 each season.......but wishes aren't of any value.

I would renew season tickets to see the team rebuild, but I won't to see them flounder trying to make the playoffs and waste the remaining years of the only "stars" the team has left. And don't try to sell me on players that can't make the teams they are already on as being some kind of answer.

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25 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

This team is a lot better than it has shown in the last few games,but I'm certainly not getting that sense of urgency in their play that tells me that they are a 'playoff team'.

When you fail to deliver against the Bluejackets and Flames,you can hardly call yourselves legitimate....

I know Benning has stated many times that playoff experience is the goal of the team for the young guys. I wonder if he looked at the standings lately, they need to be in playoff mode now to even have a chance, for the Nucks the playoffs started two games ago.

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3 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

I don't think management properly gauged the fan base, it looks like they thought the Vancouver fans were like most American team's fans, if you don't win they won't show up. Extended losing will drive fans away but stating that the team is doing a total rebuild might give hard core fans optimism for the future. Most knowledgeable fans would understand the need of being a bad team for a few years in order to get the stars of the future. Canadian fans aren't tricked into thinking that just because a player is a first round pick he is instantly a star, most Canadian fans have been exposed to news from the junior ranks and know which players are "stars" of the future, or at least potentially "stars" of the future.

To cry about the past doesn't do any good now, but failing to learn from the past encourages repeating the same mistakes or successes. The best teams the Nucks had were lead by top 3 draft picks, Linden and the Sedins. In both cases the fans had persevered for years about making the playoffs, most of those fans (they're the one's that can afford to buy tickets) are still alive so the "we will try to be in the playoffs" is old and repeating news. We know what it will take. IF the Nucks had two or three poor season's tied together, say 2012 through to 2016 and drafted in the top 5 each season.......but wishes aren't of any value.

I would renew season tickets to see the team rebuild, but I won't to see them flounder trying to make the playoffs and waste the remaining years of the only "stars" the team has left. And don't try to sell me on players that can't make the teams they are already on as being some kind of answer.

Does JB maintain the "we're aiming to make the playoffs" party line for the fan-base, ownership, players, or coaching staff?  Probably all of the above.  It doesn't necessarily mean he believes it or will refuse to sell when the chips are down. 

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Canucks were never a playoff team this year... That was only Canuck corporate spin to keep tickets moving.

CDC fans vastly overate our team and our prospects.

It has been an eye opener for many on here to see our players clearing waivers with no interest.

Our prospects are also mid to late first rounders , that mostly project to be 2nd line forwards.

We need to address our talent moving forward and make so big moves if we want to compete.

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26 minutes ago, Filthy McNasty said:

Looking like McMatthews might be a possibility:o

Not a chance.

Looks like the Oilers - the worst excuse for a professional sports franchise in history - are back to their tanking ways and heading for Mathews.  5-1 loss last night to Montreal and down 7-1 after 2 to NYI today.  Got to hand it to them, they know how to draft high and are an organization with absolutely no pride or conscience.

Canuck management and ownership will never blatantly lose the way Edmonton has become accustomed to.

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1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I apologize for being all over the map with the thread, I didn't feel that two or three new threads need be made covering the various subjects touched on.

I don't think the Canucks could/would get Mathews as a lock if they finished last, although their chances would be better and after watching the prospects game I don't think there are too many "franchise" super stars out there, although Pierre-Luc Dubois looked pretty impressive and those Finnish kids Jesse Puljujarvi and Laine can play.

EDM didn't even have the best chance of getting McDavid and they did. I don't think Vancouver will get a crack at getting him but weirder things have happened at draft time. If the Canucks did draft him, whats to say he'll want to play here? If the Sedins stick around for a while, whats to say it wouldn't turn out to be another Hodgson saga but this time with the player having a good reason to feel wronged?

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5 minutes ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Does JB maintain the "we're aiming to make the playoffs" party line for the fan-base, ownership, players, or coaching staff?  Probably all of the above.  It doesn't necessarily mean he believes it or will refuse to sell when the chips are down. 

Strictly for the fan base, players know which teams are good or not, remember when Chris Chelios said the Canucks were "a really good team...if they had better goaltending" but you couldn't get that squeak out of any management on the team, the fans could see it though as well as most of the league and players. Then Lidstrom scored and still...hiss..tow....ry.

I think another "tell" of what is decided is that they are making moves for WD and he is picking up his old Tigers to let them have a roster spot. Think on it, an inexperienced non productive forward playing on a team "trying" to make the playoffs replacing veterans who have been through the gong show multiple times. Add the statement "getting younger" and then give them extra ice time....really? And keep real prospects shielded in the AHL.

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40 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

This team is a lot better than it has shown in the last few games,but I'm certainly not getting that sense of urgency in their play that tells me that they are a 'playoff team'.

When you fail to deliver against the Bluejackets and Flames,you can hardly call yourselves legitimate....

TheGuardian did us a favour posing this question.  The players are performing like individuals -- Hamhuis is enjoying being able to play at all; Etem and Vey are enjoying playing in the NHL; and Hutton, well, just being Hutton I guess.  But the rest of the team is beaten.  The team that started this year would have won 3 or 4 of the last 4 games.  Fatigue for the Sedins, inadequate organization of lines/strategy, and I hate to say it, but a morale problem somewhere is hamstringing them.  A full-on tank is not what we do here, but it does look like it's what we need.  Major "industrial scale house-cleaning" is what's needed.  Xereau got it right.  With the face and tone of the Sedins and perhaps Hamhuis to give us stability and some tradition, all the rest of the vets can be moved/dumped. I'd like to see half of Utica up here in 3 weeks, unless the case can be made for keeping a core intact in Utica. 

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Obvious trade baits are Vrbata and Hamhius since they are both pending UFAs.

Hamhius should be able to fetch us at least a first round pick

As for Vrbata, his value definitely dropped this year. But he should get us at least a 2nd rounder.

Another player I would like to see if there are any takers is Burrows. But I believe he has a full NTC. Maybe he would waive for the Ducks and join his buddies. I would eat a bit of cap if needed

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28 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Not a chance.

Looks like the Oilers - the worst excuse for a professional sports franchise in history - are back to their tanking ways and heading for Mathews.  5-1 loss last night to Montreal and down 7-1 after 2 to NYI today.  Got to hand it to them, they know how to draft high and are an organization with absolutely no pride or conscience.

Canuck management and ownership will never blatantly lose the way Edmonton has become accustomed to.

You've got to give Edmonton credit. They certainly know how to tank. In fact they take tanking to a whole new level. Canucks are just a bunch of rookies when it comes to tanking.:lol:

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let's hope they can off load some of the vets that mng, has patronized a little to long ,i.e. vrabata, burrow's ,elder ,hamhuis, miller.

23 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Strictly for the fan base, players know which teams are good or not, remember when Chris Chelios said the Canucks were "a really good team...if they had better goaltending" but you couldn't get that squeak out of any management on the team, the fans could see it though as well as most of the league and players. Then Lidstrom scored and still...hiss..tow....ry.

I think another "tell" of what is decided is that they are making moves for WD and he is picking up his old Tigers to let them have a roster spot. Think on it, an inexperienced non productive forward playing on a team "trying" to make the playoffs replacing veterans who have been through the gong show multiple times. Add the statement "getting younger" and then give them extra ice time....really? And keep real prospects shielded in the AHL.

 having watched kennins last year i would have thought he was a lock this year. i see this rebuild 1 year behind sched, they took a calculated risk that the team was going to be close to being a playoff team, and picked up bartkowski, and sutter, and then eventually etem, no'one expected the sutter injury, after watching bart for as long as i have ,he was a player they knew wasn't going to be a difference maker. they held on to a combination of the wrong veteran leadership looking back at this season so far. let's hope they can off load and reload some better leadership vet's and some good drafting, this team has some very good piece's. 

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3 minutes ago, chon derry said:

let's hope they can off load some of the vets that mng, has patronized a little to long ,i.e. vrabata, burrow's ,elder ,hamhuis, miller.

 having watched kennins last year i would have thought he was a lock this year. i see this rebuild 1 year behind sched, they took a calculated risk that the team was going to be close to being a playoff team, and picked up bartkowski, and sutter, and then eventually etem, no'one expected the sutter injury, after watching bart for as long as i have ,he was a player they knew wasn't going to be a difference maker. they held on to a combination of the wrong veteran leadership looking back at this season so far. let's hope they can off load and reload some better leadership vet's and some good drafting, this team has some very good piece's. 

Holy F bro learn to spell.

No one wants our vets not named Sedin or Edler. The ones people wanted are already traded except Hansen. 

If Hansen can fetch a 1st, I would move him. 

 

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Why is it many on here think the "grass is greener" with other players?  Over and over there just about every combination of trade possible.  I say stick with what we have and let the team sink slowly into a good 1st and 2nd round pick in the 2016 Draft.  If they somehow achieve the impossible and make the playoffs, it would be 4 or 5 games and gone.  In addition that top 5 pick would then be a 17 or 18th pick in the first round.

While I am at it look at the + - ratings for the League in total and see who is at the bottom at 807 and 805.

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32 minutes ago, shazzam said:

Obvious trade baits are Vrbata and Hamhius since they are both pending UFAs.

Hamhius should be able to fetch us at least a first round pick

As for Vrbata, his value definitely dropped this year. But he should get us at least a 2nd rounder.

Another player I would like to see if there are any takers is Burrows. But I believe he has a full NTC. Maybe he would waive for the Ducks and join his buddies. I would eat a bit of cap if needed

Sorry Captain Marvel, but if all we could get for Eddy Lack was a 3rd Round pick why would get a 1st round pick for Dan Hamhuis.  I would suggest a 3rd or 4th would be all we would get.  I would keep him.

Vrbata - IMO the best we get a 5th Round or lower pick.  His goal production has fallen way off and his + - is awful.

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1 minute ago, Longtime Fan said:

Sorry Captain Marvel, but if all we could get for Eddy Lack was a 3rd Round pick why would get a 1st round pick for Dan Hamhuis.  I would suggest a 3rd or 4th would be all we would get.  I would keep him.

Vrbata - IMO the best we get a 5th Round or lower pick.  His goal production has fallen way off and his + - is awful.


Hamhuis is more valuable than Lack. A lot more.

Teams looked at Lack as a backup goalie. Teams look at Hamhuis as a top 4 D.

Top 4 D are not a dime a dozen. 

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2 hours ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

With all due respect, OP,  "the decision" may never be announced publicly.  It's all about what deals are actually available, and we don't have access to that information.  Being too obviously and openly ready to deal assets doesn't maximize their value.   With that said, of course we should be sellers, just discretely.

This is the right call.

I am not entirely sure what the OP is suggesting. I think the idea is that if the Canucks would fire WD and get a new coach they could turn things around this season. If so, I disagree, In my opinion the problem with the Canucks is not WD. I think the problem is not enough talent. The Canucks finally have some decent quality in the pipeline and those guys should continue to improve over the next few years (Horvat, Baertschi, Hutton, McCann, Virtanen, Pedan, maybe Etem and Vey, Boesser, Demko, etc.) But they still need more talent in the pipeline if they are going to contend for a Cup down the road, preferably a franchise D type or a future 1C to replace Henrik.

There are no guarantees, but it looks like there are 5 or 6 very good players available in the draft this year that could be obtained with a high first round round pick, and there are several defencemen who have a shot a becoming very good who could be obtained in the low first round or the second round. So acquiring some extra picks by trading vets would be a good idea.

In addition to the usual discussion of trading Vrby and Hammer (who I hope re-signs with the Canucks in the summer), I would favor trading Hansen. He will never be worth more in trade than he is right now and his value has been inflated by playing with the Sedins. He is young enough to still be valuable to another team for a couple of years but not young enough to be part of the newemerging core on the Canucks. He would be worth a least a low first and probably a prospect as well at the deadline. And I would trade Miller if a first could be obtained for him, although I think that is unlikely.

 

 

 

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