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NHL'er

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I've always been wary of starting new threads but this has been an idea floating around in my mind and I think it's the important key between a vicious cycle of losing (e.g Edmonton Oilers) and a continuously successful hockey club (e.g. Detroit Red Wings). You'll find this theme throughout this long and tortuous post of mine and also what I believe (or at least hope) is Benning's plan for next season. 

 

Contrary to what other posters think, I simply do not believe we can let the kids run with this team next year; we need  insulation from solid veterans via UFA. Am I advocating for long and deadweight contracts? No. Am I saying that we should go aggressively after bona fide forwards even at an overpaid price if it doesn't saddle us long-term? Absolutely. I am all on board with #teamtank as far as this season goes and only this season but there is a cost to tanking and losing and if you don't keep this in mind, this organisation will be in for a long decade of losing. 

 

I don't want to turn this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread but we need to put our players in a position to succeed. So when people ask why isn't this team scoring? I think the answer to that is in the (rhetorical) question: how many legitimate top 6 forwards do we really have? Well, frankly, beyond the Sedins, no one really. Perhaps Vrbata once upon a time but that ship has sailed. Sutter, we've never really found out. Hansen, is realistically an excellent third line winger.

 

This brings me back to my point: if we want to develop eventual Cup Contenders, we need to stay competitive even whilst we are restocking our cupboards. This means easing our future core into the league, not throwing them into the fire. This means playing players in their appropriate roles and not expecting them to be a 30 goal scorer when they aren't.


What does this mean for our roster next season? We need to send Jake and Jared down to Utica even if only for part of next season. I'm no professional scout but it's clear that that consistency, that ability to compete (whether it be making hockey plays or winning puck battles) simply isn't there on a nightly basis. Unless they come into camp entirely different players, this firmly remains my opinion. Keep in mind these are two 19 year old kids who otherwise might be freshmen in college. It's hard and perfectly normal to be figuring things out at this age.

 

Without turning this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread, these are the ideal positions and holes that need to be filled.

Sedin-Sedin-UFA

(Rodin)/ UFA -Sutter-DRAFT

Baerstchi-Horvat-Hansen

Gaunce-Granlund-Dorsett 

 

Sure injuries happened this season and the original plans were entirely derailed, but we can't depart from the plan due to a hiccup. How do we address this next season? Well we certainly need more depth for starters and playing players in the right role. I am personally not against bringing back Vey and Etem so far as Willie understands where to play them - (being either in the minors or in the bottom 6 in case of injuries). Whether Willie has enough fire and will to win is a different issue but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

Having a top draft pick this year will certainly help our long term success. Without contradicting what I've just said, do I believe one of the Finns (assuming we draft 2-3) can immediately step in without hurting their development and our team? For sure. Certain elite propsects have that combination of skill and and physicality that most prospects don't: they are exceptions, not the norm. This brings things to a wrap as I need to get back to real work, but I desperately want people to remember the purpose of tanking in the first place: 

 

nhl-stanley-cup-final-tampa-bay-lightnin

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, NHL'er said:

I've always been wary of starting new threads but this has been an idea floating around in my mind and I think it's the important key between a vicious cycle of losing (e.g Edmonton Oilers) and a continuously successful hockey club (e.g. Detroit Red Wings). You'll find this theme throughout this long and tortuous post of mine and also what I believe (or at least hope) is Benning's plan for next season. 

 

Contrary to what other posters think, I simply do not believe we can let the kids run with this team next year; we need  insulation from solid veterans via UFA. Am I advocating for long and deadweight contracts? No. Am I saying that we should go aggressively after bona fide forwards even at an overpaid price if it doesn't saddle us long-term? Absolutely. I am all on board with #teamtank as far as this season goes and only this season but there is a cost to tanking and losing and if you don't keep this in mind, this organisation will be in for a long decade of losing. 

 

I don't want to turn this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread but we need to put our players in a position to succeed. So when people ask why isn't this team scoring? I think the answer to that is in the (rhetorical) question: how many legitimate top 6 forwards do we really have? Well, frankly, beyond the Sedins, no one really. Perhaps Vrbata once upon a time but that ship has sailed. Sutter, we've never really found out. Hansen, is realistically an excellent third line winger.

 

This brings me back to my point: if we want to develop eventual Cup Contenders, we need to stay competitive even whilst we are restocking our cupboards. This means easing our future core into the league, not throwing them into the fire. This means playing players in their appropriate roles and not expecting them to be a 30 goal scorer when they aren't.


What does this mean for our roster next season? We need to send Jake and Jared down to Utica even if only for part of next season. I'm no professional scout but it's clear that that consistency, that ability to compete (whether it be making hockey plays or winning puck battles) simply isn't there on a nightly basis. Unless they come into camp entirely different players, this firmly remains my opinion. Keep in mind these are two 19 year old kids who otherwise might be freshmen in college. It's hard and perfectly normal to be figuring things out at this age.

 

Without turning this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread, these are the ideal positions and holes that need to be filled.

Sedin-Sedin-UFA

(Rodin)/ UFA -Sutter-DRAFT

Baerstchi-Horvat-Hansen

Gaunce-Granlund-Dorsett 

 

Sure injuries happened this season and the original plans were entirely derailed, but we can't depart from the plan due to a hiccup. How do we address this next season? Well we certainly need more depth for starters and playing players in the right role. I am personally not against bringing back Vey and Etem so far as Willie understands where to play them - (being either in the minors or in the bottom 6 in case of injuries). Whether Willie has enough fire and will to win is a different issue but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

Having a top draft pick this year will certainly help our long term success. Without contradicting what I've just said, do I believe one of the Finns (assuming we draft 2-3) can immediately step in without hurting their development and our team? For sure. Certain elite propsects have that combination of skill and and physicality that most prospects don't: they are exceptions, not the norm. This brings things to a wrap as I need to get back to real work, but I desperately want people to remember the purpose of tanking in the first place: 

 

nhl-stanley-cup-final-tampa-bay-lightnin

 

 

PS - Anyone looking for a guest blogger hit me up. 

 

 

 

 

I enjoyed every minute of reading that. +100 to you sir. Very well thought out and I agree 100% with everything you said. Am I on CDC? Lol

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Second line =draft pick is guna take that next year ? Not so sure that's a good idea bro ( or bro ette). Word  is Rodin was signed because the Sedins wanted him. They won't put a draft pick ahead of guys like McCann or Virtanen on the second, and they shouldn't. U think another 18 year old with zero experience is guna take that spot and do better ? I don't care how high we pick , that would kill virtanen or Mccans development. There are some holes in ur logic.

 

Good read though. Cheers. 

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29 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

Second line =draft pick is guna take that next year ? Not so sure that's a good idea bro ( or bro ette). Word  is Rodin was signed because the Sedins wanted him. They won't put a draft pick ahead of guys like McCann or Virtanen on the second, and they shouldn't. U think another 18 year old with zero experience is guna take that spot and do better ? I don't care how high we pick , that would kill virtanen or Mccans development. There are some holes in ur logic.

That's perfectly valid criticism and Rodin may well make the team - I'm just not sure since I haven't seen him. McCann and Virtanen's egos may well take a blow but if they aren't ready, they just aren't ready.

 

RE: Puljujarvi and Laine. From what I've read, those two are going to be very special players and usher in a new era of Finnish hockey domination. From The Hockey Writers: 

Quote

What Puljujarvi did at World Juniors was astonishing. His 17 points in seven games was record-setting and helped him become the youngest player to be named MVP of the tournament. He posted more points than any U18 player besides Jaromir Jagr in 1990.

 

29 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

Good read though. Cheers. 

Cheers!

 

37 minutes ago, desiboynux4lifee******* said:

interesting, what about defence? 

That's another can of worms I'll need to think about! But certainly the general argument of playing younger players only when they are ready still applies.

 

33 minutes ago, McHortanen said:

I enjoyed every minute of reading that. +100 to you sir. Very well thought out and I agree 100% with everything you said. Am I on CDC? Lol

Thanks! 

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8 minutes ago, NHL'er said:

That's perfectly valid criticism and Rodin may well make the team - I'm just not sure since I haven't seen him. McCann and Virtanen's egos may well take a blow but if they aren't ready, they just aren't ready.

 

RE: Puljujarvi and Laine. From what I've read, those two are going to be very special players and usher in a new era of Finnish hockey domination. From The Hockey Writers: 

 

Cheers!

 

That's another can of worms I'll need to think about! But certainly the general argument of playing younger players only when they are ready still applies.

 

Thanks! 

Ya true enough I suppose. Not sayin a pick couldn't make it, but junior success at any level doesn't nessesarily translate. Everyone said the same thing about drisytle and the bolts big pick - drouin. We all know how those two guys turned out for their first NHL stints. They were not ready , and in drouins case , still aren't. 

 

Virtanen or McCann haven't had bad years. They are doing just fine. I guess we will have to see what happens 

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2 hours ago, NHL'er said:

I've always been wary of starting new threads but this has been an idea floating around in my mind and I think it's the important key between a vicious cycle of losing (e.g Edmonton Oilers) and a continuously successful hockey club (e.g. Detroit Red Wings). You'll find this theme throughout this long and tortuous post of mine and also what I believe (or at least hope) is Benning's plan for next season. 

 

Contrary to what other posters think, I simply do not believe we can let the kids run with this team next year; we need  insulation from solid veterans via UFA. Am I advocating for long and deadweight contracts? No. Am I saying that we should go aggressively after bona fide forwards even at an overpaid price if it doesn't saddle us long-term? Absolutely. I am all on board with #teamtank as far as this season goes and only this season but there is a cost to tanking and losing and if you don't keep this in mind, this organisation will be in for a long decade of losing. 

 

I don't want to turn this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread but we need to put our players in a position to succeed. So when people ask why isn't this team scoring? I think the answer to that is in the (rhetorical) question: how many legitimate top 6 forwards do we really have? Well, frankly, beyond the Sedins, no one really. Perhaps Vrbata once upon a time but that ship has sailed. Sutter, we've never really found out. Hansen, is realistically an excellent third line winger.

 

This brings me back to my point: if we want to develop eventual Cup Contenders, we need to stay competitive even whilst we are restocking our cupboards. This means easing our future core into the league, not throwing them into the fire. This means playing players in their appropriate roles and not expecting them to be a 30 goal scorer when they aren't.


What does this mean for our roster next season? We need to send Jake and Jared down to Utica even if only for part of next season. I'm no professional scout but it's clear that that consistency, that ability to compete (whether it be making hockey plays or winning puck battles) simply isn't there on a nightly basis. Unless they come into camp entirely different players, this firmly remains my opinion. Keep in mind these are two 19 year old kids who otherwise might be freshmen in college. It's hard and perfectly normal to be figuring things out at this age.

 

Without turning this into a Proposal and Armchair GM thread, these are the ideal positions and holes that need to be filled.

Sedin-Sedin-UFA

(Rodin)/ UFA -Sutter-DRAFT

Baerstchi-Horvat-Hansen

Gaunce-Granlund-Dorsett 

 

Sure injuries happened this season and the original plans were entirely derailed, but we can't depart from the plan due to a hiccup. How do we address this next season? Well we certainly need more depth for starters and playing players in the right role. I am personally not against bringing back Vey and Etem so far as Willie understands where to play them - (being either in the minors or in the bottom 6 in case of injuries). Whether Willie has enough fire and will to win is a different issue but for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

Having a top draft pick this year will certainly help our long term success. Without contradicting what I've just said, do I believe one of the Finns (assuming we draft 2-3) can immediately step in without hurting their development and our team? For sure. Certain elite propsects have that combination of skill and and physicality that most prospects don't: they are exceptions, not the norm. This brings things to a wrap as I need to get back to real work, but I desperately want people to remember the purpose of tanking in the first place: 

 

nhl-stanley-cup-final-tampa-bay-lightnin

 

 

 

 

 

 

maxresdefault.jpg

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45 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

Jesse and Patrik are already playing pro and are even more highly touted than Draisaitl was and they are already better players than both Jared and Jake I am sure of it.  Draisaitl was tossed in to that tire fire in Edmonton so not really the best example.  They are the masters of ruining players.

But even then, Draisaitl and Hall dominated together for a good stretch of time. I'd prefer Laine to Puljujärvi simply because we're shallow on LW prospects but if we got Puljujärvi I'd be just as happy. 

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I totally agree with the OP and coincidentally have just written a post along the same lines on the PGT before coming here.

 

Honestly I am now beginning to question the average age on here or whether many of CDC play any regular team sport at all.

Losing, constant losing, is not done in a vacuum. Along with the losses comes the individual loss of confidence, the defraying of team spirit, disconnects between team mates and players and coaches. All these things are cumulative and hard to rebuild.

 

When your team is packed with rookies these failures become even more insidious because they have no back reference of experience to relate to and many will quickly start to feel out of their depth and that is the real danger of our situation. The harm this may be doing to the development of these young boys.

 

I appreciate that this was not the way it was meant to happen and I honestly think given an even break on injuries and the form of a couple of our vets we would now be in a playoff place.

 

But losing is like a disease and once it takes hold it is hard to shake off. Hopefully next season we will have reinforced the team with some experienced and quality UFAs and we will get back on track with maybe Hutton, Tryamkin, Bo, Baertschi, Gaunce and possibly Grenier being the only rookies going forward with the rest getting further development in Utica.

Personally I would now consider Granlund, Etem and sadly Vey to be surplus and to join Bartowski and Weber  in either Utica or better still elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I totally agree with the OP and coincidentally have just written a post along the same lines on the PGT before coming here.

 

Honestly I am now beginning to question the average age on here or whether many of CDC play any regular team sport at all.

Losing, constant losing, is not done in a vacuum. Along with the losses comes the individual loss of confidence, the defraying of team spirit, disconnects between team mates and players and coaches. All these things are cumulative and hard to rebuild.

 

When your team is packed with rookies these failures become even more insidious because they have no back reference of experience to relate to and many will quickly start to feel out of their depth and that is the real danger of our situation. The harm this may be doing to the development of these young boys.

 

I appreciate that this was not the way it was meant to happen and I honestly think given an even break on injuries and the form of a couple of our vets we would now be in a playoff place.

 

But losing is like a disease and once it takes hold it is hard to shake off. Hopefully next season we will have reinforced the team with some experienced and quality UFAs and we will get back on track with maybe Hutton, Tryamkin, Bo, Baertschi, Gaunce and possibly Grenier being the only rookies going forward with the rest getting further development in Utica.

Personally I would now consider Granlund, Etem and sadly Vey to be surplus and to join Bartowski and Weber  in either Utica or better still elsewhere.

Sometime you got to hit rock bottom before becoming a champion. Look at the MIghty Ducks, Tampa Bay Rays, and that dude from that MMA movie warrior. Its the nutural circle of life

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Just now, highanxiety said:

Sometime you got to hit rock bottom before becoming a champion. Look at the MIghty Ducks, Tampa Bay Rays, and that dude from that MMA movie warrior. Its the nutural circle of life

I agree but the secret is to realise why it is you are there and to make sure you take appropriate action to severely limit the length of time you are there for.

The Oiler's problem was they didn't identify why they remained at the bottom. 

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Letting the kids run the show isn't what will happen or what Benning and co. are planning to do.

 

They will sign some insurance players in FA this year and I wonder if they will do what the leafs did last offseason and make some smart cheap signings that they could potentially turn into draft picks at trade deadline if the playoffs are out of question.

 

Benning seems to love competition for spots and if that is telling of anything we will see some new faces at training camp after the summer. 

 

Very interesting summer ahead, exciting times! 

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1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

I totally agree with the OP and coincidentally have just written a post along the same lines on the PGT before coming here.

 

Honestly I am now beginning to question the average age on here or whether many of CDC play any regular team sport at all.

Losing, constant losing, is not done in a vacuum. Along with the losses comes the individual loss of confidence, the defraying of team spirit, disconnects between team mates and players and coaches. All these things are cumulative and hard to rebuild.

 

When your team is packed with rookies these failures become even more insidious because they have no back reference of experience to relate to and many will quickly start to feel out of their depth and that is the real danger of our situation. The harm this may be doing to the development of these young boys.

 

I appreciate that this was not the way it was meant to happen and I honestly think given an even break on injuries and the form of a couple of our vets we would now be in a playoff place.

 

But losing is like a disease and once it takes hold it is hard to shake off. Hopefully next season we will have reinforced the team with some experienced and quality UFAs and we will get back on track with maybe Hutton, Tryamkin, Bo, Baertschi, Gaunce and possibly Grenier being the only rookies going forward with the rest getting further development in Utica.

Personally I would now consider Granlund, Etem and sadly Vey to be surplus and to join Bartowski and Weber  in either Utica or better still elsewhere.

Honestly, I don't know how you can put Grandlund with those others, He is a very smart hockey player and will be in the NHL for along time. How many games did you see him play? Wow..... stupid ppl on here.

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2 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

Letting the kids run the show isn't what will happen or what Benning and co. are planning to do.

 

They will sign some insurance players in FA this year and I wonder if they will do what the leafs did last offseason and make some smart cheap signings that they could potentially turn into draft picks at trade deadline if the playoffs are out of question.

 

Benning seems to love competition for spots and if that is telling of anything we will see some new faces at training camp after the summer. 

 

Very interesting summer ahead, exciting times! 

The problem is that the competition is basically for 3rd 4th line. At the moment there is really not a valid 2nd line either. There seems to be 12 interchangeable parts with no noticeable difference in quality/outcome. Hoping for a top end draft pick and a good signing or two to remain competitive assuming injury is the culprit this season.

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McCann's biggest need is strength and confidence.  His skill level is there and you see the potential almost nightly.  The problem is he can't stay on his feet all that well and can't fight for pucks along the boards.  Virtanen on the other hand is already sized well, but needs some experience to learn all the tricks to win the puck and get to the right spot.  I think he's ok to stay up next year.  McCann will be dependent on what he can do in the off season to put on some muscle.  I remember the Sedin's first couple of years getting knocked down every night and losing puck battles.  It took them a few years to do it, but they made do with 3rd line time and worked hard to get tough enough and experienced enough to dominate the puck battles. 

 

An interesting question is what we do if we get Mathews.  Second line center?  Then where do Sutter and Bo fit in?  Sutter on wing with the twins or with Mathews?  I think it would be a good problem to have.

 

If you look at the devopement of the Canucks over the decades, you see the rhythm.  We build a contender, they get a run, then decline and eventually rebuild.  Being a Canucks fan (and I've been one since the year one when we went 24 46 8) you know the drill.  We've had a nice run with the West Coast Express and then the Sedins in succession and here's hoping we don't have too many 'rebuilding' years before we're ready for another run.  I'm pretty excited about the current crop of prospects and the chance to get some more by good drafting.  Benning has at least done a good job in that regard.

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46 minutes ago, groovy said:

The problem is that the competition is basically for 3rd 4th line. At the moment there is really not a valid 2nd line either. There seems to be 12 interchangeable parts with no noticeable difference in quality/outcome. Hoping for a top end draft pick and a good signing or two to remain competitive assuming injury is the culprit this season.

Excellent points.  We really don't have a second line even healthy this year.  Bo and Sutter are both really 3rd liners who can step up.  Bo was saddled with Vrbata for much of the year.  Bo might be developing into a 2nd line center, but only time (and appropriate line mates) will tell.  Unfortunately, over the next couple of years we have to start thinking about a first line as the Sedins are getting a bit long in the tooth.  I'd say one more year of first line, maybe one more after that if we get lucky.  If we're going to talk about a long term plan for success (thread title) then being in the race next year could potentially be counter productive.

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28 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

McCann's biggest need is strength and confidence.  His skill level is there and you see the potential almost nightly.  The problem is he can't stay on his feet all that well and can't fight for pucks along the boards.  Virtanen on the other hand is already sized well, but needs some experience to learn all the tricks to win the puck and get to the right spot.  I think he's ok to stay up next year.  McCann will be dependent on what he can do in the off season to put on some muscle.  I remember the Sedin's first couple of years getting knocked down every night and losing puck battles.  It took them a few years to do it, but they made do with 3rd line time and worked hard to get tough enough and experienced enough to dominate the puck battles. 

 

An interesting question is what we do if we get Mathews.  Second line center?  Then where do Sutter and Bo fit in?  Sutter on wing with the twins or with Mathews?  I think it would be a good problem to have.

 

If you look at the devopement of the Canucks over the decades, you see the rhythm.  We build a contender, they get a run, then decline and eventually rebuild.  Being a Canucks fan (and I've been one since the year one when we went 24 46 8) you know the drill.  We've had a nice run with the West Coast Express and then the Sedins in succession and here's hoping we don't have too many 'rebuilding' years before we're ready for another run.  I'm pretty excited about the current crop of prospects and the chance to get some more by good drafting.  Benning has at least done a good job in that regard.

Probably send him down to become a 200' player. Won't be good enough for the PP, Vey takes that spot. Not good enough defensively.

 

Kidding, it may be that WD has the same problem AV had at first, how to deal with "elite" talent. AV's first years were all about "dump and pray" type hockey, hit the red line, give the puck to the other team and then all skate back and get the puck after the goalie stops it, repeat. Count on the PP to score and then defend any lead at any time in the game. AV's early years were filled with lopsided shot totals.

 

IMHO, if Mathews, the Nucks ........trade him....Lindros was worth 6 1rst's..........Arizona?....Local boy, franchise player, marketing dream putting his value way over the top, for Domi, Strome, exchange 2016 1 rst's (dependant on a top 3 pick) , 2017 1rst and OEL. Maybe throw in Sbisa, Fedun and a couple 2nd round picks and retain salary. Domi with Horvat, didn't they play together in junior? Instant chemistry? McCann, Baertschi and a pick for Drouin

 

Fantasy Island stuff for sure;

 

Equal ice time

 

Sedin - Sedin - Lucic

Domi - Horvat - Laine/Pujarvi(?)

Hansen - Sutter - Virtanen

Guance/Drouin - Strome - Dorsett

 

OEL - Edler

Tanev - Tryamkin

Hutton - Pedan

Biega - Bartowski

Weber

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16 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

McCann's biggest need is strength and confidence.  His skill level is there and you see the potential almost nightly.  The problem is he can't stay on his feet all that well and can't fight for pucks along the boards.  Virtanen on the other hand is already sized well, but needs some experience to learn all the tricks to win the puck and get to the right spot.  I think he's ok to stay up next year.  McCann will be dependent on what he can do in the off season to put on some muscle.  I remember the Sedin's first couple of years getting knocked down every night and losing puck battles.  It took them a few years to do it, but they made do with 3rd line time and worked hard to get tough enough and experienced enough to dominate the puck battles. 

 

An interesting question is what we do if we get Mathews.  Second line center?  Then where do Sutter and Bo fit in?  Sutter on wing with the twins or with Mathews?  I think it would be a good problem to have.

 

If you look at the devopement of the Canucks over the decades, you see the rhythm.  We build a contender, they get a run, then decline and eventually rebuild.  Being a Canucks fan (and I've been one since the year one when we went 24 46 8) you know the drill.  We've had a nice run with the West Coast Express and then the Sedins in succession and here's hoping we don't have too many 'rebuilding' years before we're ready for another run.  I'm pretty excited about the current crop of prospects and the chance to get some more by good drafting.  Benning has at least done a good job in that regard.

good post

I think we can't underestimate the value of the right mix of veterans, too many cdcers are loading the team and bottom 6 will so many young forwards.

 

If we get Matthews, I would sign (in this order) one of : Lucic, Ladd, Backes, Ericsson

 

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Lucic Matthews Sutter

Bartschi Horvat Virtanen

Gaunce Granlund Dorsette

 

Rodin

 

Burrows will probably get bought out

 

Then I would trade and this may sting a little,

 

2017st + Mcann + sbisa for Shattenkirk 

 

Edler Tanev

Hutton Shattenkirk

Hamhuis Tramkin

 

Pedan

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3 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

Honestly, I don't know how you can put Grandlund with those others, He is a very smart hockey player and will be in the NHL for along time. How many games did you see him play? Wow..... stupid ppl on here.

I based it on having too many "mid quality" lightweight, low physicality players in the team. Imo we need to break the cycle of this team and get bigger, more physical and more deadly.

He is not 1st line, 2nd line, or 3rd line on this team and he is too "small" for the 4th line.

 

It seems to me it is people like you who are too stupid to realise that if we are going to change this team into a playoff team it will not be players like Granlund who will help us accomplish it. I would rather have Vey or Vbrata to Granlund and I don't see a place for either in the team going forward.

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