Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Benning TSN 1040 (March 9)


Gstank29

Are you excited for Trymakin  

263 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, lmm said:

1 goal in 33 games is special, very special.

Make no mistake, I like McCann, but that does not change that I think he is being rushed.

Why doesn't every team start all their 19 year olds?

 

Oh ya, because its called the Oiler model.

 

Riddle me this, how many goals has McCann scored since he missed the WJC?

I'm honestly kind of with you on this one. We had too many injuries to bring him to the WJC at the time though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, messier's_elbow said:

I'm honestly kind of with you on this one. We had too many injuries to bring him to the WJC at the time though.

If that were the case why not keep Virtanen as well? He was sent to WJC. I don't think they were so injury riddled that they needed McCann. Otherwise they would have played it safe and kept Virtanen as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, TheCammer said:

Gaunce is clearly destined for the wing. Perhaps you all may be right about McCann in the AHL. I think it would be a real step back for McCann. I agree with some of the comments that he would get top minutes and develop faster. I just don't like it from a psychological standpoint.

I think he actually needs it. One goal since December and his faceoffs haven't really improved over the season at all. I think it's part of the reason Granlund was acquired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, TheCammer said:

I suppose it could happen but it feels like it would be a serious step back for McCann. In my opinion it would be a real black eye for the organization on keeping him up this year. Then I might join the ranks of those shouting "Asset mismanagement".

I honestly thought he should have gone to the world juniors and then returned to junior. He a great start to the season and then nothing. He's not ready. I'm sure the way his season has gone McCann knows it's a strong possibility he'll be in Utica next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People were crying at the beginning of the year to keep the kids and then whine when they don't automatically turn into stars. They have not hurt any of the kids development. No one one has been put under pressure to lead the team. That was the Oiler way. The kids have their games managed and use their spare time to work with NHL trainers. It is a good system for sheltering and controlling their environment. Something that won't happen in junior. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, appleboy said:

People were crying at the beginning of the year to keep the kids and then whine when they don't automatically turn into stars. They have not hurt any of the kids development. No one one has been put under pressure to lead the team. That was the Oiler way. The kids have their games managed and use their spare time to work with NHL trainers. It is a good system for sheltering and controlling their environment. Something that won't happen in junior. 

I agree.  Even though I think a season or two in Utica is exactly what he needs, keeping him in can this season was better for him than going back to Jr.  He's a kid with a chip on his shoulder and he'll be itching to prove himself going fwd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, appleboy said:

People were crying at the beginning of the year to keep the kids and then whine when they don't automatically turn into stars. They have not hurt any of the kids development. No one one has been put under pressure to lead the team. That was the Oiler way. The kids have their games managed and use their spare time to work with NHL trainers. It is a good system for sheltering and controlling their environment. Something that won't happen in junior. 

I don't think that McCann's development has been damaged by playing in the NHL.  It's true that he has produced few points but they like his play without the puck.  Offinsively he still battles.  He did hit a crossbar last game.  By and large he isn't getting enough space.

The consensus on CDC is to send him to Utica for half a season at least.  I wondered at the time they traded for Granlund that this was the plan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Playing the kids along with Sutters injuries has placed or forced Horvat into a position some what above his experience level.

Horvat does not get sheltered minutes, I think Horvat gets the least sheltered minutes for his experience level in the league.

I'm not sure if it is good or bad for his development but in the words of the modern philosopher Bertuzzi

"it is what it is"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

Playing the kids along with Sutters injuries has placed or forced Horvat into a position some what above his experience level.

Horvat does not get sheltered minutes, I think Horvat gets the least sheltered minutes for his experience level in the league.

I'm not sure if it is good or bad for his development but in the words of the modern philosopher Bertuzzi

"it is what it is"

It's been a tough year for the young gus, especially Bo and Hutton as they've beer relied on to play like seasoned vets, but I think they've shouldered it very well and, ultimately, it will probably be a good character building year for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stawns said:

It's been a tough year for the young gus, especially Bo and Hutton as they've beer relied on to play like seasoned vets, but I think they've shouldered it very well and, ultimately, it will probably be a good character building year for them.

Tougher on Horvat than any other young player IMHO. +/- a very arbitrary stat but my take of Horvat is that it would bother him more than his ppg stat. As he said himself he has never played on a losing team. As you suggested it will make him mentally tougher.

 

As much as players and fans probably realized that change was coming this year was all about roster change. Burrows comments about how he wanted to be remembered spoke so highly of his character and how much he has given this team.

 

The team will be challenged for a number of years going forward. As much as we think Horvat will be a Canuck leader and maybe captain the need in the org is a big 1C prospect. That only comes in a top 3 or 4 pick and IMHO that is why winning games like the Arizona one the other night hurts that chance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Tougher on Horvat than any other young player IMHO. +/- a very arbitrary stat but my take of Horvat is that it would bother him more than his ppg stat. As he said himself he has never played on a losing team. As you suggested it will make him mentally tougher.

 

As much as players and fans probably realized that change was coming this year was all about roster change. Burrows comments about how he wanted to be remembered spoke so highly of his character and how much he has given this team.

 

The team will be challenged for a number of years going forward. As much as we think Horvat will be a Canuck leader and maybe captain the need in the org is a big 1C prospect. That only comes in a top 3 or 4 pick and IMHO that is why winning games like the Arizona one the other night hurts that chance.  

I agree with most of your post. What I don't agree with is a big 1c can only come with a top 4 pick. 

 

I think that's the easiest way to get one. I don't think its the only way. 

 

Look at the past champions 1cs.

 

Chicago

Boston

LA

Pittsburgh

Detroit

 

Out of the last 5 teams that won the cup only 2 of them had a 1c drafted top 4. 

 

Like I said. It may be easier and have a higher percentage to draft one top 4. But it's very possible to find one later in the draft with a little luck. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Tougher on Horvat than any other young player IMHO. +/- a very arbitrary stat but my take of Horvat is that it would bother him more than his ppg stat. As he said himself he has never played on a losing team. As you suggested it will make him mentally tougher.

 

As much as players and fans probably realized that change was coming this year was all about roster change. Burrows comments about how he wanted to be remembered spoke so highly of his character and how much he has given this team.

 

The team will be challenged for a number of years going forward. As much as we think Horvat will be a Canuck leader and maybe captain the need in the org is a big 1C prospect. That only comes in a top 3 or 4 pick and IMHO that is why winning games like the Arizona one the other night hurts that chance.  

I actually think Gaunce will be the next captain, not Bo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, N4ZZY said:

I thought the same thing. until Bo came along. they both have strong leadership qualities. 

Agree, completely.  They'll make up a strong leadership tandem, for sure.  I just think, from interviews and his work ethic, that gaunce seems (at this point) to be a logical choice........he is mature far beyond his years and experience level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

We have been hearing that crap for 10 plus years now as we make excuses for ignoring an important position. Last years best rookie and who will be the most impactful player in his draft year, feasting, beasting, beating in front of the net & bombing shots from the point? Aaron Ekblad! 

 

When a guy already has NHL speed, size, agility, strength, puck skills and acumen >>> draft them where they fall. Regardless of position. This years draft is reputed to have 3 guys that have elite or generational potential. And in the words of our GM 14 or 15 that look like you could pencil them into a Top 6 / Top 4 position in a Cpl years time. This year that includes Chychrun, Juolevi, Sergachev and possibly Bean in the top 15.  IF BPA on the board is D, GRAB THEM!

 

From your own examples Ekman Larsen, Doughty, Burns, Karlsson, you ignored Ekblad, Suter, and Seabrook were all first rounders. Some of the most physically gifted blue liners of the last decade. But, no worries, wait right there!!!

 

We can pick Norris winner in the 3rd round. You personally guarantee it!  Because Chara who could not walk and chew bubble gum when he was drafted, and Weber who had less than 10 goals in junior when drafted became elite D? Because Subban put on 4 inches and 30 lbs of muscle after being drafted. Yeah, so lets skip Doughty, or Seabrook and Karlsson who will all be hall of famers. Because you have some genius pull it out of your butt theory!

 

Among the other quality players you listed, guys had development questions. As do most past about pick 11. But guys like Karlsson & Keith, Barrie & Letang among the top 10 best skaters in the league?  Out & out they should have been drafted earlier.  They were only on the board because some people are just not that smart.

 

And look where this strategy has led? We picked Shinkaruk and his pipsqueak shoulders and questionable NHL speed (not fast enough to outside on AHL D according to Travis Green) instead of Theodore, or Bowey. Each of whom CDC would trade the first overall pick for, 5 days out of 7. We picked Mallet who had no discernable NHL skills instead of Severson, Pelech, Gotisbehere & Parayko. Aprox 15% of NHL second rounders have impactful NHL careers. Less than 10% in the third round. The fact some GM pulls an all star out of there ass every year in the 3rd round does not make it a reliable strategy for building your team.

 

Or that some of those 3rd round picks should have been available there in the first place?

 

 

 

And Dubois? What about him. He's a very, very good prospect. 6'3", NHL size, putting up big numbers, good work rate, decent skills. Among those categorized to probably be a cant miss top 6 forward. If you are categorizing him in the "waste a pick" because he will be a top line forward too rare to miss...  Be prepared to know he has to develop, a LOT actually, to be an NHL top line impact player.  Key point according to draft profiles I have read > "not the most electrifying skater," and "plays within his limits" among other more positive attributes he does have. Could he develop? Sure. You are getting fooled by the 100 plus points he is putting up in the very porous Q. So I'm not passing up Chychrun, who has 10 solid lbs of muscle on Dubois, can skate like the wind & has all the discernable skills you could ever observe in a D man to predict he could be a great player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't ignore any dmen, I simply took the top scoring dmen directly from point totals, these are the top scoring defencemen in the league this year.

 

Chychrun has already been surpassed by next years (2017) defensive crop and being surpassed by Bean. He will probably be an NHL defense man but not of the ilk of the guys you named. Take a look at the 2017 draft prospects, no top line forwards are standing out but dmen are in abundance, the 2018 prospects look much better for forwards as much as looking that far into the future can be accurate. 

 

If Benning is such a scouting messiah, then I am sure he is not just looking at the central scouting list and can find a Byfuglin in the later rounds, maybe he already has but the guy is still in junior, the KHL, the AHL or to be drafted.

 

By your contention Chychrun is going to be the next Doughty, Ekblad or Hedman.

 

You mention the Norris trophy, perhaps you should see where those guys got picked?

Lidstrom, #53 - 3rd round

Chara, #56 - 3 round

Keith, #54 - 2 round

Subban, #43 - 2 round

Karlsson, #15 - 1 round

They represent the last 10 winners and 4 Stanley cup winners

 

What scouting report are you reading with regards to Dubois? The one done last year? He is now starting to be compared to the Finns. 

 

One reason for taking a dman is that it can take up to 3 years to make a judgment. Three years of promises and hope. 

 

No use the first pick to get the best forward possible and use the rest to find a dman is that is the glaring problem, no dman drafted this year is making an impact on the team next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I didn't ignore any dmen, I simply took the top scoring dmen directly from point totals, these are the top scoring defencemen in the league this year.

 

Chychrun has already been surpassed by next years (2017) defensive crop and being surpassed by Bean. He will probably be an NHL defense man but not of the ilk of the guys you named. Take a look at the 2017 draft prospects, no top line forwards are standing out but dmen are in abundance, the 2018 prospects look much better for forwards as much as looking that far into the future can be accurate. 

 

If Benning is such a scouting messiah, then I am sure he is not just looking at the central scouting list and can find a Byfuglin in the later rounds, maybe he already has but the guy is still in junior, the KHL, the AHL or to be drafted.

 

By your contention Chychrun is going to be the next Doughty, Ekblad or Hedman.

 

You mention the Norris trophy, perhaps you should see where those guys got picked?

Lidstrom, #53 - 3rd round

Chara, #56 - 3 round

Keith, #54 - 2 round

Subban, #43 - 2 round

Karlsson, #15 - 1 round

They represent the last 10 winners and 4 Stanley cup winners

 

What scouting report are you reading with regards to Dubois? The one done last year? He is now starting to be compared to the Finns. 

 

One reason for taking a dman is that it can take up to 3 years to make a judgment. Three years of promises and hope. 

 

No use the first pick to get the best forward possible and use the rest to find a dman is that is the glaring problem, no dman drafted this year is making an impact on the team next year.

I get it what your saying. Because we cant draft a D that can play immediately, just wait another year?

 

No thanks! Especially because, even among forwards, the vast majority of players take the 2 or 3 years you quote to become dominant. Effective? Your just prolonging the misery. BTW, if we pick at number 3, and Laine is available, I buy your argument. He could impact right away. And more importantly impact significantly for years.  But at number 6 there are more questions in any forward available, example Dubois being an average skater, than there is picking Chychrun. There are as many, or more, questions picking Macleod as there are Juolevi or Sergachev. I also like Bean, but don't buy he is the best D man in the draft.

 

And to spin other logic you are quoting; this years winner should pass on Mathews. Because Jamie Benn MVP candidate was picked in the first round. Oh wait, he was a 5th rounder. Guys like Zetterburg & Datsyuk were pulled from the nether regions of the draft as well. Its hogwash. We'll be the team that drafts Parayko or Klingburg in the 3rd round.  Its as close to a sure thing as there is in the world, isn't it?

 

You are only making the point as to why we have to start drafting D even clearer. And of course next year the guy who matches your criteria will not be available where we pick either. The odds are so stacked against that guy being available to us, it's immense. Just keep waiting. Just keep waiting. And in the meantime you will draft the next Jordan Schroeder, Nick Jensen, Zach Kassian the next Hunter Shinkaruk who becomes the our saviour...

 

We need to start drafting D. Stockpiling them. And letting the really good ones surface.  The odds are better when you do it more often.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Baggins said:

I honestly thought he should have gone to the world juniors and then returned to junior. He a great start to the season and then nothing. He's not ready. I'm sure the way his season has gone McCann knows it's a strong possibility he'll be in Utica next year.

That would have made more sense to me than next year in Utica.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

 

Rushed?  he's been scratched for quite a few games to spend time in the gym- did you miss that?

 

He obviously has the skill to play in the league.  Going back to junior or the WJC just before that isn't really what he needs.  He needs to experience the pro game albeit at a less drastic pace - which the Canucks are doing.  He knows exactly what he needs to do to excel in the league, and a lot of that is going to be spend off ice working on skill development and working on his strength.  

The Oiler model is to perpetually finish last until you've drafted so many top picks it would be impossible not to have a decent team.  Canucks are icing younger players and doing much better so you need to get your facts straight

What facts do I not have straight?

1 goal in 33 games .  That is a fact.

1 goal since he got roughed up by Getzlaf way back on Nov. 30, 2015.

1 goal since his protector and line mate cut him adrift and stated he needs to look after himself.

That team mate just got cut from Utica, potentially because he was not properly rehabbed from his injury. What is the message there?

Has McCann learned to keep his head up? Rocked twice last week in LA suggests not.

 

Look the injuries the Oilers have sustained? Nuge, Hall and McD have all gotten beaten up because they were in over their heads physically.  It is only luck if that doesn't happen to McCann.

 

Any time you want to counter with some facts of your own, feel free. 

 

You seem to be of the opinion that the NHL regular season is now the time and place for rookies to work on  "skill development and strength training"  While I am working on my facts, maybe you could explain when the NHL became the place for "skill development and strength training"  Is this the "NEW Canuck model"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...