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USA Politics/Election Thread: Joe Biden, 46th President of the US


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4 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Again, no one is saying it wasn't a dangerous situation that had tragic results.

 

But as Catanzara said, to describe it as a coup attempt or a mass insurrection, is over-blown.

 

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here but I think there's a difference between a riot and a coup attempt.

It was an act of insurrection and attempted coup.

 

Catanzara, and anyone else who can't understand that, is out to lunch. 

 

 

Edited by Sharpshooter
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4 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

He has had 4 Press Secretaries. None have gone to jail. Sean Spicer went to 'Dancing With The Stars". Sarah Huckabee Sanders went to the buffet at some Applebee's in Arkansas. Stephanie Grisham, who never held a single press briefing went back to being Melanie Trump's Chief of Staff and resigned yesterday. And then there is Press Barbie McEnany soon to be weathergirl at Newsmax.

Smart Republicans don't run for office cause they won't have jobs afterwards.

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32 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Again, no one is saying it wasn't a dangerous situation that had tragic results.

 

But as Catanzara said, to describe it as a coup attempt or a mass insurrection, is over-blown.

 

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here but I think there's a difference between a riot and a coup attempt.

The thing is almost all coup attempts  or insurrections are contingent on the country's institutions (in particular the military) supporting them.  Armed Magas could have taken over half of DC, but if the American Armed Forces hadn't supported the coup it would eventually collapse.  If the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted Trump to become a dictator yesterday, he would have become one, or we would at least have seen the beginning of the bloodiest civil war in history.  

 

I think a lot of Magas in their delusion thought that the police, government, and military would join them.  

Edited by Coda
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4 minutes ago, Coda said:

The thing is almost all coup attempts  or insurrections are contingent on the country's institutions (in particular the military) supporting them.  Armed Magas could have taken over half of DC, but if the American Armed Forces hadn't supported the coup it would eventually collapse.  If the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted Trump to become a dictator yesterday, he would have become one, or we would at least have seen the beginning of the bloodiest civil war in history.  

 

I think a lot of Magas in their delusion thought that the police, government, and military would join them.  

Throughout history, failed coups centered around a lack of support or inadequate support.  a coup is successful when the tide turns in your favour and the majority of the power players join your cause.  When they don't, the coup fails.

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12 minutes ago, Coda said:

The thing is almost all coup attempts  or insurrections are contingent on the country's institutions (in particular the military) supporting them.  Armed Magas could have taken over half of DC, but if the American Armed Forces hadn't supported the coup it would eventually collapse.  If the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted Trump to become a dictator yesterday, he would have become one, or we would at least have seen the beginning of the bloodiest civil war in history.  

 

I think a lot of Magas in their delusion thought that the police, government, and military would join them.  

The actual POTUS, the leader of the whole country, incited it..........that's not an important enough institution for you?

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1 minute ago, stawns said:

The actual POTUS, the leader of the whole country, incited it..........that's not an important enough institution for you?

:huh: Trump lost the election and constitutionally will be removed from office on January the 20th.  The dispute about whether that should happen or not is at the crux of this whole debacle.  But you knew this right?  

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19 minutes ago, Coda said:

:huh: Trump lost the election and constitutionally will be removed from office on January the 20th.  The dispute about whether that should happen or not is at the crux of this whole debacle.  But you knew this right?  

I know it was definitely an attempted coup.  Luckily it was attempted by a merry band of morons........doesnt make it any less of an attempted overthrow of the government.

 

What do you think their intentions were?  What were Trump's intentions?

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11 hours ago, Lancaster said:

It would probably convince a sizeable amount of them. 

 

I mean, losing is part of voting, part of democracy.  People didn't storm DC when W got in, or when Obama was elected.  But this one feels different.... perhaps it's the constant tension driven by both sides these past 4 years.... or maybe it's the lead pipes.  

 

If such investigation will sate half of the people that are outraged... that's still better than not doing anything IMO.  Crazy will be crazy, but the p/o people will just be not be p/o'd anymore.  

 

I think these alt right crazies are so lost that even definitive proof wouldn't suffice, sadly.

 

The politicans have lied to people for so long, and everyone knows the 'traditional' media outlets are control by large conglomerates that are in bed with the parties. Everyone is skeptical of everything, and now with the rise of the internet/social media/alternate media, no one knows what to believe.

 

Or they have a preconceived idea that they want to believe, and are able to find other people that think exactly like them & it legitimates the view - in their mind. Look no further than the event at hand.

 

The internet & social media - along with the knowledge that traditional media is compromised - has thrown a massive wrench into this thing that we don't know how to control, and really can't currently control, IMO. 

 

 

7 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm sick of people trying to make it out like it's "both sides".  It's not both sides, it's one element of society, period.  The "personal accountability" element of our society needs to practice what they preach

 

7 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the "left" was upset about the evidence of Russia meddling in their election. It was actually Trump that made it a referendum on collusion. 

 

No, they are not. There isn't a "both sides" thing here. Trump incited a riot on his own capital. Nothing Pelosi has done comes close to that. 

 

SJW/cancel culture wants to shift social norms, sure. They don't the the power of the presidency to try to over turn an election. There's nothing close to the kind of power Trump has. 

 

the right way to manage this has been demonstrated but he Republican Party in Georgia. They did their jobs, they followed the rules. Their example is terrific. Creating more useless fake investigations just keeps the anger fires burning, you know they will never give the mob the answer they want. 

 

^ see above. 

 

This is a very primitive description. it isn't simply 'shifting norms', in the liberal west norms have shifted more or less organically over time, atleast in some sense (that's another discussion). This is a more radical attempt to diagnose & then reconstruct society based on an ideologically driven pseudo-reality.

 

Society and its structures are inherently patriarchal/racist/sexist/transphobic/homophobic/fatphobic/exc (epistemic oppression). Power over society - and by extension oppressed peoples - are controlled through the traditional 'western' ways of knowing (Scientific methods/consensus, traditional religious principals, economic principals, exc, exc). That power permeates through society, like a virus, by way of the continual belief in these ways of knowing - again to the benefit of the oppressors. And people participating in this society without opposition are complicit whether they intend to be or not, including people of colour, sex or sexuality who would regularly fall into the oppressed category but disagree with/reject these ideas, thats 'internalized oppression'.

 

This is how you end up with denial of biological sex being so prevalent. The fat studies tropes of health at every size. The massive anti-racism training industry. Disability studies & ableism. Intersectionality calculators based on immutable characteristics ->(https://intersectionalityscore.com/). White fragility ['Its not a question of whether racism took place, its a question of: "how did racist manifest in this situation"'] being an international best selling book, exc. exc.

 

Trump just got the second most votes ever and its not because he was anywhere near competent enough to earn those votes, thats obvious - we can all agree on that. People who don't like Trump - who liked trump even less than 2016 - voted for him because they obviously see danger on the left. Just like people on the left see clear danger on the right. And in my opinion both sides are correct in the concerns. But acting like one side is solely & entirely the problem is insane to me.

 

You literally had both sides in the streets rioting, destroying things, exc. within the same 6 month stretch. People say that if these people in DC we're black they would've been dealt with more forcibly, and I definitely don't deny there is something to that point. BUT keep in mind - BLM was allowed to take over & occupy (they were basically handed) a big chunk of a major US city for a significant period of time - without military coming in and slaughtering people like its assumed the inherently racist USA would generally do. 

 

Now before I get jumped on; that's not a justification for these alt right wingers breaking into a freaking federal building. Its absolutely a major threat to democracy as every has said - and should be dealt with as such. Trump's time is done & it can't come fast enough - its time for the West to heal. Also, at this point just throw Rudy Giuliani in jail for all I care. 

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10 minutes ago, stawns said:

I know it was definitely an attempted coup.  Luckily it was attempted by a merry band of morons........doesnt make it any less of an attempted overthrow of the government.

 

What do you think their intentions were?  What were Trump's intentions?

I never said it wasn't an attempted coup.  Perhaps you misread my posts.  

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13 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I think these alt right crazies are so lost that even definitive proof wouldn't suffice, sadly.

 

The politicans have lied to people for so long, and everyone knows the 'traditional' media outlets are control by large conglomerates that are in bed with the parties. Everyone is skeptical of everything, and now with the rise of the internet/social media/alternate media, no one knows what to believe.

 

Or they have a preconceived idea that they want to believe, and are able to find other people that think exactly like them & it legitimates the view - in their mind. Look no further than the event at hand.

 

The internet & social media - along with the knowledge that traditional media is compromised - has thrown a massive wrench into this thing that we don't know how to control, and really can't currently control, IMO. 

 

 

 

 

This is a very primitive description. it isn't simply 'shifting norms', in the liberal west norms have shifted more or less organically over time, atleast in some sense (that's another discussion). This is a more radical attempt to diagnose & then reconstruct society based on an ideologically driven pseudo-reality.

 

Society and its structures are inherently patriarchal/racist/sexist/transphobic/homophobic/fatphobic/exc (epistemic oppression). Power over society - and by extension oppressed peoples - are controlled through the traditional 'western' ways of knowing (Scientific methods/consensus, traditional religious principals, economic principals, exc, exc). That power permeates through society, like a virus, by way of the continual belief in these ways of knowing - again to the benefit of the oppressors. And people participating in this society without opposition are complicit whether they intend to be or not, including people of colour, sex or sexuality who would regularly fall into the oppressed category but disagree with/reject these ideas, thats 'internalized oppression'.

 

This is how you end up with denial of biological sex being so prevalent. The fat studies tropes of health at every size. The massive anti-racism training industry. Disability studies & ableism. Intersectionality calculators based on immutable characteristics ->(https://intersectionalityscore.com/). White fragility ['Its not a question of whether racism took place, its a question of: "how did racist manifest in this situation"'] being an international best selling book, exc. exc.

 

Trump just got the second most votes ever and its not because he was anywhere near competent enough to earn those votes, thats obvious - we can all agree on that. People who don't like Trump - who liked trump even less than 2016 - voted for him because they obviously see danger on the left. Just like people on the left see clear danger on the right. And in my opinion both sides are correct in the concerns. But acting like one side is solely & entirely the problem is insane to me.

 

You literally had both sides in the streets rioting, destroying things, exc. within the same 6 month stretch. People say that if these people in DC we're black they would've been dealt with more forcibly, and I definitely don't deny there is something to that point. BUT keep in mind - BLM was allowed to take over & occupy (they were basically handed) a big chunk of a major US city for a significant period of time - without military coming in and slaughtering people like its assumed the inherently racist USA would generally do. 

 

Now before I get jumped on; that's not a justification for these alt right wingers breaking into a freaking federal building. Its absolutely a major threat to democracy as every has said - and should be dealt with as such. Trump's time is done & it can't come fast enough - its time for the West to heal. Also, at this point just throw Rudy Giuliani in jail for all I care. 

No they didn't vote for Trump in 2016 because they saw danger. They just drank the Kool-aid thinking he was a "self made billionaire" who was going to "drain the swamp".

Not being smart enough if you observed Trump since the 1980's you see a trail of failed marriages, and failed businesses. Basically for him looking for legal loopholes is his whole schtick. This isn't some developer who constantly makes money. He's earned and blown millions. Only Bankruptcy allowing him to hold on to important assets has saved him. The banks seem to love just loaning him money, where as a regular person who declared bankruptcy, a bank wouldn't touch you. 

 

Trump is all image, no substance. Trophy wife, trophy mansion, everything is for show. Propped up with lie after lie after lie. All you have to do is watch "Who killed the USFL?" on 30 for 30. It's pretty clear it was Trump. His arrogance made them switch from Spring to Fall. With the fall of the league. Trump was trying to get leverage to get the bigger teams merged into the NFL. (Preferably his the Generals). When interviewed about the lawsuit and how the USFL won but won $1.00, in damages. And asking tough questions. Trump ended the interview. And that was about a football team! 

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31 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

No they didn't vote for Trump in 2016 because they saw danger. They just drank the Kool-aid thinking he was a "self made billionaire" who was going to "drain the swamp".

Not being smart enough if you observed Trump since the 1980's you see a trail of failed marriages, and failed businesses. Basically for him looking for legal loopholes is his whole schtick. This isn't some developer who constantly makes money. He's earned and blown millions. Only Bankruptcy allowing him to hold on to important assets has saved him. The banks seem to love just loaning him money, where as a regular person who declared bankruptcy, a bank wouldn't touch you. 

 

Trump is all image, no substance. Trophy wife, trophy mansion, everything is for show. Propped up with lie after lie after lie. All you have to do is watch "Who killed the USFL?" on 30 for 30. It's pretty clear it was Trump. His arrogance made them switch from Spring to Fall. With the fall of the league. Trump was trying to get leverage to get the bigger teams merged into the NFL. (Preferably his the Generals). When interviewed about the lawsuit and how the USFL won but won $1.00, in damages. And asking tough questions. Trump ended the interview. And that was about a football team! 

 

Except I wasn't talking about 2016, I was talking about this past election. There were alot of people who, as I said liked him less now than 2016, that still reluctantly voted for him because of what they saw with the left. Your preaching to the choir on all the issues with Trump.

 

I think some people held out hope in 2016 that he could be something different, drank the kool-aid as you say. And that was obviously proven wrong, he was just like any other politician (as he claimed not to be). But that wasn't my point. 

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1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Except I wasn't talking about 2016, I was talking about this past election. There were alot of who, as I said liked him less now than 2016, that still reluctantly voted for him because of what they saw with the left.

 

Your preaching to the choir on all the issues with Trump, I think some people had hope in 2016 that he could be something different - obviously proven wrong, just like any other politician as he claimed not to be. But that wasn't my point. 

There were also a lot that liked him more in 2020 than in 2016.  If anybody reading this knows a few Trumptards in real life they know what I'm talking about.  

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2 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

It was an act of insurrection and attempted coup.

 

Catanzara, and anyone else who can't understand that, is out to lunch. 

 

 

I keep think of Constanza when I read that last name....

 

 

:P

 

 

 

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Just now, Coda said:

There were also a lot that liked him more in 2020 than in 2016.  If anybody reading this knows a few Trumptards in real life they know what I'm talking about.  

 

Of course. He only built up steam with the Trumptards. Look at them now attacking a government building b/c they refuse to give up Trump's narrative.

 

I'm more referring to people - center-ish perhaps - who didn't have automatic allegiance to either party/candidate coming into 2020. 

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This is the clearest video of the female insurrectionist getting shot while trying to force her way into the House chambers. 

 

It's totally clear that she tried to force her way in.

 

 

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On 1/3/2021 at 6:26 PM, CBH1926 said:

Never thought I would ever agree on anything with Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-election-defense-secretaries-public-letter/index.html

Me too I guess. At least it took multiple decades for that to happen once.

Edited by Red Light Racicot
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