[Discussion] Stammer/Twins..would U?

[Nuxfanabroad]

Just a guess, but I have a feeling the twins might like to go to a competitive team. Perhaps what they've publicly stated(remaining Canucks), is beginning to wane?

 

So criticize & tell me, "it won't happen!"..fine, okay.

 

For whoever else cares to answer, I propose the following hypothetical scenario, simply being CURIOUS as to how many Van fans would do this?

 

Assume our GM is allowed to agree with SS on contract,(5 x 10.5 mill), pre-trade.

 

We send: Twins, Edler. Retain 3 mill on 1 twin, thus 16 mill AAV cap-hit to TBay.

 

TBay sends: Stamkos, Matt Carle, Alex Killorn(RFA). We'd likely be taking on 22~23 mill in AAV. 10.5, + 5.5, + 3 mill retained, + Killorn's next signing.

 

Contributing factors:

-Assuming Yzerman can't find the space, to retain Stammer(Kucherov/Hedman up next to sign). After 2 yrs of the twins, they'd have a tonne of cap to play with. This gives them a competitive window, & then a chance to reload quickly. They can also deal Drouin for offensive adds.

 

-Hedman from the twins hometown. With Stralman & Edler, they'd likely form a tight-knit crew.

 

-TBay would likely prefer dumping Carle(& his 5.5), switching him for Edler.. is what helps us land Stammer.

 

-We could focus our search for D, & another sniping winger. Personally I have more faith in Laine, than Matthews.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Just a guess, but I have a feeling the twins might like to go to a competitive team. Perhaps what they've publicly stated(remaining Canucks), is beginning to wane?

 

So criticize & tell me, "it won't happen!"..fine, okay.

 

For whoever else cares to answer, I propose the following hypothetical scenario, simply being CURIOUS as to how many Van fans would do this?

 

Assume our GM is allowed to agree with SS on contract,(5 x 10.5 mill), pre-trade.

 

We send: Twins, Edler. Retain 3 mill on 1 twin, thus 16 mill AAV cap-hit to TBay.

 

TBay sends: Stamkos, Matt Carle, Alex Killorn(RFA). We'd likely be taking on 22~23 mill in AAV. 10.5, + 5.5, + 3 mill retained, + Killorn's next signing.

 

Contributing factors:

-Assuming Yzerman can't find the space, to retain Stammer(Kucherov/Hedman up next to sign). After 2 yrs of the twins, they'd have a tonne of cap to play with. This gives them a competitive window, & then a chance to reload quickly. They can also deal Drouin for offensive adds.

 

-Hedman from the twins hometown. With Stralman & Edler, they'd likely form a tight-knit crew.

 

-TBay would likely prefer dumping Carle(& his 5.5), switching him for Edler.. is what helps us land Stammer.

 

-We could focus our search for D, & another sniping winger. Personally I have more faith in Laine, than Matthews.

Why are we trading anything for a COMING UFA? 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Just now, Alflives said:

Why are we trading anything for a COMING UFA? 

Because he accepts our 10.5 mill offer(pre-trade), after clearing that cap-amount(twins to TBay).

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Because he accepts our 10.5 mill offer(pre-trade), after clearing that cap-amount(twins to TBay).

I get your concept, but we cannot negotiate, or even talk to a player while he is under contract to another team.  The trade must come first.  So, why would we give up so much just for the right to talk to a coming UFA?  Usually that right costs a mid level pick, like a fourth.  Hammer's negotiation rights were first traded from Nashville to the Islanders, and then on to us.  But the compensation was mid round picks, because you are not allowed to talk to the player before.  

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I get your concept, but we cannot negotiate, or even talk to a player while he is under contract to another team.  The trade must come first.  So, why would we give up so much just for the right to talk to a coming UFA?  Usually that right costs a mid level pick, like a fourth.  Hammer's negotiation rights were first traded from Nashville to the Islanders, and then on to us.  But the compensation was mid round picks, because you are not allowed to talk to the player before.  

After their season ends(bounced say, 2nd round) couldn't we swing this, just prior to the draft? Would it not be possible after the Finals?

[Green Building]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I get your concept, but we cannot negotiate, or even talk to a player while he is under contract to another team.  The trade must come first.  So, why would we give up so much just for the right to talk to a coming UFA?  Usually that right costs a mid level pick, like a fourth.  Hammer's negotiation rights were first traded from Nashville to the Islanders, and then on to us.  But the compensation was mid round picks, because you are not allowed to talk to the player before.  

We can if we get permission to speak with his agent. Still though, it is very unlikely to happen.

[elvis15]

14 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Because he accepts our 10.5 mill offer(pre-trade), after clearing that cap-amount(twins to TBay).

Is the only reason he accepts our contract offer because we traded for his rights? Or would he have accepted that offer regardless, in which case why are we trading anything for him?

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 hours ago, elvis15 said:

Is the only reason he accepts our contract offer because we traded for his rights? Or would he have accepted that offer regardless, in which case why are we trading anything for him?

It's a good question Elvis. Have to agree, it's all pretty darn unlikely..but our squad would sure get younger, & competitive in another yr or two.

 

UFA..Stamkos..Laine

Killorn..Sutter..Virtanen

Baerschti..Bo..Hansen

Gaunce..Zalewski..Dorsett

 

xtra's: Etem, Kenins/Grenier

McCann gets a yr of AHL, & possibly Virt too. Higgy buyout; Burr becomes Comets leader.

 

Looks strange to see a fwd lineup, without the twins. Avg age here must be about 24 or 25?

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

It's a good question Elvis. Have to agree, it's all pretty darn unlikely..but our squad would sure get younger, & competitive in another yr or two.

 

LUCIC..Stamkos..Pulliarvi

Killorn..Sutter..Virtanen

Baerschti..Bo..Hansen

Gaunce..Zalewski..Dorsett

 

xtra's: Etem, Kenins/Grenier

McCann gets a yr of AHL, & possibly Virt too. Higgy buyout; Burr becomes Comets leader.

 

Looks strange to see a fwd lineup, without the twins. Avg age here must be about 24 or 25?

Here's your UFA, and the correct Finn of the two. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Here's your UFA, and the correct Finn of the two. 

What'd ya Pull that outa' your hat? Pull over to the HOV(happily open t'Vancouver) Laine. 

 & Do we really need that angry ogre?! Hmm, maybe we do.. :^)

[cripplereh]

Stamkos will never come here to a rebuilding team!!!He will want to go play for a contender for a year or two,then sign long term sorta like Hossa did!

[Pears]

10 hours ago, cripplereh said:

Stamkos will never come here to a rebuilding team!!!He will want to go play for a contender for a year or two,then sign long term sorta like Hossa did!

How many teams can say "You can play with the Sedins?"

[goblix]

On April 1, 2016 at 2:37 PM, cripplereh said:

Stamkos will never come here to a rebuilding team!!!He will want to go play for a contender for a year or two,then sign long term sorta like Hossa did!

What contender has cap space for 10 - 10.5m ? Especially when the cap isn't going up or up by much

[elvis15]

12 hours ago, goblix said:

What contender has cap space for 10 - 10.5m ? Especially when the cap isn't going up or up by much

How many teams had the cap space for $7.45M back in 2008/09? Yet that's what Detroit signed Hossa to for a single year before losing him to Chicago in free agency (when he signed one of the first front loaded, back diving contracts now covered under the cap recapture rule). And that was a discount.

 

Stamko's near max contract coming this summer could be similar, he can take less on a short term deal to go to a team he thinks can win. That won't be us of course, and the cap being what it is will limit those options a bit, but it's a possibility still and I wouldn't rule it out.

 

It is more likely he signs a multi-year deal though with someone. A number of teams could make moves to bring him in, but they'd want a commitment if they did so rather than moving key pieces out only to lose Stammer in a year. His recent blood clot issue will scare some people away from such a commitment (and probably help him lean to the security of the multi-year deal as well), but there will still be teams willing to give it a shot and pay a lot for the privilege.

[goblix]

14 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

How many teams had the cap space for $7.45M back in 2008/09? Yet that's what Detroit signed Hossa to for a single year before losing him to Chicago in free agency (when he signed one of the first front loaded, back diving contracts now covered under the cap recapture rule). And that was a discount.

 

Stamko's near max contract coming this summer could be similar, he can take less on a short term deal to go to a team he thinks can win. That won't be us of course, and the cap being what it is will limit those options a bit, but it's a possibility still and I wouldn't rule it out.

 

It is more likely he signs a multi-year deal though with someone. A number of teams could make moves to bring him in, but they'd want a commitment if they did so rather than moving key pieces out only to lose Stammer in a year. His recent blood clot issue will scare some people away from such a commitment (and probably help him lean to the security of the multi-year deal as well), but there will still be teams willing to give it a shot and pay a lot for the privilege.

But why bother signing a 1 year deal with a random contending team when you have a contending team in tampa already... if he's going to sign a 1 year deal its going to be in Tampa...

 

if he's leaving it's going to be for money and term, his agency will be in his ear maximizing his financial gains as well. Endorsement deals will be also big in big city markets like Toronto and Montreal.

[Gurn]

On April 1, 2016 at 7:29 PM, Alflives said:

I get your concept, but we cannot negotiate, or even talk to a player while he is under contract to another team.  The trade must come first.  So, why would we give up so much just for the right to talk to a coming UFA?  Usually that right costs a mid level pick, like a fourth.  Hammer's negotiation rights were first traded from Nashville to the Islanders, and then on to us.  But the compensation was mid round picks, because you are not allowed to talk to the player before.

iirc Hamhuis was a complete free agent when he signed with the Canucks. His rights were traded several times but he would not sign with those teams.

[clam linguine]

To simplify...if we traded twins and we eat 3 million for Stamkos.  It comes out as a two for one swap straight across. I like it...but wouldn't Tbay just pay Stamkos?  They probably aren't worried about Hedman yet.

 

Are we helping them by taking Carle and Killorn for Edler?

 

I like the trade for us. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 hours ago, clam linguine said:

To simplify...if we traded twins and we eat 3 million for Stamkos.  It comes out as a two for one swap straight across. I like it...but wouldn't Tbay just pay Stamkos?  They probably aren't worried about Hedman yet.

 

Are we helping them by taking Carle and Killorn for Edler?

 

I like the trade for us. 

Yeah, heard in the d room, they keep playing Eddie Money's 'Two tickets to Paradise', to subliminally brainwash the twins. A sure clue...

 

Thank you tho, Mr Linguine..It only took about a wk to get my original question(post) answered.  You win a "set of steak knives!"  :^)  ..of course, during that period Stammer's health was somewhat thrown into question, & the drama just won't seem to let up.

 

Really wonder if it makes some GM's reluctant to indulge him $ AND term?

[elvis15]

3 hours ago, goblix said:

But why bother signing a 1 year deal with a random contending team when you have a contending team in tampa already... if he's going to sign a 1 year deal its going to be in Tampa...

 

if he's leaving it's going to be for money and term, his agency will be in his ear maximizing his financial gains as well. Endorsement deals will be also big in big city markets like Toronto and Montreal.

Kinda like how Hossa chose to sign that one year deal with Pittsburgh after being moved there? Oh wait, it was Detroit, who he signed with just after playing in Pittsburgh and before moving on to a long term deal in Chicago. Again, he left because he felt that gave him the best chance to win, and it backfired since the team he played with the previous year was the team to win!

 

But there's something rotten in Tampa where Stamkos clearly wants a change. There's rumours about something with the coach, that he's playing wing but prefers center, etc. They've struggled this year so I doubt he'd even consider one more year there as his best option to win the cup.

[goblix]

37 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Kinda like how Hossa chose to sign that one year deal with Pittsburgh after being moved there? Oh wait, it was Detroit, who he signed with just after playing in Pittsburgh and before moving on to a long term deal in Chicago. Again, he left because he felt that gave him the best chance to win, and it backfired since the team he played with the previous year was the team to win!

 

But there's something rotten in Tampa where Stamkos clearly wants a change. There's rumours about something with the coach, that he's playing wing but prefers center, etc. They've struggled this year so I doubt he'd even consider one more year there as his best option to win the cup.

Right, I forgot about that, lol what a jab in the face. Quite funny too because Detroit won the cup against Pittsburg when he was on that team, then moves over to Detroit and proceeds to lose to Pittsburg in the cup final.

 

Anyways I agree with the last part, cooper seems set to make Stamkos a winger but he want's to play centre. I'm assuming that the cap isn't going up by a whole lot next year so I really can't think of any contending team able to spend even the "low cost" Stamkos money. No matter what I'd think he's getting 8m if he does the Hossa type thing.