(Proposal) Offseason Rebuild - long read

[Hortankin]

CANUCKS 2016 OFFSEASON

Lets say come draft day we dont win the lottery and we get the 8th pick. We draft Chychrun or Bean, but Chychrun will most likely be off the board so Bean it is. Now lets get to the trades.

 

TO TBL

EDLER

HANSEN

VEY

3rd/4th

 

TO VAN

DROUIN

 

Why do the Lightning do this?

Drouin is unhappy in Tampa Bay and it looks like he will not be playing another game in a Lightning uniform. They have other issues to worry about this summer with getting Stamkos locked up, so this will have to get done draft day. With this trade they get him to the west coast instead of trading him to a team like Toronto who they will play several times a year. They get a very good hard working middle 6 forward on a very respectable 2.5M cap hit (Hansen), a #2/#3 Dman capable of 20+ minutes a night (Edler), and a young forward playing a lot of minutes playing pretty good hockey since his call up (Vey), and a mid round pick. Unless the Oilers are willing to offer more I geel like this would be enough.

 

CAP SAVED: $8M

 

TO ANH

BURROWS (1M Retained)

MCCANN

2ND

 

TO VAN

THEODORE

 

Why Anahiem does this?

Well lets assume they fail to win it all again. Burrows will be an attractive piece for them. He would have instant chemistry with Kesler and Bieksa, and he has proven he is a great playoff player. Heck him, Kesler, and Bieksa were the 3 biggest factors in our 2011 run... And LUUUUU on top of adding Burrows they also get McCann, the biggest piece they gave up for Kesler. On top of that they get a high 2nd round pick (Basically a 1st) in a deep draft. The Ducks have really good young D and if its for a cup, Theodore is worth it IMO. If there is any shot on getting Burrows to waive its to 1 of 3 teams IMO:

 

Ducks: Kesler, Bieksa connection

 

Rangers: AV connection

 

Montreal: Hometown

 

CAP SAVED: $3.5M 

 

 

TO SJS

MILLER (50% retained)

 

TO VAN

2017 1ST

 

Why San Jose does this?

They will once again going to be knocked out by the Ducks or Kings, and with our luck it will be due to goaltending. If Jones fails to impress i believe a 1st is not out of the question this summer especially since San Jose is looking to put their team over the top. Miller would be a great goalie for Jones to learn from, he did well mentoring Marky Mark. Miller @ 3M is worth a 1st IMHO.

 

CAP SAVED: $3M

 

TO TOR

SJS 2017 1ST 

FOX

 

TO VAN

2ND (31,32 OA) (Sean Day)

 

Why Toronto does this?

To get another mid to late 1st round pick next year, they have plenty of picks to spare a 2nd. 

 

 

With Vbata also coming off the pay roll thats another $5M saved, then Baertschis 900k coming off until we sign him, and Hamhuis' 4.5M coming off as well. That is $24.9M freed up. Sign Baertschi 2 years/2.4M per. That leaves us at 22.5M for UFAs. Heres what our roster now looks like heading into free agency:

 

Sedin Sedin XXXXX

Gaunce Sutter XXXXX

Baertschi Horvat Virtanen

Drouin Granlund Dorsett/Rodin

 

Hutton Tanev

XXXXX Sbisa

XXXXX Tryamkin

Pedan Biega

 

Markstrom

XXXXX

 

UFA SIGNINGS

 

Eriksson - 3yrs @ 5.5M 

Okposo - 2yrs @ 5.5M

Hamhuis - 4yrs @ 2.5M full NMC

Ehroff - 2yrs @ 1.5M

Riemer - 2yrs @ 2M

 

TOTAL CAP SPENT: $17M

 

CAP LEFT: $5.5M

 

Next seasons lines:

 

Sedin Sedin Eriksson

Gaunce Sutter Okposo

Baertschi Horvat Virtanen

Drouin Granlund Dorsett/Rodin

 

Hutton Tanev

Hamhuis Tryamkin

Ehroff Sbisa

Pedan Theodore

 

Markstrom

Riemer

 

 

Prospect pool:

Demko

Boeser

Bean (Matthews/Puljujarvi/Laine)

Day

Subban

Cassels

Zhukenov

Olsen

Jasek

+++

 

Playoffs next year?

 

 

[Hortankin]

Can this get moved to the proposal section?

 

Sorry mods my mistake.

[Spotted Zebra]

San Jose don't have their first for this year do they?

[Hortankin]

3 minutes ago, Spotted Zebra said:

San Jose don't have their first for this year do they?

 Not sure.. Was it traded to the Bruins in the Jones deal?

[-Vintage Canuck-]

1 minute ago, Spotted Zebra said:

San Jose don't have their first for this year do they?

Nope. Sharks' first rounder in 2016 was sent to Boston along with Sean Kuraly for Martin Jones.

 

http://www.thescore.com/news/788388

[Hortankin]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Nope. Sharks' first rounder in 2016 was sent to Boston along with Sean Kuraly for Martin Jones.

 

http://www.thescore.com/news/788388

Well then. I will have to rethink a bit. Sorry guys i guess I should have dont more research instead of assuming. Thanks for the info!

[Phil_314]

Not a fan of trading that much for Drouin, only to use him on the 4th line.  We have enough small skilled wingers as is, and I'm not paying the best D-man on the team to get another one who should be on his way out from his current team.

Also doubt we'd need to move that much for Theodore when we've got decent depth options like Hammer, Hutton, Pedan and Tryamkin for lefties.  Hutton is a decent puck-mover on his own right and the team needs righty options so no to this moves.

Lastly, San Jose doesn't need Miller.  Jones is on pace for 40 wins, just saying.

[Hortankin]

Fixed.

[Hortankin]

1 minute ago, Phil_314 said:

Not a fan of trading that much for Drouin, only to use him on the 4th line.  We have enough small skilled wingers as is, and I'm not paying the best D-man on the team to get another one who should be on his way out from his current team.

Also doubt we'd need to move that much for Theodore when we've got decent depth options like Hammer, Hutton, Pedan and Tryamkin for lefties.  Hutton is a decent puck-mover on his own right and the team needs righty options so no to this moves.

Lastly, San Jose doesn't need Miller.  Jones is on pace for 40 wins, just saying.

3-4 years from now...

 

Drouin XXXXX Boeser

Baertschi Horvat Virtanen

Sedin Sedin XXXXX

Gaunce Sutter XXXXX

 

He will become a 1st liner. Him and Boeser with another skilled center would dominate. Besides, our 4th line plays almost as much as our 1st line. Its not the typical 5 min role we used to have. Were a 4 line team now, look at the lines and put them out where best suited. Pp, pk, offensive zone, d zone, etc. 

[ABNucksfan]

Why doesn't Van pick up Stamkos instead of druin. Make him a good offer. Then we get a youngish sniper in the middle of his glory years.

[Z Hockey]

Tampa offered Drouin for Horvat a while back and Benning obviously declined, that shows what Drouins value is and what Tampa wants in return. So Edler, Hansen, Vey, and a 3rd/4th likely won't cut it, would you trade Horvat for Edler, Hansen, Vey a 3rd/4th?? Don't think so.   And McCanns upside is bigger than Theodores IMO and we overpay in that deal, I wouldn't do it, and Anaheim might not either because Burrows DOESNT make the deal more enticing because of his 4.5 cap hit, they have to re-sign

Perron, McGinn, Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, etc. so adding Burrows is no help to them. Fox was already traded to the Hurricanes for future considerations, and i want to re-sign Etem and Bartkowski, letting Etem go especially would be pretty stupid. I like letting Hamhuis walk,  but with the SJ 2017 1st to TOR deal, why would we give up more for a lower pick? It's always the team moving down a draft spot in a trade that gets a pick or player as well. It would be more like 

 

To Leafs: SJ 1st 2017

 

To Van: 2nd (31-32nd overall)

             (Conditional pick 2017) (Since we wouldn't know where the SJ 2017 1st would be)

[mll]

And in a year wave bye bye to Hutton, Horvat and Markstrom (and Tryamkin and Gaunce) because there won't be enough cap left to sign them as all has been spent this season.  (Exaggerating but not really).
 

Btw WillieD just said that Baertschi-Horvat is a thing of the past.

Tampa is looking for a young cost controlled RD (ie RFA or a high end prospect re Horvat).

Gaunce is seen as a bottom-6 because of his limited offence.

Fox has been traded earlier this month for future considerations to Carolina.

There were reports that Reimer is asking 6M (denied by his agent though).

[Nuxfanabroad]

No way TBay can handle all that incoming salary. You'd have to take some bum like Carle, off their hands.

[Blue Jay 22]

1 hour ago, Phil_314 said:

Not a fan of trading that much for Drouin, only to use him on the 4th line.  We have enough small skilled wingers as is, and I'm not paying the best D-man on the team to get another one who should be on his way out from his current team.

Also doubt we'd need to move that much for Theodore when we've got decent depth options like Hammer, Hutton, Pedan and Tryamkin for lefties.  Hutton is a decent puck-mover on his own right and the team needs righty options so no to this moves.

Lastly, San Jose doesn't need Miller.  Jones is on pace for 40 wins, just saying.

Quite the opposite. Anaheim would probably say no to that proposal. Theodore's trade value is greater than all of them. Also Hamhuis is not a sure thing to be here next year. Pedan and Tryamkin aren't even in the same stratosphere as Theodore in terms of prospects. Theodore is probably at this point a Top 5 defensemen prospect and Top 15 prospect overall.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Z Hockey said:

Tampa offered Drouin for Horvat a while back and Benning obviously declined, that shows what Drouins value is and what Tampa wants in return. So Edler, Hansen, Vey, and a 3rd/4th likely won't cut it, would you trade Horvat for Edler, Hansen, Vey a 3rd/4th?? Don't think so.   And McCanns upside is bigger than Theodores IMO and we overpay in that deal, I wouldn't do it, and Anaheim might not either because Burrows DOESNT make the deal more enticing because of his 4.5 cap hit, they have to re-sign

Perron, McGinn, Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, etc. so adding Burrows is no help to them. Fox was already traded to the Hurricanes for future considerations, and i want to re-sign Etem and Bartkowski, letting Etem go especially would be pretty stupid. I like letting Hamhuis walk,  but with the SJ 2017 1st to TOR deal, why would we give up more for a lower pick? It's always the team moving down a draft spot in a trade that gets a pick or player as well. It would be more like 

 

To Leafs: SJ 1st 2017

 

To Van: 2nd (31-32nd overall)

             (Conditional pick 2017) (Since we wouldn't know where the SJ 2017 1st would be)

Theodore is projected as a #1 and a top pairing defensemen. McCann is projected a Top 6 forward. I have no idea where you get that opinion from. If it's your own personal feelings, that's fine and I won't push further, but every single prospect scouting website and scout in general will disagree with you, and so will GMs.

 

If anything, Burrows adds negative value to that deal because of his contract. 

[Hortankin]

57 minutes ago, Z Hockey said:

Tampa offered Drouin for Horvat a while back and Benning obviously declined, that shows what Drouins value is and what Tampa wants in return. So Edler, Hansen, Vey, and a 3rd/4th likely won't cut it, would you trade Horvat for Edler, Hansen, Vey a 3rd/4th?? Don't think so.   And

McCanns upside is bigger than Theodores IMO and we overpay in that deal, I wouldn't do it, and Anaheim might not either because Burrows DOESNT make the deal more enticing because of his 4.5 cap hit, they have to re-sign

Perron, McGinn, Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, etc. so adding Burrows is no help to them. Fox was already traded to the Hurricanes for future considerations, and i want to re-sign Etem and Bartkowski, letting Etem go especially would be pretty stupid. I like letting Hamhuis walk,  but with the SJ 2017 1st to TOR deal, why would we give up more for a lower pick? It's always the team moving down a draft spot in a trade that gets a pick or player as well. It would be more like 

 

To Leafs: SJ 1st 2017

 

To Van: 2nd (31-32nd overall)

             (Conditional pick 2017) (Since we wouldn't know where the SJ 2017 1st would be)

If Horvat refused to play for us hell yeah I would. Hansen @ 2.5M has a lot more value than say he would if he was getting 4M which he deserves.

 

Burrows cap hit is 3.5M for them since we retain salary. Also we need a D prospect and Burrows' contract off the books, so id totally be down for this trade.

 

Wasnt Fox just basically loaned to them to get AHL playing time?

 

We trade that 2017 1st for the 2nd to grab Sean Day. Thats if he falls that far.

 

 

[Hortankin]

41 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

No way TBay can handle all that incoming salary. You'd have to take some bum like Carle, off their hands.

We do have 5.5M in space to take 1 back. Its the offseason let them worry about unloading him. Maybe they can get a late pick from a team desperate for a dman.

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

Quite the opposite. Anaheim would probably say no to that proposal. Theodore's trade value is greater than all of them. Also Hamhuis is not a sure thing to be here next year. Pedan and Tryamkin aren't even in the same stratosphere as Theodore in terms of prospects. Theodore is probably at this point a Top 5 defensemen prospect and Top 15 prospect overall.

 

 

Theodore is projected as a #1 and a top pairing defensemen. McCann is projected a Top 6 forward. I have no idea where you get that opinion from. If it's your own personal feelings, that's fine and I won't push further, but every single prospect scouting website and scout in general will disagree with you, and so will GMs.

 

If anything, Burrows adds negative value to that deal because of his contract. 

Because I've watched closely to the way McCann plays and I think he has bigger upside than he gets credit for, someone else on here agreed on that. He's said before he models himself after Toews and think what he could do with his skill set if he added 15 pounds. I already pointed out Burrows would make the deal less enticing because of his 4.5 cap and they have to re-sign Perron, McGinn, Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, etc.   At this point Theodore is a top 5 D man who could be just another good skating top four D man in the future, his value is not better than McCann who's a young Center with at least 50 point upside and a veteran winger who could be a 35 point winger again and just needs a change of scenery maybe, who brings big character, leadership and cup run experience, and a decent draft pick. Theodores value is not bigger than that, sorry but that's a stupid thing to say, McCann alone  was also drafted higher.

[Z Hockey]

1 hour ago, McHortanen said:

If Horvat refused to play for us hell yeah I would. Hansen @ 2.5M has a lot more value than say he would if he was getting 4M which he deserves.

 

Burrows cap hit is 3.5M for them since we retain salary. Also we need a D prospect and Burrows' contract off the books, so id totally be down for this trade.

 

Wasnt Fox just basically loaned to them to get AHL playing time?

 

We trade that 2017 1st for the 2nd to grab Sean Day. Thats if he falls that far.

 

 

You are legally insane if you would trade Horvat for a D man exiting his prime, a forward who had a career high 20 goals also in his prime exiting year, a playmaking Center who maybe will turn into a 40 point guy who regardless you could have grabbed on waivers, and a mid round pick. We're not trading McCann unless it's in a BIG trade maybe for a D man like Shattenkirk, and still Burrows cap hit affects that trade, Anaheim has way too many other important pieces to re-sign, go and check.  And pay attention to details,

Fox was traded to Carolina for future considerations, he's a Hurricane. There was a (separate) deal as an AHL "transaction" that sent Blair Jones to Charlotte for T.J.Hensick to Utica, it was for the AHL teams. Since both players are on NHL contracts the trade had to be made by Benning and Francis. Teams do that when they're trying to help their farm team out, B. Jones is still a Canuck,   Hensick is still a Hurricane, they just swapped AHL clubs.  The other trade was seperate, Fox is now a Hurricane, we will likely get a draft pick in return.    And it doesn't matter who you're drafting, if you move down in the draft, you should get another pick as well,

San Jose moved down the other year to draft Nikolay Goldobin, they traded the 18th overall to Detroit for a lower first rounder and another pick.

[Blue Jay 22]

6 hours ago, Z Hockey said:

Because I've watched closely to the way McCann plays and I think he has bigger upside than he gets credit for, someone else on here agreed on that. He's said before he models himself after Toews and think what he could do with his skill set if he added 15 pounds. I already pointed out Burrows would make the deal less enticing because of his 4.5 cap and they have to re-sign Perron, McGinn, Lindholm, Vatanen, Andersen, etc.   At this point Theodore is a top 5 D man who could be just another good skating top four D man in the future, his value is not better than McCann who's a young Center with at least 50 point upside and a veteran winger who could be a 35 point winger again and just needs a change of scenery maybe, who brings big character, leadership and cup run experience, and a decent draft pick. Theodores value is not bigger than that, sorry but that's a stupid thing to say, McCann alone  was also drafted higher.

Guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree then. 

[elvis15]

12 hours ago, McHortanen said:

CANUCKS 2016 OFFSEASON

Lets say come draft day we dont win the lottery and we get the 8th pick. We draft Chychrun or Bean, but Chychrun will most likely be off the board so Bean it is. Now lets get to the trades.

 

TO TBL

EDLER

HANSEN

VEY

3rd/4th

 

TO VAN

DROUIN

...

I am not going to read the rest of that if that's how you start. That's a disgusting overpayment for basically a rookie player asking out from the team that drafted him.