Prospect Swap (Proposal)

[BaerToBo]

There are 2 prospects that I think fit the Canucks. I believe they can both come at a relatively cheap price based on age and situation. 

 

The first is Duncan Siemens. He was drafted 11th overall in the 2011 draft but has not had much success at the pro level. He is a big and physical defenceman who has a good first pass. Hes 22 years old and has 4 points in 43 games with the San Antonio Rampage. He shoots left.

 

Here is a quote I found on eliteprospects.com :

 

Duncan Siemens is a large defenceman with good skating. He plays very physical. He blocks shots and passes well. Hes offensively decent. His shot is ok and has a good first pass.

 

To Colorado: Anton Cederholm

 

To Vancouver: Duncan Siemens, 2016 6th

 

Why Vancouver does this: Jim Benning seems to like taking chances on prospect players and Duncan Siemens fits that mold. Some think he might not get qualified as an RFA this offseason. I could see him having success as a shutdown defenceman.

 

Why Colorado does this: Cederholm is the supirior prospect and there is no room anytime soon for Siemens to brake into the NHL. Also some believe he will not be qualified as an RFA. The 6th is to make up some of the value.

 

The second is Pavel Buchnevich. He was drafted in the 3rd round 75th overall in the 2013 draft. He's 6ft 1in shoots left and plays LW. He was drafted by the New York Rangers and is currently playing in the KHL. He is fast has good hands an NHL frame and is a great playmaker.

 

Here is a quote I found:

 

Buchnevich is a fast skater with a really good shot. He has tremendous offensive instincts-Elite Prospects

 

To Vancouver: Pavel Buchnevich

 

To New York: Cole Cassels, Linden Vey

 

Why Vancouver does this: Although it's a risk to chase Buchnevich he does have high end potential and I think we can afford to take a chance on a skilled russian. We can also afford to lose Cassels from our prospect because of the acquisition of Grandlund. He has top-6 potential and could allow us to draft defenceman in this years draft.

 

Why New Yord does this: Buchnevich is playing in the KHL and I think it would be hard for them to persuade him to come to North America as he's said he will not play in the AHL and New Yord will not have room for him. They get another prospect for the AHL and a solid depth player that can play anywhere in the top-9 for them. Also Buchnevich plays LW. Currently they potentially have Nash,Zuccarelo,Miller, and Hayes. I cannot see Pavel coming to North America to play 4th line.

[Gstank29]

I can tell you the NYR and there fans valve Buchnevich like winning the lottery, there is no way they are trading him

[Toews]

10 minutes ago, Gstank29 said:

I can tell you the NYR and there fans valve Buchnevich like winning the lottery, there is no way they are trading him

This. Not to mention frequently trading 1sts has left them with a depleted prospect pool. Buchnevich is their best prospect by far.

[Z Hockey]

As much upside as Buchnevich has and as resistant as Gorton would be to trade him, that trade is a pretty steep price for us. Vey AND Cassels?? Cassels alone could be 3/4 the player of Buchnevich or even better and Vey alone is a proven playmaker in the NHL.  How about 

 

To VAN: Buchnevich

              5th 2017

 

To NYR: Vey

               Labate

               7th 2016 (Carolina pick from Lack trade)

[goblix]

I'd take a shot on Buchnevich but pass on the defencemen. I feel like Siemens sounds too much alike to Pedan who is likely closer and probably just as effective. I'd prefer to see how the young defence looks like the rest of the year anyways before going deeper on acquiring more young unknowns.

[Toews]

1 hour ago, Z Hockey said:

As much upside as Buchnevich has and as resistant as Gorton would be to trade him, that trade is a pretty steep price for us. Vey AND Cassels?? Cassels alone could be 3/4 the player of Buchnevich or even better and Vey alone is a proven playmaker in the NHL.  How about 

 

To VAN: Buchnevich

              5th 2017

 

To NYR: Vey

               Labate

               7th 2016 (Carolina pick from Lack trade)

Cassels has had injury problems leading to a poor start of his pro career. Vey was on waivers and went unclaimed at the start of the season. Buchnevich has more value than both combined. I don't think he will be a 1st line player but he will be a good 2nd line player. There were rumors that the Rangers were able to deal Duclair because they valued Buch very highly.

 

If the Canucks ask for him, the Rangers will almost certainly ask for something that the Canucks do not want to give up. That isn't Vey, Cassels or Labate.

[messier's_elbow]

7 minutes ago, Toews said:

Cassels has had injury problems leading to a poor start of his pro career. Vey was on waivers and went unclaimed at the start of the season. Buchnevich has more value than both combined. I don't think he will be a 1st line player but he will be a good 2nd line player. There were rumors that the Rangers were able to deal Duclair because they valued Buch very highly.

 

If the Canucks ask for him, the Rangers will almost certainly ask for something that the Canucks do not want to give up. That isn't Vey, Cassels or Labate.

I remember when some idiots on here said they wouldn't trade Cassels for a top 10 pick. Credibility gone. 

[Piggy Bank]

Come on now, would you give away Buchnevich for those packages? 

 

Also, I would take Cederholm over Siemens any day. One has been progressing since they were drafted, and one has been strongly regressing. Would you rather a man from the land of (not saying Cederholm will be) late-round, star defensemen? - Sweden. Or, duncan dang siemens.

[ABNuck]

8 hours ago, BaerToBo said:

There are 2 prospects that I think fit the Canucks. I believe they can both come at a relatively cheap price based on age and situation. 

 

The first is Duncan Siemens. He was drafted 11th overall in the 2011 draft but has not had much success at the pro level. He is a big and physical defenceman who has a good first pass. Hes 22 years old and has 4 points in 43 games with the San Antonio Rampage. He shoots left.

When did the Canucks become the landfill for other team's garbage? We took a chance on Baer but it only cost us a 2nd, and Etem cost us one of our own failed prospects...let's leave it at that, no more reclamation projects. We have enough of our own borderline NHL'ers in Utica...maybe it's time to move forward instead of sideways.

[Blue Jay 22]

I would rather keep Cederholm over Siemens, but I wouldn't necessarily be outraged over the deal. I think Cederholm has the better chance of making it to the NHL, but Siemens in my opinion has the higher ceiling.

 

Buchnevich isn't available.

[Dr Green Lawn]

Siemens is a bust.  I'd rather just keep Cederholm and see how he does in the AHL.

[elvis15]

9 hours ago, Toews said:

Cassels has had injury problems leading to a poor start of his pro career. Vey was on waivers and went unclaimed at the start of the season. Buchnevich has more value than both combined. I don't think he will be a 1st line player but he will be a good 2nd line player. There were rumors that the Rangers were able to deal Duclair because they valued Buch very highly.

 

If the Canucks ask for him, the Rangers will almost certainly ask for something that the Canucks do not want to give up. That isn't Vey, Cassels or Labate.

Cassels has had one injury, sustained and played through in his final junior season as a Memorial Cup winner. He's had a slow transition in the AHL but has picked up a little more lately - remember Shinkaruk's first pro season after injury? But anyone expecting him to challenge for the 1st line center spot on the Canucks any time soon was always going to be disappointed.

 

Vey was on waivers, sure, but now that he's been recalled and played better he likely wouldn't clear. He may not have a lot of value in a trade but looking at anything with tinted lenses (definitely not rose coloured for these two in this case) and as a snapshot in the past will always paint the wrong picture.

 

I can do that too. Buchnevich is rated highly, but he's also very, very small. Sure, he's 6'1" but he's 160lbs! Realistically, that puts him at a disadvantage in the more physical NHL game at least, but unrealistically his smaller size (and only 3 points in 8 playoff games, but 25min of penalties!!) makes him a sure fire bust who we'll never see come over from the KHL who'll surely sign with another NHL team as a free agent even if he does.

 

As for the first deal though, that makes little sense. We get Siemens and they add a 6th? Cederholm isn't a better prospect. Both are physical but have limited offensive potential at the higher levels. Cederholm may have more points in the ECHL right now but he's not likely to produce as well or have as important a role at the AHL level so his output will decrease similar to Siemens' - who, by the way, has done very little offensively despite your description of him having a good first pass (that should translate into more assists on occasion) and is yet another left shooting D so I don't know why we'd want him anyway.

 

I don't see either deal happening, mostly from the other team's perspective, but also from ours to a point.

[Toews]

22 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Cassels has had one injury, sustained and played through in his final junior season as a Memorial Cup winner. He's had a slow transition in the AHL but has picked up a little more lately - remember Shinkaruk's first pro season after injury? But anyone expecting him to challenge for the 1st line center spot on the Canucks any time soon was always going to be disappointed.

 

Vey was on waivers, sure, but now that he's been recalled and played better he likely wouldn't clear. He may not have a lot of value in a trade but looking at anything with tinted lenses (definitely not rose coloured for these two in this case) and as a snapshot in the past will always paint the wrong picture.

 

I can do that too. Buchnevich is rated highly, but he's also very, very small. Sure, he's 6'1" but he's 160lbs! Realistically, that puts him at a disadvantage in the more physical NHL game at least, but unrealistically his smaller size (and only 3 points in 8 playoff games, but 25min of penalties!!) makes him a sure fire bust who we'll never see come over from the KHL who'll surely sign with another NHL team as a free agent even if he does.

Cassels at best projects to be a 3rd line player. I am optimistic that he can pan out but the kind of prospect that he is isn't exactly rare. Most teams have a Cole Cassels in their prospect pool.

 

Like you said Vey doesn't have a lot of value in a trade. Nothing really needs to be said. 

 

I don't know about your source but the Rangers site lists him as 6'1 176. Slightly undersized but definitely not significant enough to hold him out of the NHL. He is 20 years old playing in a men's league since he was 18 years old, using a small sample size of playoff games isn't a good argument.

 

People come up with silly reasons to put down Russian prospects and this is one of the most common. The fact is young Russians want to play in the league with the best competition. With the crash of the rubel it isn't like he will be making a ton of money if he decides to stay in Russia. 

 

Also Buchnevich is another team control for a number of years. Realistically there is no way he isn't signing with New York. He may come over as soon as this summer.

 

There are no tinted glasses. Buchnevich is one of the best drafted prospects not playing in the NHL. He is the Rangers top prospect. That offer is an insult to put it mildly.

[BaerToBo]

16 minutes ago, Toews said:

Cassels at best projects to be a 3rd line player. I am optimistic that he can pan out but the kind of prospect that he is isn't exactly rare. Most teams have a Cole Cassels in their prospect pool.

 

Like you said Vey doesn't have a lot of value in a trade. Nothing really needs to be said. 

 

I don't know about your source but the Rangers site lists him as 6'1 176. Slightly undersized but definitely not significant enough to hold him out of the NHL. He is 20 years old playing in a men's league since he was 18 years old, using a small sample size of playoff games isn't a good argument.

 

People come up with silly reasons to put down Russian prospects and this is one of the most common. The fact is young Russians want to play in the league with the best competition. With the crash of the rubel it isn't like he will be making a ton of money if he decides to stay in Russia. 

 

Also Buchnevich is another team control for a number of years. Realistically there is no way he isn't signing with New York. He may come over as soon as this summer.

 

There are no tinted glasses. Buchnevich is one of the best drafted prospects not playing in the NHL. He is the Rangers top prospect. That offer is an insult to put it mildly.

What I had in mind was more like since Vey has started producing and improving an getting bigger I think his value has gone up. Im thinking he's worth around a 3rd and Cassels around a 2nd. I said Vey instead of the 3rd because I think he has more value right now then a 3rd rounder would for them. Would you rather move Cassels and a 3rd?

[Toews]

1 minute ago, BaerToBo said:

What I had in mind was more like since Vey has started producing and improving an getting bigger I think his value has gone up. Im thinking he's worth around a 3rd and Cassels around a 2nd. I said Vey instead of the 3rd because I think he has more value right now then a 3rd rounder would for them. Would you rather move Cassels and a 3rd?

I just don't think it's anything close to enough. I don't think Cassels is worth a 2nd. Like I said the quality of prospect that he is isn't exactly rare. Vey needs to sustain improved play over a much larger sample size to have that kind of value.

 

Perhaps you are focusing too much on where Buch was drafted, his stock has really taken off since he was drafted. IMO he will be a very good player for the Rangers.

[BaerToBo]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

I just don't think it's anything close to enough. I don't think Cassels is worth a 2nd. Like I said the quality of prospect that he is isn't exactly rare. Vey needs to sustain improved play over a much larger sample size to have that kind of value.

 

Perhaps you are focusing too much on where Buch was drafted, his stock has really taken off since he was drafted. IMO he will be a very good player for the Rangers.

The reason I think Vey is worth a 3rd is because hes a decent top-9 with room to improve. Linden Vey is still fairly young and could be a nediocre top-6 forward one day. Odds are he tops out as a 3rd liner. I'd think a 3rd liner with potential to be a top-6 would have a value if at least a 3rd. And do you remember Jared Stoll? He was a very important piece to LA winning the cup. An  elite shutdown 3rd liner with some offence albeit limited. The reason everyone overvalues Cassels is because he can become a Stoll type player. Another comparable is Kyle Brodziak. So I hope Cassels turns into a Stoll type of player(without the coke addiction) and I think that's worth a 2nd.

[Z Hockey]

10 hours ago, Toews said:

Cassels has had injury problems leading to a poor start of his pro career. Vey was on waivers and went unclaimed at the start of the season. Buchnevich has more value than both combined. I don't think he will be a 1st line player but he will be a good 2nd line player. There were rumors that the Rangers were able to deal Duclair because they valued Buch very highly.

 

If the Canucks ask for him, the Rangers will almost certainly ask for something that the Canucks do not want to give up. That isn't Vey, Cassels or Labate.

Well I wouldn't want to give up Cassels, so what he was injured, he's young, Virtanen had surgery for a shoulder injury at 17 and look at him now. Doesn't matter Vey was on waivers, he's in the NHL, Buchnevich isn't, Vey is now scoring at a steady pace as well.