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Once again, no shame Leafs tank


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1 minute ago, Winter Soldier said:

I'm sure Islanders fans are thrilled that such a talented team can't cross the hurdle of the first round of the playoffs.

But hey, progress.

Panthers have had 17 picks in the top 10 (10 in the top 5) over the last 22 years and that's got them a total of 7 playoff series in 22 years.  17 non playoffs with 3 first round exists.But yes this there they are in a playoff spot riding the 36 (turning 37) Luongo and a 43 year old legend......Progress.   

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7 minutes ago, Winter Soldier said:

I'm sure Islanders fans are thrilled that such a talented team can't cross the hurdle of the first round of the playoffs.

But hey, progress.

 

The first round for Garth Snow & Charles Wang is an accomplishment. ;) 

 

Very few teams can miss the playoffs 5 years running then go straight to the conference finals and win the Cup the next year like Chicago. Most usually build their way there over 3-4 years. 

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8 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Panthers have had 17 picks in the top 10 (10 in the top 5) over the last 22 years and that's got them a total of 7 playoff series in 22 years.  17 non playoffs with 3 first round exists.But yes this there they are in a playoff spot riding the 36 (turning 37) Luongo and a 43 year old legend......Progress.   

 

Dale Tallon finally brought in solid veterans to help his team. Dont forget Willie Mitchell too 

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Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Panthers have had 17 picks in the top 10 (10 in the top 5) over the last 22 years and that's got them a total of 7 playoff series in 22 years.  17 non playoffs with 3 first round exists.But yes this there they are in a playoff spot riding the 36 (turning 37) Luongo and a 43 year old legend......Progress.   

I question how much of the Panthers you have watched if you think Jagr and Luongo are the drivers of their success. Are you not even going to mention Ekblad and Barkov?

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1 minute ago, Toews said:

I question how much of the Panthers you have watched if you think Jagr and Luongo are the drivers of their success. Are you not even going to mention Ekblad and Barkov?

Barkov has been hurt for a good chunk and yes he's played star status in the games but if it isn't for Luongo's year he's having panthers aren't even close to the team the standings says they are.  Have your actually watched the panthers?  Can you honestly say that Luongo isn't there MVP this year?

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9 minutes ago, Gnarcore said:

 

The first round for Garth Snow & Charles Wang is an accomplishment. ;) 

 

Very few teams can miss the playoffs 5 years running then go straight to the conference finals and win the Cup the next year like Chicago. Most usually build their way there over 3-4 years. 

It's not about stampeding to the conference finals and beyond. It is about beating a single team in a seven game series.

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Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Barkov has been hurt for a good chunk and yes he's played star status in the games but if it isn't for Luongo's year he's having panthers aren't even close to the team the standings says they are.  Have your actually watched the panthers?  Can you honestly say that Luongo isn't there MVP this year?

Luongo has played great this year, no one can deny that. You overstated the impact of Jagr though. He is a good player but he is one piece of many. I just felt it strange that you would mention Jagr when there are quite a few names you should have mentioned before him.

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Just now, Winter Soldier said:

It's not about stampeding to the conference finals and beyond. It is about beating a single team in a seven game series.

The Islanders just started to put things together last year when they acquired Boychuk and Leddy. Isn't it early to declare their rebuild a failure after one first round playoff loss? Now that they moved in Barclays they should have more money to spend towards the cap. 

Perhaps you are referencing their 20+year streak but you can't hold the current team responsible for past failures.

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7 hours ago, Toews said:

First of all I have to say I hate the word tanking, it is too often misinterpreted by many people. I prefer the term "pro-rebuild" better than "pro-tank". Some assumptions that people make up about pro-rebuilders that I disagree with.

 

There is a big difference between pro-tanking and pro-rebuild.  Because in fact the two have separate meanings.  You don't want people to paint all pro-tankers/rebuilders under the same brush but then you kind go on to speak on behave off all pro-tankers/rebuilders which doesn't work. Because for every one of your points there have been pro tankers stating the exact opposite of your rebuttal.  

For example your 3rd point. There are countless post on this board of pro tankers wishing that exact case.  "Sell off anyone that has value or will make this better than a top 5 pick" is the common opinion.  So you see you can't speak on behave of that crowd as they have different views. 

Pro-rebuild is very different than pro tank,  I don't think anyone is advocating an Anti-rebuild stance stating that we should do everything possible to prevent us from missing the playoffs.  I don't see any proposals for a trade Horvat/Picks for UFA rentals to help get us over the hump. But I do see a lot of discussion regarding let us finish were we may and not for us or mgmt to do anything to go out of our way for a higher draft pick (anti-tank)

If all this post is doing is pointing out that "you" are for a rebuild, great, but this topic is about tanking, not rebuilding. 

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Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

There is a big difference between pro-tanking and pro-rebuild.  Because in fact the two have separate meanings.  You don't want people to paint all pro-tankers/rebuilders under the same brush but then you kind go on to speak on behave off all pro-tankers/rebuilders which doesn't work. Because for every one of your points there have been pro tankers stating the exact opposite of your rebuttal.  

For example your 3rd point. There are countless post on this board of pro tankers wishing that exact case.  "Sell off anyone that has value or will make this better than a top 5 pick" is the common opinion.  So you see you can't speak on behave of that crowd as they have different views. 

Pro-rebuild is very different than pro tank,  I don't think anyone is advocating an Anti-rebuild stance stating that we should do everything possible to prevent us from missing the playoffs.  I don't see any proposals for a trade Horvat/Picks for UFA rentals to help get us over the hump. But I do see a lot of discussion regarding let us finish were we may and not for us or mgmt to do anything to go out of our way for a higher draft pick (anti-tank)

If all this post is doing is pointing out that "you" are for a rebuild, great, but this topic is about tanking, not rebuilding. 

Not trying to speak on anyone's behalf. When I say "We" I meant anyone who had a reasonable idea of what an actual rebuild would look like. Everyone just paints anyone who advocates a rebuild as someone that is "pro-tank" and along with that comes a whole bunch of assumptions of what my position is in regards to the team's future. You may not see it but it does occur. Many of the people that share my position are accused of all those things, even that they aren't fans of the team and have no pride.

You may not put me in tank group but a majority of the posters on this forum would likely classify me as just that. I want the Canucks to gradually trade guys like Hamhuis, Vrbata, Edler and Burrows, even if they have to retain the maximum amount to achieve a reasonable return. I do not want these players replaced with overpriced older players. In my scenario of rebuild aside from the Sedins and maybe Hansen, none of the veterans on the team are safe. 

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On 2016-02-10 at 11:56 PM, MoneypuckOverlord said:

the thing about the Leafs was they were actually still in a playoff position when they fired Randy Carlyle ,  its like they watched the World Juniors, fell in love with McDavid, realized ok, we are too good to draft him, lets do a mid season tank, hire an incompetent man, gut the roster and hope for the best.    rather disgraceful.   They were actually pretty good, and at that time, recently beat Detroit at the winter classic.

Likewise with Buffalo - where Murray took a shameless course to as-bad-as-possible - and went so far as crybabying publicly when they didn't get the 1st overall.

Odd thing - I hate the course the Oilers have taken over the past half decade, but I actually preferred them to land McDavid over Buffalo.   Edmonton actually put in an effort to play decent hockey down the stretch last year iirc.

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Agree, the Buffalo whine last year was odd and lame. I also hate how the Oilers have gone and how they have just gotten pick after top pick and done nothing. I think the only thing worse is this year that both Edmonton, totally undeserving of any high end pick, and toronto are in contention for #1 overall. Both teams have just been horrid in their product iced for fans, how their fans chirp everyone else about how awesome they were. The leafs are even worse this year with their clear attempt to tank hard. Trading away anything they have to drop further and further. So many players still on long term injury reserve. There is no intention of bring Lupul or JVR back anytime soon. May actually improve their chances of winning a game. Babcock is trying to win still but when you take his pieces away what can he do?

 

It's just sad that one of these two teams is likely to get Mathews. The media and fan yapping would be unbearable from the leafs and the Oilers just don't deserve another first overall pick. Maybe Messier could make some more commercials though.

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i still don't understand some of the pro playoff fans what is the point of making the playoff knowing the team is not good enough.. and what is the point of finishing just below the playoff and have a mid pick? either you have a team good enough to make the playoff and go all in.. or you have a team that's not good enough and you go all out trying to make the team better? i don't give a crap about this winning mentality crap.. these guys are professionals.. they should be able to deal with it.. there ain't no winning feeling in the locker room when you get knocked out of the playoff in the 1st round year in year out or finishing just below the playoff.. so wtf is the difference? as it currently stands, we are the worse of all the Canadian teams out there prospect wise.. and we'll likely be the worse of the Canadian teams out there for years to come continuing picking in the 10+ range. sure Oilers and Leafs are bad.. but at least they have the prospect and the potential to get good a lot sooner than the Canucks will..  those that think we can get top players thru trades or ufa.. give your head a shake.. we don't have the players or prospect other team wants for a star player and we ain't in the position to trade for one as we don't have a lot of good prospect to begin with.. and star players that makes it to the ufa? usually wanted to go to a certain team.. Parise/Suter for example

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11 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i still don't understand some of the pro playoff fans what is the point of making the playoff knowing the team is not good enough.. and what is the point of finishing just below the playoff and have a mid pick? either you have a team good enough to make the playoff and go all in.. or you have a team that's not good enough and you go all out trying to make the team better? i don't give a crap about this winning mentality crap.. these guys are professionals.. they should be able to deal with it.. there ain't no winning feeling in the locker room when you get knocked out of the playoff in the 1st round year in year out or finishing just below the playoff.. so wtf is the difference? as it currently stands, we are the worse of all the Canadian teams out there prospect wise.. and we'll likely be the worse of the Canadian teams out there for years to come continuing picking in the 10+ range. sure Oilers and Leafs are bad.. but at least they have the prospect and the potential to get good a lot sooner than the Canucks will..  those that think we can get top players thru trades or ufa.. give your head a shake.. we don't have the players or prospect other team wants for a star player and we ain't in the position to trade for one as we don't have a lot of good prospect to begin with.. and star players that makes it to the ufa? usually wanted to go to a certain team.. Parise/Suter for example

I don’t think people are considered pro playoffs instead people are pro effort.  If we happen to make the playoffs awesome if not, at least we can say we gave it are all.

 

As soon as loosing becomes acceptable it’s a hard habit to break, even if your team gets loaded up on talent, why do you think the leafs kept Nylander in the minors. 

 

PS as of right now, I wouldn’t even considering trading all the Canucks prospects for the leaf prospects.    

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18 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

I don’t think people are considered pro playoffs instead people are pro effort.  If we happen to make the playoffs awesome if not, at least we can say we gave it are all.

 

As soon as loosing becomes acceptable it’s a hard habit to break, even if your team gets loaded up on talent, why do you think the leafs kept Nylander in the minors. 

 

PS as of right now, I wouldn’t even considering trading all the Canucks prospects for the leaf prospects.    

tanking doesn't mean not trying.. you can toss in all ur prospect and play your best to compete for spots for the following years and so on. the kids knows if they don't try they'll be out of the league real fast. yes losing is not acceptable nor should it be. but if your team ain't good enough you are going to lose anyways. losing doesn't mean not trying to play your best. How are they suppose to build a winning environment in a mediocre team anyways? 

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