Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

USA Politics/Election Thread: Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Democrats, Republicans, et al.


DonLever

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

This has been pointed out.

 

Do you believe his motivation can be compared to Hitler's and Stalin's motivations for what they did ?

And the scope on a world scale if what they did ?

 

 

Was Germany and Russia occupied by nations,a couple of them had turned part of the chinese people into drug addicts just to make a profit if them.

 

Research the history of the first and second opium wars.

What do you believe would happen if China tried to do what the western powers had done and are still in some ways trying to do - pivot to Asia ?

 

It really doesn’t matter what Mao’s intentions were if the end result was the deaths of millions. The deaths still happened. 
 

The Opium Wars were brutal and have probably scarred the Chinese psyche against western nations. If China had been the aggressor in the Opium wars, Britain would have most likely fought back. 
 

None of these horrible incidents in the past give the CCP a pass though. This government is still a subversive totalitarian dictatorship dressed up as a communist nation mingling with capitalism. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

What is happening to the Ughuirs is _$@#$" up.

I despise people that persecute others.

What China is doing in regards to Hong Kong is $@$# up.

I believe people have the right to choose how they want to live.

Same. 

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

A lot of people in the west have forgotten what the Chinese government has done since 1990.

To lift nearly a billion people out of poverty is an incredible feat.

https://www.bbc.com/news/56213271

100,000,000 isn’t 1,000,000,000. It is an impressive feat, but when a country allows its population to balloon like China has, you’re going to run into poverty issues. The CCP did that because they could. They had no political infighting to deal with. And if they did encounter dissent, they just make the dissenters disappear. 

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Meanwhile here in the west real wages have been stagnant,the rich are getting richer, there are more working poor and or those who want more hours of work.

It’s ugly, without a doubt. People are slaves to a different master here. We are entering some very desperate times. 

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

As I have stated no leader is perfect however it is obvious who cares about their people and who cares about power.

How is it obvious? Most politicians just care about maintaining power. Jinping is no different. He’s been known to exhibit frightening megalomaniacal tendencies, but surely the devious CCP will deny it, like they deny everything. 

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Joe Biden or Mitch McConnell didn't live in a cave for seven years of their lives.

Probably not. What are you getting at with this? 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Hitler was not well intentioned.

Stalin was not well intentioned.

 

Neither of those guys really cared for their people.

And their actions affected hundreds of millions of people outside of their countries.

 

Mao's actions while he did want to help his people did have a major negative impact on lives within his country however not on other countries.

So to compare him to Hitler and Stalin is ludicrous.

 

Hitler was responsible for genocide

Check out the definition of that word.

If one has not been responsible for it how can you compare that person to one who has.

I get your point, but I don't think I'd categorize Mao's actions as well intentioned...

 

He had what he thought was a good idea for the country, but he didn't seem to care how many people died, or how much misery he caused in order to bring that idea to fruition:

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/great-leap-forward.asp

 

 

Quote

 

Private plot farming was abolished and rural farmers were forced to work on collective farms where all production, resource allocation, and food distribution was centrally controlled by the Communist Party. Large scale irrigation projects, with little input from trained engineers, were initiated, and experimental, unproven new agricultural techniques were quickly introduced around the country.

These innovations resulted in declining crop yields from failed experiments and improperly constructed water projects. A nationwide campaign to exterminate sparrows, which Mao believed were major pest on grain crops, resulted in massive locust swarms in the absence of natural predation by the sparrows. Grain production fell sharply, and hundreds of thousands died from forced labor and exposure to the elements on irrigation construction projects and communal farming. 

Famine quickly set in across the countryside, resulting in millions more deaths. People resorted to eating tree bark and dirt, and in some areas to cannibalism. Farmers who failed to meet grain quotas, tried to get more food, or attempted to escape were tortured and killed along with their family members via beating, public mutilation, being buried alive, scalding with boiling water, and other methods.

 

 

  • Upvote 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I get your point, but I don't think I'd categorize Mao's actions as well intentioned...

 

He had what he thought was a good idea for the country, but he didn't seem to care how many people died, or how much misery he caused in order to bring that idea to fruition:

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/great-leap-forward.asp

 

 

 

Yeah, Mao was as much of a monster as Hitler or Stalin. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Yeah, Mao was as much of a monster as Hitler or Stalin. 

Yeah, I don’t much care for the “levels” of the world’s worst people. Scum is scum is scum. Arguing relative semantics about their intentions is what most people would call a waste of time; others would call it a humongous waste of time. We obviously have a commie in our midst. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Vintage 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I do not engage in discussion with people who I do not have respect for, and I've just lost all respect for you.

I feel sorry for you.

You are a very narrow minded person who lets emotion overide reason and logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It really doesn’t matter what Mao’s intentions were if the end result was the deaths of millions. The deaths still happened. 
 

The Opium Wars were brutal and have probably scarred the Chinese psyche against western nations. If China had been the aggressor in the Opium wars, Britain would have most likely fought back. 
 

None of these horrible incidents in the past give the CCP a pass though. This government is still a subversive totalitarian dictatorship dressed up as a communist nation mingling with capitalism. 

It matters if you are comparing him to Hitler and Stalin and that was what I was replying to.

He fought to free his people from oppressive occupiers and then tried to make their lives better.

Neither Hitler or Stalin did that.

Stalin actually signed the Molotov- Ribbentrop pact which was designed to divide up Poland between Germany and Russia.

 

They both had huge negative affects on hundreds of millions of lives outside of their respective countries.

 

Mao did not.

 

I have never said he was a Saint or even a good leader.

 

 

 

Have I once stated that the ccp deserves a pass ?

No.

 

And as I have pointed out in the last 30 years the Chinese leadership has raised nearly 1 billion people out of poverty while here in the west more people are sliding into poverty.

You can literally see the middle-class disappearing.

 

I despise the way our government here in Aus is using xenophobia of China to further its own political ends.

And real Aussies are suffering the consequences of this.

Both at a trade level and a personal one.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/03/nearly-one-in-five-chinese-australians-threatened-or-attacked-in-past-year-survey-finds

 

While the CCP are blatant about the means they use to control their populace over here in the west governments are more subtle and devious in their attempts at doing so.

 

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/government-is-stripping-away-our-civil-liberties,13846

 

People are naive if they believe China is the only nation that is stripping away peoples rights.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I get your point, but I don't think I'd categorize Mao's actions as well intentioned...

 

He had what he thought was a good idea for the country, but he didn't seem to care how many people died, or how much misery he caused in order to bring that idea to fruition:

 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/great-leap-forward.asp

 

 

 

As I have just stated brother I have never claimed he was a Saint or even a good leader however he actually fought and led his people against a tyrannical oppressor.

 

He was praised for improving the status of women in China.

He improved literacy and education.

He was single-minded in his attempts to improve his peoples lives and that had a huge negative effect when he got it wrong.

The world has been broken on the best of intentions.

 

Hitler and Stalin never had the best of intentions.

 

Again I will state he cannot be compared to Hitler or Stalin.

Their effect on the world outside their respective countries was far greater in a negative way.

 

Thank you and Phil for the respectful,civil way you post/discuss a subject.

It is much appreciated and something that is disappearing,civility as well as logic and reason.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sean Monahan said:

Yeah, I don’t much care for the “levels” of the world’s worst people. Scum is scum is scum. Arguing relative semantics about their intentions is what most people would call a waste of time; others would call it a humongous waste of time. We obviously have a commie in our midst. 

I was 14 when I read Karl Marx and Frederick Engels Communist Manifesto.

I thought this is the shizzle,one gets a telly,we all get a telly.

One gets a car,we all get a car.

Then a delved further into both the subject and it's implementation into various societies.

I soon came to the conclusion that it was just another failed experiment in the governance of humans.

 

One if the major things it does not take into account is human nature, the fact that while we are all equal,we are not all of equal ability and more importantly we all do not contribute to our societies in an equal manner.

 

There are sheep and there area Wolves.

Unfortunately most people are sheep.

If you promise them a form of security they will trade their freedoms and indeed their individuality for that security.

 

Me,I do not like being told what to do.

I am capable of looking after myself and others as well.

 

I am an agnostic humanist who treats others in the manner I wish to be treated myself.

 

I understand these things make me an anachronism in today's world.

 

Talking/discussing history/ our past mistakes is the first step on the road to not making those same mistakes again.

Edited by Ilunga
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Same. 

100,000,000 isn’t 1,000,000,000. It is an impressive feat, but when a country allows its population to balloon like China has, you’re going to run into poverty issues. The CCP did that because they could. They had no political infighting to deal with. And if they did encounter dissent, they just make the dissenters disappear. 

It’s ugly, without a doubt. People are slaves to a different master here. We are entering some very desperate times. 

How is it obvious? Most politicians just care about maintaining power. Jinping is no different. He’s been known to exhibit frightening megalomaniacal tendencies, but surely the devious CCP will deny it, like they deny everything. 

Probably not. What are you getting at with this? 

Ping certainly cares more for his people than trump did/ does and he told/tells a lot less lies.

The article states 745,000,000 lifted out of poverty since 1990.

That is an incredible feat.

 

 

That after living for seven years in a cave he would be more in touch with the average person in China than trump or even Biden and McConnell are with theirs.

While I believe Biden cares for his people, Mitch is just as much if not more ruthless than Ping and I guarantee you he does not give a rat's arse about the American people.

Edited by Ilunga
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

It matters if you are comparing him to Hitler and Stalin and that was what I was replying to.

He fought to free his people from oppressive occupiers and then tried to make their lives better.

Neither Hitler or Stalin did that.

Stalin actually signed the Molotov- Ribbentrop pact which was designed to divide up Poland between Germany and Russia.

All three probably thought in their demented way that they were helping their people. Their people being the ones who would do whatever they said.

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

They both had huge negative affects on hundreds of millions of lives outside of their respective countries.

 

Mao did not.

 

I have never said he was a Saint or even a good leader.

I agree that China has rarely engaged in an international conflict.

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Have I once stated that the ccp deserves a pass ?

No.

It was a rhetorical statement rather than a pointed one at you.

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

And as I have pointed out in the last 30 years the Chinese leadership has raised nearly 1 billion people out of poverty while here in the west more people are sliding into poverty.

You can literally see the middle-class disappearing.

Was the impetus of getting those people out of poverty an altruistic one, or was it borne out of necessity? I mean, letting millions starve to death within your own country would have been a massive black mark against the CCP that they would have never recovered from.

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I despise the way our government here in Aus is using xenophobia of China to further its own political ends.

How so? From what I've read Australia hasn't been out of line. 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

And real Aussies are suffering the consequences of this.

Both at a trade level and a personal one.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/03/nearly-one-in-five-chinese-australians-threatened-or-attacked-in-past-year-survey-finds

That's unfortunate. People singling out others because of their appearance, and then attaching a mistaken assumption to that is truly stupid. I know quite a few Chinese Canadians who have been in this country for three generations. 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

While the CCP are blatant about the means they use to control their populace over here in the west governments are more subtle and devious in their attempts at doing so.

 

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/government-is-stripping-away-our-civil-liberties,13846

 

People are naive if they believe China is the only nation that is stripping away peoples rights.

While that has some truth to it, outright punishing people for attempting to speak freely is despotic. Certainly Western nations are trying to tighten the grip they have on the average citizen, but the average citizen can go right back at them and call them out and not fear that the government will then come after them for it. There have been reports of quite a few people in Wuhan who were walking around the city and taking pictures, these are citizens of Wuhan, who were approached by police for doing so, and then these folks disappeared. Even a year later, their families haven't seen them. Something is wrong with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don’t know whether to laugh or cry on this one:

 


If there were only some way to really investigate what happened and get to the bottom of it.


Like, I dunno, maybe a bipartisan January 6th commission? <_<
 

And Revolver News being “one of the last honest outlets on the internet?

 

Lol, yeah sure, a “news” source with a questionable level of factual reporting and rated as having an “extreme right” media bias? Sounds trustworthy to me. :lol:

 

Gotta love how the right wing media somehow manages to completely ignore the obvious role of Trump and the GOP in the insurrection, and instead looks to turn the blame on the Biden administration for “covering up” what actually happened on January 6th.

 

Of course, Fox News has demonstrated that “no reasonable person” would believe this reporting from Tucker (or Revolver News), but unfortunately, their audience isn’t composed of reasonable people, so I’m sure this is going to get a lot of traction (I mean, many of these people still think that “Antifa” stormed the Capital while cosplaying as “patriots”). :sadno:

  • Hydration 1
  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

A who's who of absolute trash.  Why are we not surprised to see certain names in this list.  

 

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-vote-capitol-police-gold-medals-insurrection-1601129

Full List of Republicans Who Voted Against Medals for January 6 Police

 

The House has overwhelmingly passed legislation to award the Congressional Gold Medal to the police officers who defended the U.S. Capitol during the January 6 riots.

Lawmakers approved the award for the Capitol Police and the Metropolitan Police Department of Washington, D.C. by a vote of 406-21. All the "no" votes came from Republicans.

The 21 GOP lawmakers include ardent supporters of former President Donald Trump, some who have attempted to downplay the events of January 6 and others who have previously been linked to the QAnon conspiracy theory.

After the vote, a number of the Republican "no" voters said they took issue with the language used in the bill, which described the rioters as "a mob of insurrectionists."

Rep. Thomas Massie of Kentucky said this could have an effect on the hundreds of suspects who have been charged in connection with the events of January 6.

"I think, if we call that an insurrection, it could have a bearing on their case that I don't think would be good," Massie said, via The Hill.

"If they just wanted to give the police recognition, they could have done it without trying to make it partisan, without sticking that in there."

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia said she had voted against the bill because it referred to the Capitol as a "temple."

"I wouldn't call it an insurrection," Greene told Politico.

Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania said: "It's all politics. It's all garbage."

Full list of Republicans who voted "no" to awarding the Congressional Gold Medal to police officers who defended the Capitol

  • Andy Biggs, Arizona
  • Lauren Boebert, Colorado
  • Michael Cloud, Texas
  • Andrew Clyde, Georgia
  • Warren Davidson, Ohio
  • Matt Gaetz, Florida
  • Louie Gohmert, Texas
  • Bob Good, Virginia
  • Paul Gosar, Arizona
  • Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia
  • Andy Harris, Maryland
  • Jody Hice, Georgia
  • Thomas Massie, Kentucky
  • Mary Miller, Illinois
  • Barry Moore, Alabama
  • Ralph Norman, South Carolina
  • Scott Perry, Pennsylvania
  • John Rose, Tennessee
  • Matt Rosendale, Montana
  • Chip Roy, Texas
  • Greg Steube, Florida

A number of lawmakers expressed their outrage at the representatives who had voted against the motion.

"How you can vote no to this is beyond me," tweeted Rep. Adam Kinzinger, a Republican from Illinois who is an outspoken critic of Trump.

"Then again, denying an insurrection is as well. To the brave Capitol (and DC metro PD) thank you. To the 21: they will continue to defend your right to vote no anyway."

In a CNN interview on Tuesday night, Rep. Gerald Connolly, a Democrat from Virginia, said: "They voted to overturn an election. But in their vote today, they kind of sealed the deal of basically affiliating with the mob.

"They now are part of the insurrectionist mob. They brought enormous disrepute and dishonor on themselves in not honoring the brave men and women who defended the Capitol of the United States—everybody in it, but also defending the symbol of democracy in the world, not just here in the United States."

Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts said it was "sick" that the 21 Republicans had voted against the bill.

"But I mean, they have to live with themselves," the Democratic congressman told Politico. "It's sad, pathetic."

In a statement to Newsweek, a Capitol Police spokesperson said: "We are humbled and honored for the beautiful recognition."

The Metropolitan Police Department has also been contacted for comment.

  • Thanks 1
  • Vintage 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Ping certainly cares more for his people than trump did/ does and he told/tells a lot less lies.

I don't think that's a verifiable statement at all. 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

The article states 745,000,000 lifted out of poverty since 1990.

That is an incredible feat.

Certainly. Having a population of over a billion will certainly contribute to that though. Perhaps if China hadn't have allowed their population to balloon to that number they could have avoided the poverty?

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

That after living for seven years in a cave he would be more in touch with the average person in China than trump or even Biden and McConnell are with theirs.

While I believe Biden cares for his people, Mitch is just as much if not more ruthless than Ping and I guarantee you he does not give a rat's arse about the American people.

How many Chinese people live in caves? I don't really trust the words of career politicians at all. They're trained to twist the truth. Biden, McConnell and Jinping are all politicians with decades of experience. They are all out of touch with the needs of the average person. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • DonLever changed the title to USA Politics/Election Thread: Joe Biden, Donald Trump, Democrats, Republicans, et al.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...